Jump to content

Set Vs. No-set


TelegraphKey

Recommended Posts

My TNS is the strongest if I only train with a MM set and then just try a TNS on the odd occasion. I have tried to train solely TNS but I never got up to the level I achieved by not training it at all.

To me, TNS training is a complete waist of time.

It would have been more useful in real life if the handles moved in a parallel position throughout the close, which of course they don't.

I am curious what the best TNS close you've done is. I'm guessing it's pretty stout. #3 at least? Your MMS strength is WAY up there also if I'm not mistaken. By telling us you might help lend credence to my point about the strong MMS closers having a strong TNS close too without specialized training.

Well, I always train gripper home with no optimal warm up to speak of (such as squats). The best I have done at home is a BBE rated at 3.38 on the Euro scale and the best TNS I have done at home is an easy #3 rated at 2.87.

In a competition situation with optimum warm up I am on average 3-4mm stronger. My theoretical max in competition would then be around 3.50-3.60 on the Euro scale (roughly around the MM3 level although the latest models appear to be a bit weaker) and with a TNS probably around an average #3 or slightly above.

I never test TNS at competitions though as this would drain me of strength needed for the other events.

Sadly, my grippers strength is down a little at the moment, probably a result of my massive work load in the vbar.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 107
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

  • bencrush

    14

  • Bearcat 74

    12

  • jad

    12

  • TelegraphKey

    10

Well, I always train gripper home with no optimal warm up to speak of (such as squats). The best I have done at home is a BBE rated at 3.38 on the Euro scale and the best TNS I have done at home is an easy #3 rated at 2.87.

In a competition situation with optimum warm up I am on average 3-4mm stronger. My theoretical max in competition would then be around 3.50-3.60 on the Euro scale (roughly around the MM3 level although the latest models appear to be a bit weaker) and with a TNS probably around an average #3 or slightly above.

I never test TNS at competitions though as this would drain me of strength needed for the other events.

Sadly, my grippers strength is down a little at the moment, probably a result of my massive work load in the vbar.

Thanks for the response Mikael! Those are some great numbers!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

sowhich one is hardest; MMS, TNS or CCS? I just triend it now and I think the CCS is harder.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

so which one is hardest; MMS, TNS or CCS? I just tried it now and I think the CCS is harder.

If you are not used to the unique position the gripper is put in, I would tend to agree that the CCS is the hardest. If you practice the CCS often enough to be comfortable with it, the TNS then becomes the hardest, at least in my experience. The CCS is certainly the dumbest set of all time......

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Of course if there was a contest where TNS was the only option, then the TNS closers would do well. But what some TNS-only trainees might not realize is that there was a graph produced from a poll here on the GripBoard that had some very interesting info on it regarding the max TNS and MMS closes of grip trainers. TNS-only trainers did well on TNS stuff, of course. But the MMS-only trainers also did well on the TNS stuff. AND more importantly, they were usually stronger on the max MMS closes than the TNS guys were.

There were only 20 some respondents to that poll if memory serves, not nearly enough to draw any kind of serious conclusions.

In the question of No set versus set for gripper work, the most important question is, what do I want to accomplish by training with grippers?

If your goal is to close the biggest gripper possible for you within whatever set of rules are most conducive to closing big grippers, then by all means use a set, as deep of one as you can get away with.

If your entire goal is strong hands, you'd like to certify with Ironmind some day, and you don't particularly care about scoring high in competitions, then No Set is for you (No set has the added benefit of not having to explain that the set is allowed whenever you show Jimbob down the street what mighty mitts you have).

Our sport is very young, and there have been no attempts to really track the strength levels of set adherents versus no set adherents. So, at this point whether you choose Set or No Set is purely a matter of personal preference. Choose the rules by which you are going to play this little game, and stick to them.

Edited by Sean Dockery
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Very good points Doc.

The sport is still very young, but some people are casually tracking the strength levels of set adherents and no set adherents. Mostly anecdotal evidence though.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No set has the added benefit of not having to explain that the set is allowed whenever you show Jimbob down the street what mighty mitts you have

:cool Soooo true!

I understand eveyones point of view, and appreciate the strength of you all that can MMS mash the big grippers. I think Doc's tale of Jimbob does raise one point of interest though. Whenever you end up showing a buddy a gripper close using a deep set they almost always make some cheating/half way/partial rep coment about what you are doing. Having to explain that, " that's how the big guys do it" seems to fall a little short somehow.

Again, I don't meen to take anything away from a huge MMS close - I can't close an Elite with a MMS, NS or any other way! :blink

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Luckily I don't care what "Jimbob" down the street thinks. If I can close an Elite with an MMS, I'll take that any day over TNS closing a #2 and feeling like I'm the big shit because I am doing it in a "pure" manner. :cool

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wow, this all fascinating. I had some clues about some of the subjects discussed here, but this one thread has given me many answers that I hadn't really even thought about asking the questions for, yet.

Well, now I'm pumped to investigate set work. I know I can search around the board, but I'll ask for your indulgence & ask if someone can here can point me to the easiest way to begin doing sets. (That is, Where do I get washers or whatever, easily, to set my gripper, etc.)

It seems odd that parallel sets can actually make you stronger faster than no-set/TNS. I don't quite understand it, but there's always stuff in weightlifting I don't quite understand the physics of. BTW, I guess my hands are slightly big, at 8" (from the first crease on the wrist to the end of the middle finger). I don't seem to have too much problem getting the gripper in my hand, though the ends definitely move a little closer once I wrap my fingers around. But a credit card or whatnot still fits in there, I verified that awile back. How do guys who can't naturally get their fingers around the gripper, so that a card fits in there, ever reasonably get to certify under IronMind rules?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Even though I now I know he was not cheating I still have it somewhere in the back of my head that you have not really closed the gripper unless you can CCS or no set close it.

Most here on the GripBoard use an MMS exclusively. Some use the TNS and CCS in their training also.

I and others will heartily disagree with you on your observation that you have not really closed the gripper unless it was CCS or NS closed.

You will learn through trial and error, IF you try new things that are out of your current comfort zone, that MMS closing builds tremendous strength with the grippers. It builds up your CCS and your TNS also by virtue of just making you plain stronger overall.

For instance: One man spends his entire training career ONLY doing TNS closes. He will be very limited in what he can close. He might be a genetic freak and still only get to the Elite level with the TNS stuff. He's not very likely to get to the Super Elite level with TNS.

The other man spends his entire training career ONLY doing MMS closes. He will probably make it to the Super Elite level if he's a genetic freak and possibly higher than that with a lot of consistent workouts.

He will probably be able to TNS close a #3 with no TNS training once he gets to the Super Elite level with the MMS. So who's stronger? The guy who can close a Super Elite MMS or the guy who can TNS close the Elite?

Once you get your answer, you'll know which one to start training for.

To me the answer is simple. :whistel

I think you misunderstood my post, I am not at all against the MMS and I am working on it because I know it will help when I get to harder grippers. But, I am naturally more impressed if someone can close a gripper with a CCS or no-set. Also I don't do a TNS, I just put the gripper in my hand and position it but I don't help squeeze it at all with the other hand. I guess I did not word my post correctly sorry about the misunderstanding.

Klicks

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That's the same way I no-set Klicks. I don't think any one is against MMS, that's how I got my #3 to go finally! I just feel that, for me, when I can NS it -I'll be more content.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ben, I know you can NS a #3 - I've seen the video of your double NS #3 close (grrrrr..). Did you feel any differnet when you reached the point that you could no set it as opposed to when you could MMS it? Or was it more of "I closed it MMS, end of story".I'm not trying to prove anything, just asking for your thoughts.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Luckily I don't care what "Jimbob" down the street thinks. If I can close an Elite with an MMS, I'll take that any day over TNS closing a #2 and feeling like I'm the big shit because I am doing it in a "pure" manner. :cool

Good stuff :D The majority of the Jimbobs I've encountered have trouble just setting the #3 and they rarely set my MM2 at all. This usually gets rid of the whole, setting is cheating attitude. I think what the Jimbobs don't realize until they try it, is that it takes some strength just to set the big grippers and it only gets harder, it 's not like a lockout where there is no tension on it until you lift.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have never seen any "jimbob" TNS a gripper to close it. Even a little set makes a huge difference in what you can do.

I do wonder if training for TNS is better for any sort of "functional" strength, because training for set closes seems to make TNS stuff go up good as well.

Hand size will make a huge determination about how good the TNS stuff is for you. Like I wrote above, I like doing no set stuff on my narrower grippers, but I get zero out of doing it with my ironmind ones. Well, I guess it would be cool to hit the #3 :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Luckily I don't care what "Jimbob" down the street thinks.

Who do you think you're fooling? If you don't care what Jimbob thinks, then why are you challenging folks at work to close the grippers, closing girppers in front of folks at work, and posting videos and workout logs on the internet? If we're on this message board, then on some level we care what other folks think of our strength and the way we do things.

If I can close an Elite with an MMS, I'll take that any day over TNS closing a #2 and feeling like I'm the big shit because I am doing it in a "pure" manner. :cool

I'm not sure who thinks No setting a #2 qualifies you for big shit status, but it darn sure ain't me. And I'll happily say that Heath, or Dave or you Ben are stronger than me on grippers. Set the durn thing as much as you want, but be honest and admit that if you close "x" gripper (x being a gripper you can't no set) with a set and then hand it to Jimbob who no sets the same gripper....he's stronger than you.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

. Set the durn thing as much as you want, but be honest and admit that if you close "x" gripper (x being a gripper you can't no set) with a set and then hand it to Jimbob who no sets the same gripper....he's stronger than you.

I'd agree to that but only if he can close a tougher gripper than you with a set. If setting makes it easier and he's stronger than you TNS, then he shouldn't have a problem. For example, I can't TNS a #3, Jimbob can but I can MMS an Elite and he can't get it TNS or MMS. I'm stronger.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Set the durn thing as much as you want, but be honest and admit that if you close "x" gripper (x being a gripper you can't no set) with a set and then hand it to Jimbob who no sets the same gripper....he's stronger than you.

Yup, if someone sets and closes a BBE and someone no sets that same BBE, there is absolutly no question who is stronger.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I do wonder if training for TNS is better for any sort of "functional" strength, because training for set closes seems to make TNS stuff go up good as well.

I think most TNS stuff would only be marginally better for "functional" strength. Almost everybody I've seen TNS grippers, finger walks em' like a champ, which IMO takes out the majority of functionality. Big T's vid of his TNS Hg300 is the type of close that would give you "functional" strength IMO. The other example being JB's idea of closing them on a string. I think thickbar or wide pinch adjusted for your handsize if you have huge hands would be the best for functional strength.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I do wonder if training for TNS is better for any sort of "functional" strength, because training for set closes seems to make TNS stuff go up good as well.

I think most TNS stuff would only be marginally better for "functional" strength. Almost everybody I've seen TNS grippers, finger walks em' like a champ, which IMO takes out the majority of functionality. Big T's vid of his TNS Hg300 is the type of close that would give you "functional" strength IMO. The other example being JB's idea of closing them on a string. I think thickbar or wide pinch adjusted for your handsize if you have huge hands would be the best for functional strength.

I would agree with that statement.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ben, I didn't think anyone had said they were a "big shit" for no setting, I must have missed it.

Fissure, that was actually some self-deprecating humor. I used to think I was the big shit for only using TNS to close grippers. Didn't mean to offend anyone, although once again I have managed to piss off about a dozen people. :D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ben, I know you can NS a #3 - I've seen the video of your double NS #3 close (grrrrr..). Did you feel any differnet when you reached the point that you could no set it as opposed to when you could MMS it? Or was it more of "I closed it MMS, end of story".I'm not trying to prove anything, just asking for your thoughts.

Good question. Yes I did feel like it was a much harder feat than just MMS closing the #3. I would still rather be able to MMS close a Super Elite and only TNS a #2 than be able to TNS an Elite but only MMS that same Elite too.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Luckily I don't care what "Jimbob" down the street thinks.

Who do you think you're fooling? If you don't care what Jimbob thinks, then why are you challenging folks at work to close the grippers, closing girppers in front of folks at work, and posting videos and workout logs on the internet? If we're on this message board, then on some level we care what other folks think of our strength and the way we do things.

If I can close an Elite with an MMS, I'll take that any day over TNS closing a #2 and feeling like I'm the big shit because I am doing it in a "pure" manner. :cool

I'm not sure who thinks No setting a #2 qualifies you for big shit status, but it darn sure ain't me. And I'll happily say that Heath, or Dave or you Ben are stronger than me on grippers. Set the durn thing as much as you want, but be honest and admit that if you close "x" gripper (x being a gripper you can't no set) with a set and then hand it to Jimbob who no sets the same gripper....he's stronger than you.

Doc, you apparently think that I was attacking you in some way. I wasn't. But one good shot deserves another.

And I don't think I'm "fooling" anyone by closing the grippers in front of folks at work, and posting videos and workout logs on the internet. I post my workout log here and videos because the people here are not some "jimbob" who knows nothing about gripper set technique. The guys here DO know about what it takes strength-wise and technique-wise to set grippers and they also know that it's harder to TNS close them. So the people here appreciate gripper closes more than the general public.

Again, I don't remember hinting that YOU were the one who thought that closing a #2 conveys "big shit" status. Did I say that in one of my posts? It is possible. Stranger things have happened.

And I will happily admit that Heath, Dave, and I am stronger than you on the grippers. :) I don't remember asking that question though...

And I will also admit that anyone who TNS closes a gripper that I can't MMS close is stronger than me. That is insane that you had to ask me to admit that. I have never denied that fact. Or even tried to say that TNS closes are easier than MMS closes.

You are aware that I occasionally TNS close some grippers Doc? So therefore I would actually KNOW which one is harder? I think the only way you perform your closes is NS or TNS, right? That's awesome. You are strong. It's worked for you. Congrats.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yup, if someone sets and closes a BBE and someone no sets that same BBE, there is absolutly no question who is stronger.

Is this true? There is a truth about grippers and hand placement that nobody argues, and that is there are places in your hand that naturally provide better leverage. Some people can TNS a gripper with the gripper in a decent but not optimal place in the hand while others cant get it to the same place in their hand. In grippers they are not size adjusted so just because someone can no set it does not make him stronger, it may just make him stronger AT THAT WIDTH.

Now to prove my point, Take a griper with a 1" spread, and re-test both individuals in your example are you going to guarentee that the one who no set it is still stronger? I think that is the difference that should be recognized. No setting a gripper does not guarentee you are stronger, only that you are stronger at that specific width. There are plenty of people myself included that have to finger walk a gripper to TNS it. I will never be good at this and to be very honest, I cannot see how this is even relevent to any "functional" thing I could do.

As with anything, I could be wrong :tongue

Link to comment
Share on other sites

. Set the durn thing as much as you want, but be honest and admit that if you close "x" gripper (x being a gripper you can't no set) with a set and then hand it to Jimbob who no sets the same gripper....he's stronger than you.

I'd agree to that but only if he can close a tougher gripper than you with a set. If setting makes it easier and he's stronger than you TNS, then he shouldn't have a problem. For example, I can't TNS a #3, Jimbob can but I can MMS an Elite and he can't get it TNS or MMS. I'm stronger.

Thoroughly agree with Josh on this one. Some of the TNS and CCS proficiency is hand size-related to some degree. My hands aren't small (7 and 7/8") so I have a much easier time TNS closing some grippers that some stronger MMS guys (like Blobert) with slightly smaller hands might not be able to TNS close. That doesn't mean I'm stronger than them. Just better able to demonstrate it on the TNS closes. MMS closes take the hand size and technique out of the equation.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Unfortunately, your content contains terms that we do not allow. Please edit your content to remove the highlighted words below.
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy policies.