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2006 Australian Grip Championships


Arthur Antonopoulos
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Second that.. Was surprised Burki made such an accusation against someone who is pretty much considered a legend!

Watch the video - then You understand my doubts.

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And who was on the video, Joe Knownothing??

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Burkhard,

I think the referees there would have picked up on a hook grip. Not really worth doing a hook grip on 123k! Well not for Nick, I've seen him pull over 200k on an olympic bar with one hand many times - of course using a hook grip!

David

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It's good to have calibrated weights in competition but I doubt that the OHL by Nick was within the rules!

Talk about hook grip....

123kg OHL with hook grip?

I'm confused. Granted the video is small and compressed, but it appears the thumb closes and the fingers close over the thumb? I'm not an active grip competitor, so it would be hypocritical of me to get in this discussion as it pertains to the contest, but isn't that how you do a hook grip? I'm self-taught based on verbal descriptions and I don't use it because it hurts (and I'm a puss), but if that's not a hook grip, then I was doing it wrong and might like to have another crack at that technique?

PS: Is there any clear closeup footage of a proper hook grip on the board that I could see to clear it up in my mind?

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Burkhard,

I understand what you're saying, and it initially looks suspect on the angle of the video, but I'm sure if we get the uncompressed footage you'll see that Nick actually lifts his thumb, wraps his fingers around the bar and then closes the thumb again over the fingers. I refereed the lift and saw the weight starting to peel out of his hand, pretty difficult thing to happen with a hook grip. Like most of the guys said, it's pretty pointless for Nick to hook 123 odd kilos when he'd gone well over 200 with a hook grip.

Greg,

We all thought that in the best interest of the competition it was only fair for Nick to compete considering the lead up work he has done in this and previous contests to get grip happening in Australia. We had already rescheduled the competition once and another would have had both Mikael and Dave out of pocket with air fares. We only had five competitors this year and all felt it was pointless without Nick being involved (although I'm hopeful that there'll be more competitors next year!). I understand what some are saying, but if you haven't met Nick, he is one of the fairest and most genuine guys around and I'm know he wouldn't have claimed any world records under those conditions. It actually was enough of an effort for Nick to come down and compete considering the dramas he faced in the lead up.

James,

Great to see another Aussie gripster! There's quite a few grip mad nuts here and I'll probably hold a Sydney competition in a few months time.

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It's good to have calibrated weights in competition but I doubt that the OHL by Nick was within the rules!

Talk about hook grip....

123kg OHL with hook grip?

You can't really tell from that video clip. There would be no point whatsoever for Nick to use a hook grip.

He would have nothing to gain and everything to loose. I did not judge this particular lift but there was a couple of Nick's left hand lifts I did observe closely and there was certainly no hook grip on those.

You need very solid evidence if you start accusing people of cheating. You will probably have to explain this to Nick in person one day. Good luck.

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Another thing, when Nick (and everyone else) did their right hand deadlifts, the referee was placed so he had a perfect lateral view of the lifting hand. There was no way a lifter could use a hook grip without the referee picking up on it. The judge ruled this to be a good lift. That's it basically.

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You need very solid evidence if you start accusing people of cheating. You will probably have to explain this to Nick in person one day. Good luck.

I don't have to explain anything or find excuses about what I have seen. If it is really the case that there was no hook grip used I would propose that only good videos should be uploaded. I watched the video very often and always see a hook grip - sorry. I'm not the guy who complaints about everything or who is overcritical. As I watched the video first time I was so much confused that I reread the rules for the OHL on aussiestrenght.com. As You can see I posted the link to the video with a "?" - so no reason to overreact. I think the reactions on my question were absolutely the opposite of objective - partly offensive. If normal questions result in such a discussion the sense of a forum is absolutely doubtful in my opinion.

BTW: I received several mails from guys who have seen the same on the video like me.

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A hook grip is not allowed and everyone at the competition was very much aware of this. You are basically accusing Nick of being a cheater, based on a low resolution video.

You are also, indirectly, accusing the referee of being either blind or part of a cheating conspiracy.

Accusing an athlete of cheating is serious. Accusing Nick of cheating is serious.

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Hmm, here's what I see and which may or may not clarify the lift - although a hi res version would be 10x better.

He appears to set his thumb first and then wrap his fingers over his thumb. However, as I was quite suprised to see this, I then watched it four times more on full screen (right click) and I think the thumb is bent back at an angle alongside the bar rather than under the bar. This isn't a hook grip per se but it also isn't thumb over nor is it thumbless.

It is possible that while the rules haven't been broken (by using a full hook grip) from the video Nick has taken advantage of a gap in the rules and used it. Two other things, one of which has been mentioned, make me think it isn't a full hook grip. Firstly with a full hook grip Nick has done the aforementioned 200+ kilo lift - a hook grip being painful. Secondly, with a completely thumbless lift Niick did a little, but nor dramatically so, less.

In training for the CoC event I experimented with ideas and my best in gym effort was over 130-kilos. I would use the thumb to squeeze against the side of the index fingers, having set the little finger first, just getting the fingers mashed against each other. In competition some hands half opened (Big Steve is one example) and the athlete had to keep the fingers hook shaped to complete the lift.

I'd like to see an explantion of the 'setting' I described if accurate. What may now be called a bending of the rules, rather than breaking, may well be resolved as and when the proposed commitee is established.

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With my computer`s capabilities, it is very clear that Nick "Does Not" use a hook grip. I can even see his thumbnail as it is placed across the top of the index finger. Now speaking as a moderator, let`s cease with the debate and not have this thread go south. Know what I mean ;). Thanks

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While that is true the GB have placed a great deal of emphasis in the past on the burden of proof by video and I beleive they will continue to do so I do not beleive that our moderator has a super computer which allows him to see a thumbnail. I have suggested that a simple screen captured shot from a frozen frame on the high res version of the video will sort this out once and for all.

It ought to be remembered that such comments on a 'legends' ability have been made and will continue to be made. Nick is a fine upstanding guy who, like many here, does a lot for the sport. Least of all flying half way around the world to compete. His excellent video work recently is the tip of the iceberg. Does that mean that he, or indeed any of us, cannot have questions asked? Of course not. I've taken flack in the past on my tilting of my heavy thick handled dumbbells as not being 'right' even though it was within the constraints of the rules (as I told Nick via MSN today). I then went up to the home gym, loaded a dumbbell to more than any of the images provided by others at the time of the comments and lifted it as dead level as any others were doing. Sometimes, toungue in cheek, we have jibbed each other over our ability to do well in some events - then come the day of competition up comes the bar. I kept being told how slippery the CoC olympic bar was compared to most - I think I kicked that into touch and one the event.

Right now you have the good word of the refs - it was a five man event - and Nick against a video which doesn't appear to show a thumb over grip. None of us is above questions being asked and it is, IMO, the mark of a man to be able to answer those questions without considering it an attack on our masculinity. If by doing so and proving yourself correct it is, again IMO, less likely your word will be challenged in the future.

Nick you're a good guy - rise above what you feel is personal - it is not. Mikeal you have changed your mind on stuff you have stood fast on in the past and will, as I am sure we all will, change your mind at some point in the future on stuff you stand fast on now. You competed and judged some of the events and know Nick well - this doesn't mean you are incapable of making mistakes. Arthur is the same. We all are. I have PM'd a reply to Burkhard and suggested that he is allowed to question but to choose the words so they seem less personal. I'd remind all that what amounts to real flaming of each other serves no long term purpose and belittles other efforts we make to move the sport forward.

So a screen capture still from the high res version and we can move on.

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One outcome of this might be that people will not submit video clips from competitions, unless they are of super high quality and taken from a perfect angle (which is basically never the case).

As I said, the lifts Nick did that I judged were perfectly normal one hand deadlifts with the thumb over the fingers.

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One outcome of this might be that people will not submit video clips from competitions, unless they are of super high quality and taken from a perfect angle (which is basically never the case).

As I said, the lifts Nick did that I judged were perfectly normal one hand deadlifts with the thumb over the fingers.

Or it may not. Not all lifts and all competitions are being questioned. I have seen and made mention in the past of the MM level one videos. You yourself passed comment on how some v-bar lifts would 'not have been passed by me' (I think that applies to the last Euro comp event) when you made some statement to the effect that you thought the wrist was more than 5cm from the top of the bar. It was ok for us to say what we saw and the people being questioned did not get upset. I think David and Arne have both responded to comments you have made in the past regarding how lifts were judged and so on. This is the same.

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Or it may not. Not all lifts and all competitions are being questioned. I have seen and made mention in the past of the MM level one videos. You yourself passed comment on how some v-bar lifts would 'not have been passed by me' (I think that applies to the last Euro comp event) when you made some statement to the effect that you thought the wrist was more than 5cm from the top of the bar. It was ok for us to say what we saw and the people being questioned did not get upset. I think David and Arne have both responded to comments you have made in the past regarding how lifts were judged and so on. This is the same.

No those examples are not comparable to Nick's case. Using a hook grip in an event where a hook grip is not allowed is cheating, plain and simple.

If you grab a vbar half an inch below the allowed limit then that is up to the referee to rectify. We do not use a caliper when we lift a vbar so some lifts will be right at the limit and some should probably not have passed if we brought up a caliper just as the lifter starts to pull. The benefit of using a hook grip is huge. The benefit of placing the hand half an inch too low is minimal.

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My examples weren't meant to show cheating nor that Nick has cheated but to show that you have questioned lifts yourself which others passed as ok, as we all have.

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My examples weren't meant to show cheating nor that Nick has cheated but to show that you have questioned lifts yourself which others passed as ok, as we all have.

I will give an example. I would have no problem whatsoever if someone suggested that I did not pull my 88.5k pinch lift high enough. I can't say I did. I have to rely on Arthur who was well placed to make sure the bar cleared 16.5''.

However, I would be seriously pissed off if someone suggested that I, for example, used a hook grip in the vbar as that would be deliberate cheating.

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IMO if i had received this video with absolutely no information about it, i would just have entitled it "one hand deadlift with a hook grip". I think many of us would have done so. Does it imply that it IS a one hand deadlift with a hook grip? NO! But is is disturbing nonetheless...

Great comp anyway. Huge numbers. Congrats to all the competitors.

A.

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I agree Amaury.

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IMO if i had received this video with absolutely no information about it, i would just have entitled it "one hand deadlift with a hook grip". I think many of us would have done so. Does it imply that it IS a one hand deadlift with a hook grip? NO! But is is disturbing nonetheless...

Great comp anyway. Huge numbers. Congrats to all the competitors.

A.

It is disturbing that so many of you are judging Nick based on a crappy video clip, when a judge had his face a metre away from Nick's hand, with a perfect view.

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I didn't judge Nick since I know him in person and he's a great guy.

For me it was obvious that a hook grip was allowed after watching the clip.

Its that simple.

And obviously Amaurys statement was leading in exactly the same direction.

No need to put further fuel in.

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