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Wr Criteria


Mikael Siversson

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Okay, thanks for the response Mikael. I think that answers any questions I had and am happy to go forward with the rules as stated now that they've been explained.

Aside from Mobster's ankle biting (hehe), does anyone have any other objections to the rules? Can we agree on them and go forward? :)

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Fourth, if a plate touches the stick and the athlete continues to pull the implement up to a point where the judge clearly can tell that the pipe crosses the line of the top of the breeze, then the lift will count. For example, in the case with Pexter last year, if he'd touched the stick with the plate and then locked the implement out, the pipe would have definitely been to the high enough level, even beyond it. That attempt would count, as far as I see it, right?

Something similar happened in my contest- The plates took out the stick first. I thought it might happen, so I was watching level with the stick and saw that it clearly went high enough.

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Brian Carlton (bseedot) I am anxious to hear your take on these things, too buddy.

-Jedd-

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Sorry if I missed something but from what I have read you have all decided that the height of the lift should be 16.5 inches? Is this saying that when the central pipe/bar of the lifting apparatus hits the stick, which is 16.5 inches high, that this then constitutes a legal lift?

This doesn't seem like a very large distance to me... :blink

For example, 20kg plates are approximately 18 inches in diameter. This places the top of the central loading pin at about 9 inches above the ground (a little more if the loading pin is 2 inch diameter). This means that you only have to make a lift of lift 7.5 inches or less in order for it to be considered legal?!!!

I would hazard a guess that previous lifts that have been done to knee height (including the current Euro apparatus record) travelled a little further than 7.5 inches! I for one have done a ton of lifts that have travelled 10 inches or so which I consider as nothing more than gym lifts.

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Guys,

Maybe think about using discs that are of a smaller diameter than the pinch plates supplied with the euro apparatus. This will at least enforce uniformity of the height lifted across contests.

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Sorry I should have posted that earlier having discussed it this lunch time with David. No bigger than 15-kilo discs in Europe and no more than 35 lbs in the US.

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That sounds reasonable, since I understand the Euro pinch disks were based off the size of a 15kg plate

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Not really, the inner plates have a diameter between that of a 15k plate and a 20k plate, i.e., larger than a 15k plate but smaller than a 20k plate.

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Brian Carlton (bseedot) I am anxious to hear your take on these things, too buddy. 

-Jedd-

I am apprehensive about #8. We're not as far along in the U.S. as they are in Europe. I'd like to see the sport grow much more in the U.S. and that means finding some competitors that are currently unknown. I think of a guy like Jeff Bissonnette who pulled 400 on Apollon's Axle in one of my contests. There isn't a better non-hooked axle lift in a U.S. contest but Jeff, and all competitors of that FWH 2003 contest, wouldn't have been considered high caliber gripsters. Do we tell that new person to the sport that their lift isn't recognized as record material because they weren't considered a high caliber contestant prior to the contest? Personally, that would really turn me off to the sport.

But I can see what Mikael's saying too if I were to post on here that I'm going to try to break a WR (or even American record) tomorrow at the grip contest in my basement with me and my fiance competing. I'm just hoping there's a better way to mitigate against that risk than by deeming contests high-caliber or not. I mean, how deflating would it be for a guy to wants to put together his first contest with a bunch of guys only to be told to, "have fun, but none of your lifts will count if they break a record". I'd rather see a minumum number of non-related competitors and/or a certain advance announcement period for a contest. Like, at least five non-related competitors and an announcement at least 45 days prior to the contest. Something like that is more hospitable to the would be promoter and competitor.

BC.

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#8 is wrong. Now i know this is not weightlifting related but I want to make sure what you are saying. If I enter a local lets say bowling tournament and bowl 3 perfect games in a row then it would not count because my event did not have any top PBA bowlers competing?

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I'd rather see a minumum number of non-related competitors and/or a certain advance announcement period for a contest. Like, at least five non-related competitors and an announcement at least 45 days prior to the contest. Something like that is more hospitable to the would be promoter and competitor.

I think there is a lot of value in this statement. If it is announced and people have ample time to register, prepare for a contest, and travel to the show, why not let the lifts count? What are the others' thoughts on this?

-Jedd-

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Whether or not it matters-

I have sent messages back and forth with Mikael. For the American Record list Brian and I are keeping, we will accept any contest we see as a "real" contest, the criteria Brian laid out being more than enough. We would be more than happy to accept any records in what we could consider to be a legitimate competitive venue.

Like other sports though, maybe World Records should be held to a slightly higher standard. I would hope, that by coordinating efforts with the European grip community before a particular contest, international records can be broken.

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#8 is wrong.  Now i know this is not weightlifting related but I want to make sure what you are saying.  If I enter a local lets say bowling tournament and bowl 3 perfect games in a row then it would not count because my event did not have any top PBA bowlers competing?

Not sure about bowling but if you and your mates got together and held a local competition and somehow managed a snatch of 225k, it would still not be regarded as a WR by any official authority in the OL world.

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#8 is wrong.  Now i know this is not weightlifting related but I want to make sure what you are saying.  If I enter a local lets say bowling tournament and bowl 3 perfect games in a row then it would not count because my event did not have any top PBA bowlers competing?

Not sure about bowling but if you and your mates got together and held a local competition and somehow managed a snatch of 225k, it would still not be regarded as a WR by any official authority in the OL world.

No disrespect Mr. Siversson but if i enter a local event and break the WR of a raw bench and the event followed all rules and standads why would it not be a WR? Just because Mr. Meldenson wasnt there?

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#8 is wrong.  Now i know this is not weightlifting related but I want to make sure what you are saying.  If I enter a local lets say bowling tournament and bowl 3 perfect games in a row then it would not count because my event did not have any top PBA bowlers competing?

Not sure about bowling but if you and your mates got together and held a local competition and somehow managed a snatch of 225k, it would still not be regarded as a WR by any official authority in the OL world.

No disrespect Mr. Siversson but if i enter a local event and break the WR of a raw bench and the event followed all rules and standads why would it not be a WR? Just because Mr. Meldenson wasnt there?

Gripper RM man you have just made the most integral point in this here debate. Thank you and once again well done record breakers!

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if all the rules are followed and the weights are calibrated, why shouldn't a new wr stand, because some committee did not have control of the event.

it seems as if the only way this will be resolved for mikael is if he personally attended every grip contest. I hope you have enough money for the flights, hotels, etc.

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No disrespect Mr. Siversson but if i enter a local event and break the WR of a raw bench and the event followed all rules and standads why would it not be a WR?  Just because Mr. Meldenson wasnt there?

As far as I know you need for example all three judges in IPF at least to have an international judging certificate. In other words there is a certain set of rules that needs to be satisfied for a WR to be deemed valid. One problem with small local competitions that few attend is that there is a larger risk that plates are not calibrated properly, rules not adhered to etc.

One minimum requirement that I would vote for would be that the competition must held annually unless the quality of the line up is of very high standard. Otherwise we will, without a doubt, get a situation where small, local competitions are tailored, in part, to give a particular individual an opportunity to have a go at a WR every now and again (in fact it is already happening as we speak).

This would otherwise mean that hard earned WR's (such as the one set by Jedd and Dave; assuming that the needed calibration of the scale used at the GGC will not upset the new record) will stay with the guys, who fought against the best, for only a few weeks before it is beaten by someone in a small obscure competition featuring a wolf amongst a flock of harmless (strength wise) sheep.

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In Olympic lifting which is one I am familiar with - WRs can only be set in sanctioned meets, with certified weights, and with referees qualified for that level competition. Even club meets are sanctioned and usually have certified weights - the kicker there is that most club meets do not have referees that are nationally or internationally qualified.

Of course every competitor has to be a member of USAW etc. I'm not sure we're ready for the cost and complexity of a world wide governing body just yet. Several big issues have been solved lately with open conversations on this board with feedback from all parties - keep it up and I think it will work out.

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#8 is wrong.  Now i know this is not weightlifting related but I want to make sure what you are saying.  If I enter a local lets say bowling tournament and bowl 3 perfect games in a row then it would not count because my event did not have any top PBA bowlers competing?

Not sure about bowling but if you and your mates got together and held a local competition and somehow managed a snatch of 225k, it would still not be regarded as a WR by any official authority in the OL world.

No disrespect Mr. Siversson but if i enter a local event and break the WR of a raw bench and the event followed all rules and standads why would it not be a WR? Just because Mr. Meldenson wasnt there?

#8 is wrong.  Now i know this is not weightlifting related but I want to make sure what you are saying.  If I enter a local lets say bowling tournament and bowl 3 perfect games in a row then it would not count because my event did not have any top PBA bowlers competing?

Not sure about bowling but if you and your mates got together and held a local competition and somehow managed a snatch of 225k, it would still not be regarded as a WR by any official authority in the OL world.

No disrespect Mr. Siversson but if i enter a local event and break the WR of a raw bench and the event followed all rules and standads why would it not be a WR? Just because Mr. Meldenson wasnt there?

Gripper RM man you have just made the most integral point in this here debate. Thank you and once again well done record breakers!

Err no he hasn't. In powerlifting, olympic lifting and many other sports when a wr attempt is announced prior to a local comp the organizers and lifter can be required to ensure that a top level federation referee is there. So we could do the same. Mikeals earlier point is being ignored. He said that it has been noted many times that a record is broken in local competitions only for the lifter not to be even close at a later higher level event.

How do we get around these bones of contention? If we can't make the best lifters attend competitions then we camn ensure that the refereeing and observence of the rules are of a high standard. At the very least this means good standardized equipment, video and photo and no decleration of a WR until several well respected observerschose from an elite lifting group have passed the lift based on video footage etc etc.

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I think one of the best things is for all parties concerned to get together in the chat room, say once every month for a 'meeting' or whatever. This certainly is easy enough to accomplish. In this meeting, just the same as other meetings, items would be discussed and voted on.

What does everyone think?

David

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I think one of the best things is for all parties concerned to get together in the chat room, say once every month for a 'meeting' or whatever. This certainly is easy enough to accomplish. In this meeting, just the same as other meetings, items would be discussed and voted on.

What does everyone think?

David

At this point any decisions should be made primarily by organizers of grip strength competitions. This sport stands and falls with the dedication of these individuals.

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