--- "pegasus" By Pda-

[BigPaulFromCityHall]

only because nautilus was brought up-- i will say --although i like some of the hammer strength machines(i bought my wife 22 machines for her fitness center) i never did like the old nautilus---

--same people involved with both companies?--i don't know? or care--

i like the hammer equipment(for what it is----she also has 9 tons of free weights and dumbells-and cybex,icarian,flex,bodymasters,life fitness,nebula,and custom pieces from strength inc.)--but i never liked to use nautilus--

the old nautilus pullover was good--the old bi-cep machine was ok for a change in work outs----

--i could also fabricate --and maybe improve upon either of these wrist developers---not my intent

i am still considering both---either

just want some honest feedback---

-i never have been one to pay attention to marketing hype or advertising--but---usually- i don't hold it against a company either--

goodness

Edited March 8, 2006 by BigPaulFromCityHall

[BigPaulFromCityHall]

1957..... HMMMM UNIVERSAL perhaps Arthur's complaint is that "he stole it first"

--ahhh--universal--

i have hundred of old patents printed out--machines--inventions--fascinate me--you will see that most inventions borrow from another-

--or are re-invented when the old patent expires---

--many ideas are "stolen"--

--of course neither pegasus or formulator are patented?--so there is nothing to steal

[WildGorillaMan]

my point is "second handers" are second handers... and followers are followers

cut the crap and go with the best(of course, you are free do what you want...go down in the

basement and whip up your own "Formulator" and get on the boards and crow and smirk...I sure don't care...

like the man said..."a man gives you are roadmap to his soul...")

a) if you didn't care, you wouldn't be posting.

b) imitation is the key to innovation. if the original of anything was still the best, we'd still be driving steam powered automobiles. Ferdinand Porsche didn't invent the automobile, but his imitations seem to have made out okay. Hammer Strength is another good example of this.

c) competition in the marketplace not only benefits the consumers, it benefits the producers because it means they have to be on top of their game. If a brand can't hang with the big dogs, that's their problem.

d) I'll tell you right now, the successful marketing of the best brands focuses on why their product is the best. They don't waste bandwidth talking about why their competitors aren't as good.

[Mlstrass]

Scott,

I'm in the Gurnee area, about 10 minutes from the mall. I made a PEG2 replica last night, a very good one I might add. Are you close to me?

I also have a replica F word. I've only used the PEG once, but I don't care for it so far, like the F word much better. The offset handles on the PEG are goofy to me. I'd be rather upset if I shelled out the $$$ for it and it sat in the corner of my gym.

My only complaint with the F is the price and I'm not saying it's overpriced as the quality looks very solid and it's well thought out. My "complaint" is that's a LOT of $$$ just to work your extensors, well that's all I use mine for........

[Scott Styles]

Paul,

I would have some conerns about the durability of the olympic sleeve on the formulator in a commercial gym environment. I do not think it would hold up well to being used with a screw type collar. I'd be suprised if a spring collar keeps the weights on there very well. You really need to use the Ivanko collar it comes with.

Along a similar line of thought, the pad that sits on the top of the hands seems like it would be prone to cracking with constant use.

Based on the PDA website, the Pegasus looks more durable. However, it also looks like you need a wrench to adjust the setting to accomodate hand size. That could discourage members from using it.

Depending on your wife's clientel, a concern I would have with both devices is that it is easy for someone to walk off with them. I throw my formulator in a messenger bag to transport it. It would be no problem for someone to toss it into a large duffel bag and walk out of a fitness center.

Mlstrass,

I don't think it would be fair to PDA to use someone's homemade tool to evaluate the effectiveness of their Pegasus relative to the Formulator. We could still do a get together though. I'm in the far western suburbs of Chicago, by Naperville. I work in the loop. Maybe we can get a couple of the other Chicago area guys to get together on a Saturday. Shoot me a PM with your availablity, we might be able to convince Greg to host something. Or we could get together downtown one day depending where you work.

[perrymk]

Why would I buy one that costs $30 from a hardware store rather than buying the cheapo from Walmart that costs $8....

The WalMart hammer is made in China, the more expensive hardware store hammer is probably (not always) made in the US. As I live in the US (I recognize not everyone does and I have lived in another country) and am an American citizen I like to support American jobs whenever possible. I also prefer not to support a country without the same human rights, copyright/patent rights and environmental concerns as the US whenever possible. This is not a political statement, just a statement about my concerns and that I make an honest effort to put my money where my mouth is. It's not always possible to buy US, but I can try.

[BigPaulFromCityHall]

--thanks for feed back scott--

--interesting --

--if the pad is a hard material it would crack--partly due to constant cleaning in a commercial setting-

-i don't like the sound of that olympic sleeve-

good point on theft--generally this would be a problem in a fitness center this size-

-the gym has security cameras--40+law enforcement members--i have a permit to carry--theft so far hasn't been a problem---

--we have some characters-- in the fitness center--- that i wouldn't bring home to dinner--but they are on my side- L O L--it would be better if i caught someone stealing--

[Slider454]

Why would I buy one that costs $30 from a hardware store rather than buying the cheapo from Walmart that costs $8....

The WalMart hammer is made in China, the more expensive hardware store hammer is probably (not always) made in the US. As I live in the US (I recognize not everyone does and I have lived in another country) and am an American citizen I like to support American jobs whenever possible. I also prefer not to support a country without the same human rights, copyright/patent rights and environmental concerns as the US whenever possible. This is not a political statement, just a statement about my concerns and that I make an honest effort to put my money where my mouth is. It's not always possible to buy US, but I can try.

Okay I think you totally missed my point in the paragraph I wrote......I wasnt meaning to buy NON american I was simply comparing prices...the 2 pieces that this whole tread is based upon are probably both made in america....it was a comparison of price vs product not american vs chinese!!

[Roark]

It would be very easy-given PDA's record of special order specs to meet specific needs, to ask for some loop to be welded onto the Peg2 so that a cable could be attached for a mooring point in the gym to prevent stealing.

[perrymk]

Okay I think you totally missed my point in the paragraph I wrote

I don't think I missed the point. I believe you indicated both products perform essentially the same for your purpose and one costs less. I get it.

My point is the choice to purchase cheapo products has implications beyond price. These other implications cannot be separated. I believe this is true whether one chooses to acknowledge it or not. Just like the choice to discuss homemade equipment has implications, good and bad, beyond someone saving a buck (topic of another thread).

[Pryderi]

I asked about the PegII a while ago, but it was relatively new at the time and nobody had a review.

Given the recent reviews of the product, and the apparent quality/value over its competition, it looks like the PegII is the way to go when I am ready to replace my substitute.

Thank you to those who stayed on topic and had something intelligent to contribute.

[gamidon]

I am interested in the thoughts about the wrist curl side of the pegasus. I wouldn't buy a device for extensors (I would be too lazy to use it ). I would consider a device for wrist curls as I hate doing them with bars. I tried the Formulator and it was flawless for extensors. I cannot imagine how any device could improve on this, I was really impressed with that. I thought the wrist curls were OK but I wasn't 100% happy with them. I will likely try it again soon and spend a little more time trying the wrist curls with it. Something about the feeling of no thumb at all in the movement had me feeling awkward on the reps, it felt like it wasnt sitting right. It is ENTIRELY possible that I could have adjusted it differently to get it right.

I am interested in others opinions on the wrist curl side of the Pegasus as well as the Formulator. I am not worried about the price, I have shit I don't use and I consider that wasted money. Spending money on stuff I use never gives me any heartburn, I give away the stuff I don't use. Just ask some people who have come over

[Rick Browne]

I am interested in the thoughts about the wrist curl side of the pegasus. I wouldn't buy a device for extensors (I would be too lazy to use it ). I would consider a device for wrist curls as I hate doing them with bars. I tried the Formulator and it was flawless for extensors. I cannot imagine how any device could improve on this, I was really impressed with that. I thought the wrist curls were OK but I wasn't 100% happy with them. I will likely try it again soon and spend a little more time trying the wrist curls with it. Something about the feeling of no thumb at all in the movement had me feeling awkward on the reps, it felt like it wasnt sitting right. It is ENTIRELY possible that I could have adjusted it differently to get it right.

I am interested in others opinions on the wrist curl side of the Pegasus as well as the Formulator. I am not worried about the price, I have shit I don't use and I consider that wasted money. Spending money on stuff I use never gives me any heartburn, I give away the stuff I don't use. Just ask some people who have come over

gamidon,

With wrist curling a bar, the hands do a lot to move the weight which affects the forearm muscles. Try and concentrate moving the forearm muslces only, to move the hands and the device. Muscle control as it were. You need to crunch the forearm muscles independently without having the hands involved.

Keep the hands relaxed, but grip with light pressure.

One more thing, at the top of the flexion, I found that crunching the forearms for a pause count adds to the affect.

Edited March 8, 2006 by zcor

[climber511]

For anyone using them side by side - what differences are there in "feel" etc? Does one work the back of the hands, front, back, sides of the forearm better than the other, etc? Is one better biomechaniclly better and stresses the wrists more or less? These are the only types of questions that might matter to me.

[gamidon]

gamidon,

With wrist curling a bar, the hands do a lot to move the weight which affects the forearm muscles. Try and concentrate moving the forearm muslces only, to move the hands and the device. Muscle control as it were. You need to crunch the forearm muscles independently without having the hands involved.

Keep the hands relaxed, but grip with light pressure.

One more thing, at the top of the flexion, I found that crunching the forearms for a pause count adds to the affect.

Rick that is a really good point, I had a very difficult time letting my hands relax and it was like I was fighting with the pad. I will be trying one again and will see if I can do it and relax.

Thanks

[Rick Browne]

gamidon,

With wrist curling a bar, the hands do a lot to move the weight which affects the forearm muscles. Try and concentrate moving the forearm muslces only, to move the hands and the device. Muscle control as it were. You need to crunch the forearm muscles independently without having the hands involved.

Keep the hands relaxed, but grip with light pressure.

One more thing, at the top of the flexion, I found that crunching the forearms for a pause count adds to the affect.

Rick that is a really good point, I had a very difficult time letting my hands relax and it was like I was fighting with the pad. I will be trying one again and will see if I can do it and relax.

Thanks

Practice with small plates ( 2 1/2 or a 5) so that you can get the feel of using the forearm muscles to move the device. It`s a little trickey at first, but it will happen.

[rjkd12]

Practice with small plates ( 2 1/2 or a 5) so that you can get the feel of using the forearm muscles to move the device. It`s a little trickey at first, but it will happen.

I don't know much about this, but I wanted to offer an idea. You are talking about isolating the forearms, which with a little bit of mental effort is quite possible. I was wondering if that is smart though. My reasoning is, if you can lift more weight not isolating the forearms you are recruiting more muscles in to play to assist. As a strongman, powerlifter, grip person or anybody else besides bodybuilding isn't that what you want?

I just ask because it takes effort to teach the body to either use all available muscles to work, such as powerlifting/strongmand and it takes a lot of effort to teach the body how to isolate certain muscles as in bodybuilding.

Now, I am just speculating. Maybe you can lift more with muscle control, maybe your goal is much different than I stated. I just wanted to offer a perspective in case you guys didn't consider that.

[kimwood]

what a good thread(aside from the editing of my post concerning the "cess pool board guys")(of course, they rose to the bait with enjoyable responses for the public record) ...you learn a lot about people when the real issues

are thrown out there... Like that old fox, Parmenides said..."what is... is" ...and second handers tell

their own stories too...

[CMunger]

I can't see the above post, but I'm certain that it was constructive insight into the pros and cons of isolation vs compound movements.

[tspinillo]

what a good thread(aside from the editing of my post concerning the "cess pool board guys")(of course, they rose to the bait with enjoyable responses for the public record) ...you learn a lot about people when the real issues

are thrown out there... Like that old fox, Parmenides said..."what is... is" ...and second handers tell

their own stories too...

Here is some bait for you:

http://www.gripboard.com/index.php?showtop...8255&hl=martial

[jad]

wow, I missed that thread...pretty entertaining video though

[kimwood]

one of the great problems with "knock-off" equipment like the "pegasus"(the

"Pegasus" is an attempt to "knock-off" or copy the Formulator) is the assumption

that the "knock-off" is the same as the original...and rarely is this the case(it certainly

is not the case with the "pegasus")... When there is a "knock-off" the mental

frame of reference is always the original...the sad irony is that people will try the

"knock-off"(the "pegasus") find it "not special" then say to others "I tried the "Formulator"

and it's not all that great"... As I mentioned before...it is interesting to see who buys the

"knock-off" and why... Many seem to forget that when they buy the "knock-off" they are still

marching to the drum-beat set down by the original...

[Bill Piche]

one of the great problems with "knock-off" equipment like the "pegasus"(the

"Pegasus" is an attempt to "knock-off" or copy the Formulator) is the assumption

that the "knock-off" is the same as the original...and rarely is this the case(it certainly

is not the case with the "pegasus")... When there is a "knock-off" the mental

frame of reference is always the original...the sad irony is that people will try the

"knock-off"(the "pegasus") find it "not special" then say to others "I tried the "Formulator"

and it's not all that great"... As I mentioned before...it is interesting to see who buys the

"knock-off" and why... Many seem to forget that when they buy the "knock-off" they are still

marching to the drum-beat set down by the original...

Kim,

I am sure everyone remembers this:

http://inventors.about.com/cs/inventorsalp...rtin_cooper.htm

And that almost everyone these days carry on their person a "knock-off" of the original invention.

I doubt anyone would argue about the Formulator possibly being referred to in the future just like terms PDA (no, not the company) or cell phone or even laptop are referred to today generically at least in the grip world.

But, this forum is to talk about equipment not debates (more like arguments) on what's better (including homemade in that list) when the participants could very well be speaking without data to back it up (lower quality statements, etc.).

I have used the formulator, like it a lot, and because of it I now do wrist work. My teens are also starting out on the right foot of total grip/arm strength by using it as well. I have not used a CHI or a PEG so for me to make statements it's good or bad would be outright ludicrous since I have never even seen one in person.