Roark Vs The Pegasus

[Roark]

I have decided to begin this thread to log my Peg2 progress, or lack of progress- whatever the workout brings.

I have no plan except to make progress at my own pace. This morning's workout was wonderful. Some mornings there is less fuel in the tank and I take it easy.

Seldom do I plan to go above 20 reps because, frankly, it bores me. Occasionally I may,so that I can get a feel for how I am doing in relation to others who use high reps, but the system I have developed seems to work for me.

Here are the codes I will use:

ob = over bench, kneeling with forearms over bench for ext.

ok = over knees, sitting on bench with knees propped up, forearms over knees (for ext). This is much harder than ob because the arms are straightened.

Having done wrist curls for decades, I do them when my body tells me it has had enough rest.

If you want to know how these numbers translate to the Formulator, then add 10 to 15 percent to the numbers below:

Monday, July 24, 2006 bodyweight 202:

Flex: always done sitting on end of bench forearms on thighs.

35 x 10

50 x 6

60 x 6

70 x 5 plus one cheat

75, nope just 3/4 of a rep

50 x 20

50 x 12

50 x 10

Ext: (am nursing an injury from hammer curls so I take it easy here)

5 x 12 ob

7.5 x 12

10 x 9

5 x 8 ok

[Roark]

July 27, 2006:

Flex:

35 x 10

50 x 10

60 x 6

70 x 1

75 x 1 new PR

80 x 1 cheat*

51.25 x 15

51.25 x 10

45 x 20

45 x 15

Ext:

5 x 10 x 2 ob

7.5 x 10 ok

5 x 10 ok

I alternate these with lying reverse grip cable curls with wrist flips at the top of the curl.

* what I did on the 80 cheat was get the P2 swinging at the bottom and catch it on the upswing using the momentum

[staigl]

Joe,

I appreciate the time you have taken to log your Pegasus development here and at Ironhistory. Given your experience, I wonder may I ask a question regarding technique?

My wrist curls and reverse are performed (with a barbell) across a bench while kneeling on the floor off to the side. Personally, I prefer this to over the knees as my forearms seem more stable on the bench. Additionally, I have also done them straddling the bench with my forearms off the end of the bench.

In your opinion, is there a muscle development advantage to any of these techniques, including your current "ok" method with the arms straightened?

Certainly, anyone else willing to contribute thoughts would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Steve

[Roark]

Joe,

I appreciate the time you have taken to log your Pegasus development here and at Ironhistory. Given your experience, I wonder may I ask a question regarding technique?

My wrist curls and reverse are performed (with a barbell) across a bench while kneeling on the floor off to the side. Personally, I prefer this to over the knees as my forearms seem more stable on the bench. Additionally, I have also done them straddling the bench with my forearms off the end of the bench.

In your opinion, is there a muscle development advantage to any of these techniques, including your current "ok" method with the arms straightened?

Certainly, anyone else willing to contribute thoughts would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Steve

In my opinion over the lnees for flexion is better IF the hips are slightly higher than the knees, so that the forearms are on a slight decline and there can be no rest at the top position. This is why I prefer the Peg2 because there is no rest at the top.

For extension I prefer knees propped up with straight arms over the knees (forearm/wrist area resting on knees). But if you are using a barbell for this then the thumb is too involved and will thwart the benefit. Here is a suggestion: Using the high attachment on a lat machine and using a small straight bar hooked onto it, recline on a bench facing the machine and perform reverse curls, and at the moment you reach the top of the curl perform a reverse wrist curl as a finishing touch- you can use the momentum of the reverse curl to help with what I call wrist flips then concentrate on the negative of the reverse wrist curl/flip then straighten your arm to perform a second rep etc. I believe I read this in something Steve Alway wrote, and have found it most beneficial.

[staigl]

Rest at the top? What's that? Seriously, the only rest my forearms get is at the bottom of the exercises. I will try the decline variation on flexion. I have an adjustable preacher that might come in handy there.

The wrist flip idea is intriguing. Are you saying to hold the wrist curl contraction throughout the lowering of the reverse curl?

While I've got you here, if you don't mind... For the last couple months, I have been doing 3x20 (two-handed) finger curls, wrist curls, and reverse wrist curls, in addition to 2 hand pinch. (Thank you, David Horne.) I've begun to ponder, how do wrists and forearms respond to lower reps and heavier weights? And then, how low do you go; 6, 8, 12 reps? Sure, I'll likely experiment, but I wonder if you or anyone had any experience with this they'd like to share?

[Roark]

Rest at the top? What's that? Seriously, the only rest my forearms get is at the bottom of the exercises. I will try the decline variation on flexion. I have an adjustable preacher that might come in handy there.

The wrist flip idea is intriguing. Are you saying to hold the wrist curl contraction throughout the lowering of the reverse curl?

While I've got you here, if you don't mind... For the last couple months, I have been doing 3x20 (two-handed) finger curls, wrist curls, and reverse wrist curls, in addition to 2 hand pinch. (Thank you, David Horne.) I've begun to ponder, how do wrists and forearms respond to lower reps and heavier weights? And then, how low do you go; 6, 8, 12 reps? Sure, I'll likely experiment, but I wonder if you or anyone had any experience with this they'd like to share?

I cannot help on rep schemes other than to offer that for me higher reps 12-20 are better for building while lower reps are more suited to demonstrating strength.

Re: the other question:

While on your back on the bench with the straight handle attached to the top pulley of a lat machine, perform a reverse curl and while you are approaching your forehead just before you complete the rep, while using the momentum from the reverse cable curl, go ahead and 'flip the wrist' into a reverse wrist curl. Then perform the negative of the reverse wrist curl and while doing that, straighten your arms to complete the reverse curl. Sorta two exercises in one. The reverse wrist curl both positive and negative is done at the top of the reverse cable curl.

Make sure your elbows are positioned in such a way that the reverse wrist curl gets full 'feel'.

Sometimes for negatives, I do a partial sit-up on the bench and lay back suddenly to use the momentum to get a curl of extra reps.

Hope that is clearer?

[staigl]

Yes, thank you. And I hope you didn't mind me using your log to ask.

Steve

[Roark]

Yes, thank you. And I hope you didn't mind me using your log to ask.

Steve

Good! If you try them, please let me know what you think of them. I alternate them with sets on the P2 reverse wrist curl.

[Roark]

July 31, 2006 bodywt 201:

Flex:

35 x 10

45 x 10

60 x 10

70 x 3 cheats

50 x 20

50 x 10

50 x 10

50 x 10

(just wanted to get a total of 50 reps with 50 lbs)

Ext:

7.5 x 12 ob

10 x 10 ob

I have decided to occasionally add these exercises:

While standing with the hands in the reverse wrist curl position I curl the P2 up with just enough momentum to be able to complete a reverse wrist curl, then lower the reverse wrist curl slowly, then allow my arms to return to the bottom. Those of you who know what a Rectangular Fix is- that is the top position where the reverse wrist curl happens.

Or,

I simply perform reverse curls with the P2

[Roark]

Although the form of some reps was nothing to brag about, I did manage a set of ten reps this morning with 70 pounds in flexion.

[lifesnotfair]

What is the advantage of a Pegasus2 vs. a regular straight bar?

I find the bar very uncomfortable to use, specially because when I try to bend my wrists upwards (normal wrist curls) they kinda want to bend angled to the inside, so with both hands I find it awfully hard to still have a grip on the bar. It hurts my wrists. I've been thinking of getting a Peg. or Form. if they allow the movement to be done with the hands turning a bit inside... what do you think?

[Roark]

What is the advantage of a Pegasus2 vs. a regular straight bar?

I find the bar very uncomfortable to use, specially because when I try to bend my wrists upwards (normal wrist curls) they kinda want to bend angled to the inside, so with both hands I find it awfully hard to still have a grip on the bar. It hurts my wrists. I've been thinking of getting a Peg. or Form. if they allow the movement to be done with the hands turning a bit inside... what do you think?

I have the same problem with the barbell bar. The P2 allows me to grab the ends of the bar; that is, to have the ends of the P2 bar where my index finger joins the palms near the thumbs. This allows the palm to turn slightly inward just enough to give relief.

The other advantage from my experience is that the shearing forces on the wrist are absent with the P2- I mean nearly zero, whereas the barbell loads shear forces onto the wrist. The P2 offset handles, I suppose, are what relieves this pressure.

My experience with the Formulator taught me only that I wanted no more experience with it.

[lifesnotfair]

My experience with the Formulator taught me only that I wanted no more experience with it.

^^^ LOL!!

Ok, I'm gonna check out the Pegasus 2 and see if I get one. Is it common for people to prefer it over the Formulator?

[Roark]

My experience with the Formulator taught me only that I wanted no more experience with it.

^^^ LOL!!

Ok, I'm gonna check out the Pegasus 2 and see if I get one. Is it common for people to prefer it over the Formulator?

I really have no answer to your question. There are many who like the F and many who like the P. It appears that among those who have tried both, the edge goes to the P. In regard to wrist curls (flexion) I prefer the barbell over the F. Others disagree.

[climber511]

Probably very difficult for most people to do but the best possible situation would be to try them side by side before buying - it seems to be a very individual thing which one a person likes best.

[lifesnotfair]

Yeah, I'd love to do that... only problem is I probably don't know a single person with either of 'em =)

[Roark]

Aug 7, 2006 bodywt 201:

Flex:

35 x 10

45 x 10

60 x 12

70 x 7

75 x 5 cheats

50 x 10

did not feel like doing lots of reps this morning

Exts:

10 x 10 ob

5 x 10 ok 3 sets

15 x 8 reverse curls with wrist curls when arms parallel to floor.

[Roark]

Aug 10, 2006

Flex:

35 x 10

45 x 10

60 x 10

70 x 10 (6 good, 4 sloppy)

80 x 3 all cheats

55 x 21

Ext:

10 x 10

10 x 10

reverse cable curls with wrist curls, 3 sets.

[lifesnotfair]

Does one have to load plates with olimpic holes in the Peg2? Because the plates I have at home have the little hole, you know, they fit tightly in the TTK for example.

[Roark]

Does one have to load plates with olimpic holes in the Peg2? Because the plates I have at home have the little hole, you know, they fit tightly in the TTK for example.

I believe it is available with either size horn. But I take mine to the gym and they have no small hole plates.

[Roark]

Those of us who have used the P or the F for some months, can forget how newcomers respond to either of them.

The other day at the gym, a former competitive bodybuilder, who recently began re-training, and who weighs 293 lbs, tried my Peg2.

He started with 20 lbs and was very impressed with the feel and how effective the tool is. For a couple of other sets he dropped back to 10 lbs. Now, I am confident he could have used more weight, but as with his other exercises- he is staying light until a decade of non-lifting can be eased back into. The next day he commented on how achy his forearms were.

[lifesnotfair]

That's why I'm ordering a P :P

[Roark]

Aug 14, 2006:

This morning I wanted to change my usual rep scheme becaue I did not really feel like undergoing the usual torture. In my previous workout, at the point I got 21 reps with 55 lbs, I nearly fainted- literally.

So I wanted to have fun today, which for me, means lower reps.

Flex:

35 x 10

50 x 10

60 x 3

70 x 5 for four sets- these were not strict sets, but not cheat sets either- loose style*

50 x 10 for three sets

Ext:

sets with 5, 10, 15 lbs

*my success with gaining in using the Peg2 has been to do my heaviest sets any way I can, cheat, loose, whatever, and then, within that set to try to switch more reps per workout from loose to accecptable style. Today I could have done more than 5 reps with 70 on my first set, but wanted variety. By the fourth set I could not have done more than the five reps.

Dropping back to 50 for the three sets of ten was in very, very good style and I could have done more, but these days I workout for fun, and as I mentioned, I did not feel like doing it at all, but figured I had better rather than slack off.

[Roark]

First, a correction for my previous workout. My three sets of ten were with 55, not 50.

Aug 17, 2006

Flex:

35 x 11

50 x 10

60 x 10

70 x 1

80 x 1 good rep plus two cheats

70 x 6 good reps plus two cheats

55 x 10 for two sets

Ext: Today I decided to try ext the way (I assume) most people do them: sitting on the end of the bench with forearms on thighs (like I do flex, but obviously with the ext hand position. I was able to use more weight:

10 x 10

20 x 3

15 x 10 for two sets

The 80 is a PR for me. I had done a cheat 80 before, but today I managed a correct rep, then I always cheat a couple more if I can.

Now I will concentrate on a good set of ten with 70 as my goal. At that point, I suspect I will be able to get 80 for 3 or 4 correct reps, but I will jump to 75 after I succeed with 70 for 10 and only occasionally go for limit, dangerous, singles.

If, and this is of course, if, my calculations are correct on the F ratio to the P, then I would have managed a single this morning on the F with about 15% more, or about 94 lbs., and the set of 6 good reps with 70 would have been with about 80. The 15% is the ratio I noticed from personal experience when I had the F.

[Roark]

August 21, 2006:

Flex:

35 x 10

50 x 10

60 x 5

70 x 10 [load 45+25]

70 x 6

57.5 for three sets of 10

Ext: sets of ten with 10, 15,15,12.5

Next workout I will bump up to 75 pounds for my max set and try to get 5 reps, then use 60 for my three sets of ten- at least that's my plan. I will remain at 75 until I can get a set of ten plus a few reps with a second set, and then take another step up. My progress is steady, but one never knows when a plateau is just around the corner.