World armwrestling champs. poland

[Guest CanadaCrush]

David,

How did your matches go? In your losses, I can only assume they didn't take your hand; were they hooking matches?

-Mark

[David Horne]

Mark,

I shouldn't have lost against Gregory Schnieder of France, I had him down and thought I had pinned him. Anyway, I didn't and he got me back to mid-point then he fouled out. We set up again and he was faster than me, as was the Ukranian. No excuses, just beaten by better armwrestlers, also Gregory is a nice person. I will improve a lot in the next year.

David

[Guest Luke Reimer]

David, that was interesting about your match with the French guy. I know what it is like to taste the victory almost and then later lose the match. Nearly the same thing happened to me at my first provincials, and after that, I resolved never again to lose from complacency. I went back home and tore the pinning lines off my armwrestling table--now my practice matches go right to the table top. This makes for some tough battles, but has pushed back my sticking points, both physically and mentally. Now in competition it is second nature for me not to stop until either I hit the table top, or the ref calls the match, whichever comes first. I guess this is kind of like Joe Kinny's "training beyond the range" idea for grippers.

Good luck with your training! I'm sure you have what it takes to dislodge the Russians from center podium, if you want it badly enough. This is an ambition of mine too. I missed my chance to try this year, but meanwhile, I train...

Scott, I keep checking the regular websites for the story on the Worlds in Poland, but haven't seen anything online yet. I usually start my searches from www.armwrestling.ca, linking to "Swedish Armwrestling" and "USA Armsports." I think there may be a more specific site for worlds, but I can't remember what it is offhand.

[Guest 86-1005097353]

I've had a go at armwrestling over the years and we had one at a physique contest way back then. We didn't have weight classes or anything like that. I suppose bodyweight does make a difference. It is unlikely that anyone under 100 kg will be the world open champion.

A question to the fellows who have competed recently. Is there any correlation between perceived size and ability in armwrestling? What about forearm and arm size. Bodybuilders long ago realized they had nothing to gain and everything to lose by engaging in armwrestling. If a smaller man beats them the little guys feel elated. If they lose then the little man has an excuse.

There are some serious injuries resulting from that sport. How did the recent contest go injury wise?

Years ago a fellow in Vancouver, BC, invented an armwrestling apparatus. I recall having been featured in Ironman for one of those ads but the truth is I never used one until our contest. Has anyone improved on that machine?

A last question to David. How does grip and forearm strength help in arm wrestling? It surely is both a power and endurance event. If you don't win right away the endurance factor enters and changes the competition. A pity they don't have 15 second time limits and whoever is in the best position wins the bout. Otherwise all sorts of factors enter that really aren't about arm strength. In championships one of those long matches really can take too much out of you and then you are easy game for following matches.

[David Horne]

Luke,

Good idea regarding moving the pinning pads off the table, I'll try this.

Vince,

Bodyweight does make a difference, but John Breznk is one of the greatest armwrestlers ever and weighs about 100kg. I noticed no major injuries at the contest at all. Of course injuries can happen just like any other sport. Yes, my hand and wrist strength do help, but to be a champion at this sport you need to be technicaly proficient, have lightining speed, and be strong in many bodyparts (from your lats to your finger tips).

David

[Guest CanadaCrush]

Vince,

The apparatus was probably invented by the late John Miazduck (sp?). And David is right, body weight does make a difference, although I'd be hard pressed to find anyone on the planet to beat John B right now, and he's sub 200lbs.

-Mark

[Guest Luke Reimer]

Vince,

It's no surprise to me why body builders don't armwrestle. I can't think of anything in a body builder's regimen that would do much to prepare him for an armwrestling match, even against an inexperienced opponent. I think a power lifter would have much better chances than a bodybuilder, but still without recourse against an experienced armwrestler from the competition circuit.

There are certain shapes that enjoy a natural advantage in armwrestling. One is big hands. Another is claimed to be short forearms. Most people have one or the other, some have neither, and a rare few have both. These anatomical advantages would not seem to apply to the same moves as each other; and either of these advantages may be overcome by tougher conditioning or sharper technique, of which body building provides neither, at least in a manner specific to armwrestling.

You ask whether there is a strong co-relation between perceived size and ability in armwrestling. Here is an opinion from four years of experience that includes a few international competitions. When armwrestlers from heavier classes try opponents from lighter, it would seem that the heavier ones enjoy an edge. On the other hand, within a given weight class, there seems to be no pattern suggesting an advantage to more muscular opponents.

Vince, I've never witnessed a serious injury happen in armwrestling. I know there have been cases of broken bones, but I've never seen it myself. More common injuries would be strains, sprains, and inflammations. Armwrestling is very demanding on the tendons and ligaments. During an armwrestling competition the matches and the rest intervals between matches would often resemble a weight lifting routine consisting mainly of maximum singles, or severe negatives. However competitive armwrestlers have adapted their tendons to these demands to the point that they can handle a steady regimen of it, week after week. Usually the hardest part is at the beginning. Novices usually find the pain following practices excruciating, and may only be able to practice once every two or three weeks for the first several months. Sometimes they have to take a month or more off.  Eventually the pain tapers off and the training frequency increases.

As for power and endurance, Vince, I have some opinions on that too. I think armwrestling is mainly about power, not endurance. Most matches are over within two seconds or less. With sharp technique, marginal imbalances in strength may generate outcomes surprisingly fast. Longer matches happen, but not quite as frequently, and are usually dreaded. Winning even one match by means of endurance can be disastrous in a tournament setting where you have other matches afterwards. You made an astute observation, Vince, about the potential for the whole course of a tournament to be influenced by who happens to have harder matches and who easier. For the best or worst, this is a very present factor in any armwrestling class where two or more entries are close candidates for first.

Mark and David are right about John Brzenk. In many competitions he simultaneously competes in the 90 kg, 100 kg, 110 kg, and the open weight classes, winning all of them.  Anyone who armwrestles seriously knows of John Brzenk. Over the last twenty years he has bean beaten only by about half a dozen individuals,  and no one has yet found a way to do this consistently. He still dominates everyone.

Cheers,

Luke

[David Horne]

It's still painful to remember my first armwrestling training session with Neil Pickup at his home. The whole session went very well, my arms and forearms were terrifically pumped, in fact so much so that we had a little break reading armwrestling mags before setting off home. The next day the pain was unbelievable (ordinary armwrestling pain), I had to have painkillers for days. A week later it felt better and I made the mistake of doing some more A/W training. Within one bout it was back again, and it took 6 weeks to clear up. It would have been very easy to have give it up then, but I wanted to pursue this activity. Maybe I did a bit too much that day, but I still get some pain after every contest, in fact there is still some in my brachio from last week. But nothing compared to that first time where if someone had passed me a saw I would have gladly have taken my arm off! Most people (including bodybuilders) will not go beyond the first few unpleasant occassions. The sport of armwrestling is awesome fun, and you will meet some great friends. I can't wait to the Europeans in the Czech republic.

David

[David Horne]

It's still painful to remember my first armwrestling training session with Neil Pickup at his home. The whole session went very well, my arms and forearms were terrifically pumped, in fact so much so that we had a little break reading armwrestling mags before setting off home. The next day the pain was unbelievable (ordinary armwrestling pain), I had to have painkillers for days. A week later it felt better and I made the mistake of doing some more A/W training. Within one bout it was back again, and it took 6 weeks to clear up. It would have been very easy to have give it up then, but I wanted to pursue this activity. Maybe I did a bit too much that day, but I still get some pain after every contest, in fact there is still some in my brachio from last week. But nothing compared to that first time where if someone had passed me a saw I would have gladly have taken my arm off! Most people (including bodybuilders) will not go beyond the first few unpleasant occassions. The sport of armwrestling is awesome fun, and you will meet some great friends. I can't wait to the Europeans in the Czech republic.

David

[David Horne]

It's still painful to remember my first armwrestling training session with Neil Pickup at his home. The whole session went very well, my arms and forearms were terrifically pumped, in fact so much so that we had a little break reading armwrestling mags before setting off home. The next day the pain was unbelievable (ordinary armwrestling pain), I had to have painkillers for days. A week later it felt better and I made the mistake of doing some more A/W training. Within one bout it was back again, and it took 6 weeks to clear up. It would have been very easy to have give it up then, but I wanted to pursue this activity. Maybe I did a bit too much that day, but I still get some pain after every contest, in fact there is still some in my brachio from last week. But nothing compared to that first time where if someone had passed me a saw I would have gladly have taken my arm off! Most people (including bodybuilders) will not go beyond the first few unpleasant occassions. The sport of armwrestling is awesome fun, and you will meet some great friends. I can't wait to the Europeans in the Czech republic.

David

[Tou]

David, you just broke another world record : triple post ! It is the first time we see it on this board.

One question, did you wash your hands before typing it or were your hands chalked !!!

just a joke !

[Guest CalvinP]

Interestingly, when I came to Mr. Les Rollman's home few years back to work out for arm-wrestling. He has a apparatus that works on the palm/fingers. It's purpose was to thicken the hand so your opponent can't grip it better. But not once he ever mention about grip strenght. Les Rollman was heavy weight pro-champs (255 lbs) for sometime. I've witnessed him beating his protege, who weighed 350 lbs with huge arms, some like 10 pulls in a row so easily. The bigger dude could not even slow him down after training with him for 3 years. He has so many techniques under his sleeve to use, that I had an opportunity to learn a few from

[David Horne]

Woohoo! Another record, thanks Tou. I don't know what happened there.

Calvin,

Interesting post. It is harder to get a good set up against a thick hand, but not impossible to win. It all depends on where his strengths lie. I just read in Milo about Virgil Arciero's early encounters with Cleve Dean; on their second armwrestle, Virgil went low round the thumb base, thus negating Cleve's massive hand strength. Virgil suddenly realised that Cleve's arm was no stronger than the other 300lb armwrestlers he had been going against, and down Cleve came. After this, Cleve strengthened his arm up and became an armwrestling legend.

David

[Niklas]

Luke: did you see the WSM1997 when Samuelsson broke Nathan Jones arm? Samuelsson was smaller then Nathan and everybody thought that it would be a easy game for Nathan.

what they didn´t know was that samuelsson have been a european champion in armwrestling.

[KJM]

David,

Did any of the armwrestlers fail to close the #2 that you brought?

[David Horne]

KJM,

Yes.

David

[Guest Luke Reimer]

Niklas,

I saw a photo of the match between Samuelsson and Nathan Jones taken at some point before the injury. As I recall the picture showed that Samuelson had overcome Nathan's hand with a "toproll,"  and Nathan was fighting from an extreme mechancical disadvantage. Nathan may have been able to take some of the stress off his arm by abandoning his apparent effort too flex his wrist inward, and allowing his wrist to wrist to "flop" backwards into a "break-wrist" (not really hazardous to the wrist in the way the name sounds) by driving underneath with the base of his palm. This is a last-ditch recourse that usually fails anyway, but it does effectively shorten the arm of the competitor who has lost control of his hand, and sometimes create an awkward feeling for the attacker. In any case the match is an a good example of the inadequacy of raw power in armwrestling.

[Guest CanadaCrush]

Niklas,

I remember watching the match back when it first aired on TV. At the time, I was ignorant to armwrestling and it's techniques, and like most I thought Nathan would beat the 'smaller' Samuelsson (At the time he was quite small - compared to his 325+ frame now). Nathan made the mistake of not looking at his arm while pushing in the break wrist position, resulting in a spiral fracture of the humerus. I think they had the armwrestling in the competition purely for Magnus' benefit - to show the smaller man win. They neglected to go over the do's and don'ts, or if they did, Nathan ignored the warnings.

-Mark