Bob Lipinski Posted March 6, 2007 Share Posted March 6, 2007 WHat does anyone think? http://www.powerandbulk.com/ushandstrength/id8.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mac Posted March 6, 2007 Share Posted March 6, 2007 Good place to start Bob. Would personally prefer all 5 events to be standardised (as I have said before) but this is not the place to get into that again. I think we have to accept that this sport is not going to come into the world fully developed on the international level - it's OK for the rules to change etc as the years pass as things are found to work or not. We don't need it to be 100% perfect for it to be workable. If the Swedish guys find some rule or process that work's great, then the Brits, then the Germans etc, it's all going to be good overall. In fact, if anything, a sport that changes is more likely to be a in healthy state IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin_Arildsson Posted March 6, 2007 Share Posted March 6, 2007 WHat does anyone think?http://www.powerandbulk.com/ushandstrength/id8.html Looks good to me! But i did notice some things. About the world record criteria - open contests. As it is stated on the site it wouldn't be possible to set WRs on contests like the european championship or other big contests where you have to qualify. And the 1hdl. Is the down signal really needed? In the last LGC contests and last years euro, we lifted the bar so both ends were above knee height and then lowered it again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florian Kellersmann Posted March 6, 2007 Share Posted March 6, 2007 WHat does anyone think?http://www.powerandbulk.com/ushandstrength/id8.html Looks good to me! But i did notice some things. About the world record criteria - open contests. As it is stated on the site it wouldn't be possible to set WRs on contests like the european championship or other big contests where you have to qualify. And the 1hdl. Is the down signal really needed? In the last LGC contests and last years euro, we lifted the bar so both ends were above knee height and then lowered it again. Good points, Martin. What means "open contest"? What's with national contests? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin_Arildsson Posted March 6, 2007 Share Posted March 6, 2007 If it is an open contest, it's open for everyone who want to compete in that contest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mac Posted March 6, 2007 Share Posted March 6, 2007 I would think the Europeans would be OK, as though you have to Qualify for them, the Qualifying competitions themselves are open. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jad Posted March 6, 2007 Share Posted March 6, 2007 WHat does anyone think?http://www.powerandbulk.com/ushandstrength/id8.html And the 1hdl. Is the down signal really needed? In the last LGC contests and last years euro, we lifted the bar so both ends were above knee height and then lowered it again. I agree with Martin here and the "motionless" thing is a bit much. How long are you going to hold it there while some judges figures out if there is any motion and makes any decision. IMO, it needs to be motionless enough for you to make the lift. You get too much momentum on that thing and unless you have a monsterous amount of wrist strength, you won't complete the lift anyway. Besides, wrist strength is part of our sport so if you can pull it off, I don't see what the problem is. I think not allowing the FBBC vbar is silly. Unless you control the amount of chalk buildup...and good luck with that, the diameter argument is dead in the water. Their both steel bars with stoppers on the end and when they're coated in chalk. There's no difference because chalk is chalk. It's not like someone takes a micrometer and attempts to control the amount of chalk buildup on the bar before each attempt. Does leaving it at "pinch event" mean that that 2HP DOES NOT have to be included? As far as the last event being " one that primarily tests grip strength". I can already see people not wanting to count records because somebody does a contest with DO bending. Could potentially be a very hot topic. Great effort as usual Bob. Josh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobsterone Posted March 6, 2007 Share Posted March 6, 2007 WHat does anyone think?http://www.powerandbulk.com/ushandstrength/id8.html Looks good to me! But i did notice some things. About the world record criteria - open contests. As it is stated on the site it wouldn't be possible to set WRs on contests like the european championship or other big contests where you have to qualify. And the 1hdl. Is the down signal really needed? In the last LGC contests and last years euro, we lifted the bar so both ends were above knee height and then lowered it again. Yes it is. The one hand deadlift uses Bawla rules and as such has an agreed standard which has been used for 50+ years. Check my video and see how it should be done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikael Siversson Posted March 6, 2007 Share Posted March 6, 2007 (edited) The two brands of vbars do in fact differ significantly in performance. I tested them back to back as well as alternating between the two from one week to another and I consistently pulled more on the FBBC vbar. The difference was about 3-4 %. The build up of chalk on two LGC vbars will vary, mainly based on the average humidity. It is however, better to eliminate one variable out of two than to eliminate none. Unless you have done a similar study, you don't really know what you are talking about. I think not allowing the FBBC vbar is silly. Unless you control the amount of chalk buildup...and good luck with that, the diameter argument is dead in the water. Their both steel bars with stoppers on the end and when they're coated in chalk. There's no difference because chalk is chalk. It's not like someone takes a micrometer and attempts to control the amount of chalk buildup on the bar before each attempt.Josh Edited March 6, 2007 by Mikael Siversson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mac Posted March 6, 2007 Share Posted March 6, 2007 As Steve said, we would probably be best served by trying to stick with well established standards where practical. Without the down signal, the one hand lift becomes more of a "heave-and-pop" contest, if you know what I mean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
climber511 Posted March 6, 2007 Share Posted March 6, 2007 Somewhere on the board Mikael posted the exact type of metric steel used - I know it is available here in the states - I would think a V-bar made of it would (or should) also be satisfactory, and cheaper of course for those of us outside Europe. Metric flat plate and rubber is no doubt also available pretty much world wide - I don't remember seeing the type of steel used posted but David would know I assume. The equipment used should be to specs but obtainable from more than one source - the same as certified equipment used in other strength sports. If it is too difficult or expensive to get set up as a contest promoter - then people will simply put on the contest and disregard any rules at all - which is what we hope to eliminate by setting standards in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Styles Posted March 6, 2007 Share Posted March 6, 2007 One hand deadlifts are highly dependent on the bar used. What's acceptable regarding rotation, knurling, bar flex, bar diameter? IMO to there is too much focus lately on trying to perfect a small number of relatively well standardized event. Where are the new standardized events? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikael Siversson Posted March 6, 2007 Share Posted March 6, 2007 Here it is again: Seamless high precision CRS of the new European Standard SS-EN 10305-1 (former DIN 2391) The quality type is E 235+C C max 0.17 % Si max 0.35% Mn max 1.20 % P max 0.025% S max 0.025 % Diameter of steel tube is 25.0mm Do they have European Standard steel in the US? Somewhere on the board Mikael posted the exact type of metric steel used - I know it is available here in the states - I would think a V-bar made of it would (or should) also be satisfactory, and cheaper of course for those of us outside Europe. Metric flat plate and rubber is no doubt also available pretty much world wide - I don't remember seeing the type of steel used posted but David would know I assume. The equipment used should be to specs but obtainable from more than one source - the same as certified equipment used in other strength sports. If it is too difficult or expensive to get set up as a contest promoter - then people will simply put on the contest and disregard any rules at all - which is what we hope to eliminate by setting standards in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin_Arildsson Posted March 6, 2007 Share Posted March 6, 2007 Without the down signal, the one hand lift becomes more of a "heave-and-pop" contest, if you know what I mean. Just like two hand pinch, which rules everyone is happy with? Steve: Never heard of Bawla, what's that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mac Posted March 6, 2007 Share Posted March 6, 2007 Well, to be honest I would like a down signal in that lift too, but there is at least a clear signal when the bar hits the marker. In the one hand deadlift it is perfectly possible for the lifter to not know whether the lift was good (bar tilt etc) which is where the down signal comes in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobsterone Posted March 6, 2007 Share Posted March 6, 2007 The two hand pinch is contested with a down signal as is the one hand deadlift. BAWLA are British Amateur Weight Lifting Association and are one of the oldest weight lifting associations anywhere. Back in the beginning of the history of our sport many lifts were used, much as in the grip arena. Over time it was shortened to 5 standard lifts which was shortened again to three and then two (the olympic lifts). Any other lift became what they called 'odd lifts' but the rules were log set. Much of this info is in David Horne's writing. The same one hand deadlift rules are also used by the IAWA (International All round Weightlifting Association) and USAWA (US version). David's original promotion of grip competitions were under IAWA rules and later he turned it into the Iron Grip competitions. On the USAWA site www.usawa.com there is a long list of odd lifts and the one hand deadlift reads as follows: C6. One-Hand Deadlift Either hand may be used. The may be raised either in front of the lifter, as in a Two-Hand Deadllift or the lifter may straddle the bar. Hook gripping is permitted. The free hand may be used to brace against the legs and/or body but may not be a brace upon completion of the lift. Foot spacing is optional, but may not change once the lift begins. Heels and toes may raise. The bar must be raised to a point where both ends of the bar must remain knee high and the legs must be straightened. The shoulders do not have to be pulled erect, nor the body straight as long as the legs are straight and the bar motionless with both ends above the knee joint. The lift ends with the referee's signal. The hands may not be changed during the competition. If you look at Iron Grip competitions for all three variations (hook, thumbless and standard) other than the grip the rules are identical. So there is no need for a jerk / speed version when rules are well established nor any need to come up with any new versions of our own other than the varient grips. I've repeated and linked to the rules when I've been told my millennium dumbbell lifts aren't a full deadlift. They are and the above proves it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
climber511 Posted March 6, 2007 Share Posted March 6, 2007 Here it is again:Seamless high precision CRS of the new European Standard SS-EN 10305-1 (former DIN 2391) The quality type is E 235+C C max 0.17 % Si max 0.35% Mn max 1.20 % P max 0.025% S max 0.025 % Diameter of steel tube is 25.0mm Do they have European Standard steel in the US? Somewhere on the board Mikael posted the exact type of metric steel used - I know it is available here in the states - I would think a V-bar made of it would (or should) also be satisfactory, and cheaper of course for those of us outside Europe. Metric flat plate and rubber is no doubt also available pretty much world wide - I don't remember seeing the type of steel used posted but David would know I assume. The equipment used should be to specs but obtainable from more than one source - the same as certified equipment used in other strength sports. If it is too difficult or expensive to get set up as a contest promoter - then people will simply put on the contest and disregard any rules at all - which is what we hope to eliminate by setting standards in the first place. Mikael - there is a place in here in Ohio that sells metric steel - when I contacted them - they said they had the size (25mm) and number you had given at that time - I assume they still have it available. They also said they could obtain for me about any size and type or standard of steel currently being made. He told me their stock was imported but didn't say from where - I can ask to be sure again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
climber511 Posted March 6, 2007 Share Posted March 6, 2007 (edited) Sorry - hit the button twice Edited March 6, 2007 by climber511 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Lipinski Posted March 6, 2007 Author Share Posted March 6, 2007 I copied the event rules directly from the Australian grip site I think. I like the idea of a "down" signal, pretty typical for a deadlift. If "motionless" is interpreted correctly, I think the down signal should be pretty damn quick. As far as the type of bar Scott, I think an IPF legal bar is what was suggested somewhere. That sounds like a decent standard. There will be some variation, but then again there also is with the grip stuff now. I know that vbar #'s were way down because of humidity at the last MI contest. What I would like to see a consensus or debate on: 1. # of events- Is 5 what is needed, or would a range of 4-6 be permissable? 2. Type of events- Is my list what we need? I also agree with Chris that it is important that we find a way to produce acceptable equipment in the US, or other countries for that matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Lipinski Posted March 6, 2007 Author Share Posted March 6, 2007 If anyone has lots of ambition to make vbars, check this: http://www.metricmetal.com/products/rn2391.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Styles Posted March 6, 2007 Share Posted March 6, 2007 I thought one handed deadlifts were usually done on a bar with a non-knurled center. IPF bar standards allow for knurling in the center, I believe. Which is it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Brouse Posted March 6, 2007 Share Posted March 6, 2007 Oh my goodness, I hope you fellahs get this figured out and nailed down because just reading the thread has given me a headache. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Lipinski Posted March 6, 2007 Author Share Posted March 6, 2007 I believe they have been done with a knurled center, though I could be wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobsterone Posted March 6, 2007 Share Posted March 6, 2007 I thought one handed deadlifts were usually done on a bar with a non-knurled center. IPF bar standards allow for knurling in the center, I believe. Which is it? Years ago the cheeky buggers used to use a cambered bar and this allowed for some crazy weights. I prefer and would continue to prefer a standard olympic bar with central knurled section. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Styles Posted March 6, 2007 Share Posted March 6, 2007 Sounds like I was just confused. Good thing, cause I don't have access to any bars without a knurled center. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.