The Hub Lift...80

[1stCoC]

I have just forwarded two pics to Wannagrip one of the 80lb Ironmind hub lift by Meatball and one to be added to the records section for my two finger, 5-10s pinch deadlift with an extra 11lbs added. I have made a number of calls about the "rules" for a hub lift and according to everyone I asked there are no stated ways pertaining to grip that must be adhered to when lifting it. I have personally spoke with Randy Strossen and he said that he "assumes" one would lift the hub with a fingertip "claw" grip but he added other than being a purist thought there is no "law" against another type of hold as long as the gripping is confined to the hub area.If you look at the picture his hand is in a semi claw position not flat against the hub base. This lift was witnessed by a ROOM full of coaches and lifters then weighed and re weighed with witnesses present. I tell you one thing I sure was impressed with Meatballs lift! RS

[ryaneverk2]

Wow, 80 pounds.... that'a a LOT.

edit - can't wait to see your plate pinch either, Richard!

Edited August 15, 2005 by ryaneverk2

[ryaneverk2]

Just thought of the standoff of the century...

THE Hubgeezer vs. meatball, on the IM hub. Whatever way they want to grip it, claw or meathook style ( ). I've seen Hubgeezer in action and he's a beast. Whoever wins buys the other a beer (or coke... depending on who wins ).

[mobsterone]

I have just forwarded two pics to Wannagrip one of the 80lb Ironmind hub lift by Meatball and one to be added to the records section for my two finger, 5-10s pinch deadlift with an extra 11lbs added. I have made a number of calls about the "rules" for a hub lift and according to everyone I asked there are no stated ways pertaining to grip that must be adhered to when lifting it. I have personally spoke with Randy Strossen and he said that he "assumes" one would lift the hub with a fingertip "claw" grip but he added other than being a purist thought there is no "law" against another type of hold as long as the gripping is confined to the hub area.If you look at the picture his hand is in a semi claw position not flat against the hub base. This lift was witnessed by a ROOM full of coaches and lifters then weighed and re weighed with witnesses present. I tell you one thing I sure was impressed with Meatballs lift! RS

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Interesting way of quoting 'rules' etc. I believe it was explained and there are reams of pages on the grip contests and lifts therein as to why there might be a need for rules.

Prior to the article by Randall in an old issue of Ironman on the 'captains of crush' (namely you and John Brookfield) the sport of grip was little more than tricks and feats of strength. In some ways the many, many lifts can still be classed as that.

Randall himself created new rules for shutting the CoC grippers when he thought that too much advantage was being taken by a bending of his true intent. In some schemes (mashmonster being one) such 'rules' are still allowed. the reason for that is that the first closing of the MM grippers allowed all advantages, within reason, to be taken. So Randall introduced the credit card rule. He has also made adjustments to the bending of IM red 'nails'.

In the last few years grip competitions have come on in leaps and bounds and while there have always been challenges of one kind or another only Kevin Fulton and David Horne can lay claim to events from five years back. In the last 2-3 years we have seen not only more competitions but events where people from different continents have travelled 8000 miles plus to 'have a go'.

In the last 2 years we have argued, ignored, argued again and gone over the minutae like you wouldn't believe. Add to that the idea that, as we have seen, it is inherent human nature to look for an edge or an advantage and the simple fact, whether you have had the time (and you have been ill and needed to recover well - thank god) or not, you'll be able to find 100's if not 1000 posts where slowly but surely an international standardization of rules agreed on four continents and by 20-30 nations of at least 6 or so events.

One popular lift, esp in the US, is hub lifting. While it hasn't made it on to the lifting platform as yet it is in a lot of the athletes training programs. If it becomes more popular and more than a 'handful' (ahem - pun intended) start to play at it then rules, videos and pictures and the like become neccessary. Joe Roark and others, here and elsewhere, can contact you and cite and quote days, dates and times for events that are widely reported but never happened.

If, by some miracle I end up as esteemed as you are I would still want to be able to show as much - in this electronic age - as I can tell. We still await the video clip of John Wood one hand deadlifting the Millennium dumbbell from (as nice as guy as he is) Kim 'word is bond' Woods (a phrase he used again and again when asked to provide images and video until posts were locked). I say this not to stir up old arguments but to show you why the questions are asked and why people want proof and an agreed standard for the way things are done. No one truly doubts it possibility they just ask for more than a few words - even from one such as yourself.

I hope my post is seen in that light.

[stew2]

I just like to say meatball way to go great lift.I can't wait to see the pics .Also I'm glad this is being discussed because ever since I started doing hub lifts I've wondered if it counted by using the sides of your fingers and knuckles on the hub. I always was under the intension it did'nt because its easier but no one could really tell me for sure so I've always used the claw grip. So I hope this brings about some standards to follow and know for the future. Even with the other form of grip this is still a heck of a lift keep it up!

[mobsterone]

The history of our sport is wide and broad. There are some great historical items over at Ivanko along with York and other sites.

Older style plates have had higher hubs than the more modern ones and so a claw grip will have been easier on those. On the newer ones a half decent purchase can be sort by using the sides of fingers. Thus a better purchase is given. I have had a go at this lift myself and after the events were over at last years GGC was briefly able, without practise, to get a 45-pound plate up. If I had used the sides could I have got more?? Possibly.

From such a thought one can gather that one style may allow more weight to be lifted. So questions get asked, photos sought and even our 1stCoC becomes questioned. Some ask for proof and others how so they can have a go using the same style and method. Our education expands and records raised.

To illustrate that even Randall is not above such questions he has not always been kind when one of his own heroes, the late great Paul Anderson, had feats questioned. There were letters, comments and editorials by Randall all to the negative - almost as though they asked why anyone dared question some of pauls feats of strength. Paul himself rarely made such claims as others did on his behalf.

I have no wish to knock any ones contribution to our sport. Be they Richard S., Kim W or Randall S but they also are not above question. I sense, rightly or wrongly, that Richard had fully understood why prove was required. I welcome his response to the contrary. From such answers the truth will come, from the videos and photos we will see how the feat was performed and maybe a Gripboard member will learn the 'trick' (if such a word is right) and raise the bar a little higher. Nothing is to be taken as a personal attack but only as a question.

[oldtimer]

Steve, you add some very interesting points. In the case of the hub lift---basing my information on old Strength & Health mags--it was just an impromptu gym lift as far as I recall. In other words, guys would test their grip like--"Hey, can anyone else here pick up a 45 lb York plate by the hub?" My guess (that's all it can be until I reread those old articles) is that these guys didn't give a hoot how you held the hub--the feat was just to get it off the floor, and I think stand erect with it. I'll know more when I find the old write-ups and photos in S&H. Some guys--Hubgeezer to wit--has tried an old York plate and the IM hub and he states that the old plate was much more difficult.

Now, what strikes me as quaint, is that a lot of lifts started out one way, and we put our spin on it by adding our rules which is okay but I think someone needs to point out the history of some of these feats--a perfect example would be the lifting of the Inch Dumbbell--I know you were one of the earliest that could do this- and in the beginning--Thomas Inch that is--just challenged people to lift the Inch with one hand off the ground. Now, we have some groups that have added their rules (GripBoard I think) that you must stand perfectly erect with it. That's fine, but just for the record I think it ought to be stated how the original lift was done. Please don't anyone take this as criticism--only as clarification.

Steve, I've got this feeling that if grip monsters like you, David Horne, Clay Edgin, and about 8 other guys trained on this that most of you would be up to at least 60 lb or more. I say--have a go at it, but try to get it into a competition where you have a judge, witnesses, and the weight weighed. Again, congrats to Meatball.

[Muscle Turtle]

so, is Meatballs style legit or what? and if it has to be decided, who is going to decide, and when.

[Bill Piche]

There's no one responsible for deciding anything as far as I am concerned. I posted the picture just now by the way. There was a claim of a world class feat and I locked the post per the rules. The picture was provided, and I opened it. Ba da bing.

[pdoire]

Nice lift Meatball!!

[Sybersnott]

Ba da bing.

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Oh, when Wanna pulls out the ol' "ba da bing" his word is GOLDEN. Disobey, and you'll be "sleeping with the fishes".

[Roark]

I apologize if I missed the post, but how much can Meatball do on the hub in the traditional claw style? More or less? Thanks.

[Tom of Iowa2]

I have made a number of calls about the "rules" for a hub lift and according to everyone I asked there are no stated ways pertaining to grip that must be adhered to when lifting it. I have personally spoke with Randy Strossen and he said that he "assumes" one would lift the hub with a fingertip "claw" grip but he added other than being a purist thought there is no "law" against another type of hold as long as the gripping is confined to the hub area.

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Things never come across well on the internet so let me clarify that I am not being flippant or disrespectful but Strossen has a tendency to change 'rules'mid stream or when he wants.

Case in point Janne Bartls' old (former) World record on the rolling thunder was done in front of Strossen himself(not to mention dozens of strongmen and Odd 'Rolling THunder'Haugen).It was a thumbless grip on an RT handle.Apparently ok on that day(but onlyBartl used this style of grip)

This thumbless style was later made' illegal'so Bartl lost his world record....it just dramatizes,IMHO,that even though the hub is Strossens implement his opinion of the lift or intrepretation of the rules.....is,perhaps, fleeting.....or at best ambiguous?orvague and ,apparently,a matter of what is convenient- at the moment.

BTW Meatball IS a monster.A Phenom!I mean that.Very impressive

Edited August 16, 2005 by Tom of Iowa2

[mobsterone]

There's no one responsible for deciding anything as far as I am concerned. I posted the picture just now by the way.  There was a claim of a world class feat and I locked the post per the rules. The picture was provided, and I opened it. Ba da bing.

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A slight contradiction surely - it makes you responsible. You, as the man in charge of the GB, have also allowed unedited (mostly) discussions of rules and postingsof off site discussion of the same for the all of the 5 or 6 events now being used in events such as the British Iron Grip, GGC and this weekends European.

The rules on this site, including those regarding world class feats of strength, are yours. The only 'lack of a rule' we have at the moment on this topic is that no one has settled, by mutual agreement, on allowing a claw grip or a side of fingers grip.

And it was you, applying the rules we agree to abide by, that locked 1stCoC's post - the same as you would for any such feat. I may have misread it but I'm not certain 1stCoC understood why. Even his last post seemed to ask for an explanation as to the why and wherefores.

[mobsterone]

Having just looked at the photo I edge towards the camp suggesting that it be a 'claw' lift. The style used looks like half a thick v-bar lift (in the USAWA they have a v-bar which is 2-inches thick). I'll see if I can mock up something here later in the same style and see what can be done.

[Bill Piche]

Actually, I performed my responsbility per the rules here Steve. The gripboard does not maintain "world records" nor is it the governing body to be the "word" on what is what with respect to grip.

If Richard doesn't remember rule #4 here, no big deal. Lots of people who are new don't even read the rules!

I'm not sure the point of your post actually.

Why would the gripboard not allow discussion of events used at competitions?

Please...I am not looking for a response...so no need to give me one.

There's no one responsible for deciding anything as far as I am concerned. I posted the picture just now by the way.  There was a claim of a world class feat and I locked the post per the rules. The picture was provided, and I opened it. Ba da bing.

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A slight contradiction surely - it makes you responsible. You, as the man in charge of the GB, have also allowed unedited (mostly) discussions of rules and postingsof off site discussion of the same for the all of the 5 or 6 events now being used in events such as the British Iron Grip, GGC and this weekends European.

The rules on this site, including those regarding world class feats of strength, are yours. The only 'lack of a rule' we have at the moment on this topic is that no one has settled, by mutual agreement, on allowing a claw grip or a side of fingers grip.

And it was you, applying the rules we agree to abide by, that locked 1stCoC's post - the same as you would for any such feat. I may have misread it but I'm not certain 1stCoC understood why. Even his last post seemed to ask for an explanation as to the why and wherefores.

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[mobsterone]

Ok, but rules is rules and someone has to enforce them and you did. Those rules came about for a variety of reasons - 1stCoC seemed not to know why. Nuff said

[mobsterone]

Why would the gripboard not allow discussion of events used at competitions? 

There's no one responsible for deciding anything as far as I am concerned. I posted the picture just now by the way.  There was a claim of a world class feat and I locked the post per the rules. The picture was provided, and I opened it. Ba da bing.

←

A slight contradiction surely - it makes you responsible. You, as the man in charge of the GB, have also allowed unedited (mostly) discussions of rules and postingsof off site discussion of the same for the all of the 5 or 6 events now being used in events such as the British Iron Grip, GGC and this weekends European.

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And I'm not sure why you thought I said that either...

[Hubgeezer]

I have been kidding around some about this for a bit, and have been amused by the amount of attention that this obscure lift has gotten the last week. I thought I would weigh in with what I really think on a serious note.

I received an IronMind Hub in 1999 as a gift from my older brother. I never heard of "The Gripboard" until I was in a competition in Northridge in March of 2004. There were 7 contestants in it, 4 of them Captains of Crush, plus Meatloaf. Besides that, there was myself and some fellow who had never touched a gripper in his life. Clay won the contest, which consisted of IM Grippers, IM Hub, and the RT.

I made the 600 mile round trip in one day, during my busiest time of the year, for one reason only. I told my son that I thought I was good on the IM Hub, and I wanted to prove to myself that I was "world class" on it. I said this casually before the contest, and some 50 year old bench presser from Texas with 22 inch arms(Odd Haugen's estimate, not mine) turned around and stared at me like he wanted to kick my ass, as it appeared to him I was talking out of it. We had 5 lifts, but I thought that meant you had 5 trys on an unlimited amount of lifts, so I opened with 30, went to 35, then 40, all with my weak hand, before I understood the rules, at which time I was in 5th place with only two lifts to go, and an unwarmed up right hand. I selected 55 with my right hand which put me in first place, Dave "Gorilla Hands" selected 60 for his 5th try, and I came back with 62.5 for the win. Because I was 49 years old and no one knew who I was, the small audience was impressed.

Here is the point to this diatribe. I walked out of there that day deciding that I would research what people had done on the lift, and I would establish myself as the best in the world in that event. I joined the Gripboard, and found that nobody cared about this lift, and what is cool and what is not does not follow any particular logic. Trust me, I have researched its history thoroughly. Then, along comes this kid, and he uses the term "world record", and the Board suddenly goes bananas. Theoretically, there is no one that should care more than I about this, as no one else, to my knowledge, had their heart set on being number one.

Okay, so what do I think?

1. Did I actually believe I was the best in the world? No. There are many guys, who if they trained for it, could pull over 70, and I don't see why over 90, close to 100, would not be possible.

2. Do I think the kid's lift is a good lift? Yes, it is a great lift.

3. Do I think his style is "legal"? I use a "claw" style. Dale Harder's latest newletter has a photo of me with 70 pounds at the peak of what looks to be a high pull, taken in June. My hand looks like a claw clasping the hub. No one ever gave me instructions or explained rules to me when I started working on it. Over time, I developed a style where the entire inside of my pinkie serves as a stabilizer on the side of the hub. My thumb and other 3 fingers are grasping the device by the fingertips, but my pinkie is utilized to its full extent.

So, if someone told me that the only reason that I can do what I do is because I am "cheating" with my pinkie, and it is not a true claw, I would say that someone is just dreaming things up to discredit a good lift. I see Meatball as using his index finger the way I use my pinkie, except he is not using it as a stabilizer, he is using it to grab, and since the index finger is strong, it works very well for him.

So, is it "legal"? If I were King, I would say yes. Is it a "world record"? Who knows, that is not for me to decide, and keep reading.

Wade Gillingham's website states that he holds the "unofficial world record" in the hub with a lift of 75. He told Clay Edgin that was 75 pounds of plates on the smaller IM pin, so it would be just over 77 in total weight.

In his Mash Monster interview, Rob V states that he has done 80 pounds on the IM Hub. I don't know if that is plates only, as if it were, and if it were done on the large pin, it would be 85 total. And you know what? I would tend to believe him, but that doesn't make him the world record holder either...There is not an established system to recognize anything as a "world record".

I say "stay tuned", as there will be further developments with this obscure device. Congratulations Meatball, and I am sure we will be hearing more about you. My advice to you is to enjoy your remaining time in high school, compete in what kids your age compete in, and don't get too hung up with what some obsessive compulsive grip guys around the world are doing outside your own circle of friends and family.

Hubgeezer

[Bearcat 74]

Wade's lift was done with the finger tips, not claw style. I'm pretty sure Wade's was also on a new hub. I have one, they are powder coated, will hold absolutly no chalk and are booger slick.

[smitty]

....and are booger slick.

Yes, I would also say our Hub is wet booger slick! Damn - that's slick!

[HAMMERHEAD]

I think Meat did a great job on the IM device. Good job kid. Remember fellas that it's a "handle" not a real hub. If Meatball can lift a real plate by the hub with the "v-bar" technique then more power to him. Honestly, I don't think you can hub lift a plate without using the 'claw' grip.

People use the "claw" technique for the carry over effect to real plates. If Meat wants to 'v-bar' grip the IM hub it's fine. It's a great lift. Nobody should care unless they are in a contest.

This always happens when a new guy says something like "strongest", "world record", "world class", etc........ Remember Mike the Destroyer? That was funny. Man, people got fired up!

-HH

[dadams]

can some one post some pics of the different styles of holding the hubs

[Sean Dockery]

A friend and I were talking about hub lifts and the hullabaloo about them in the past couple days. I have very little interest in the lift myself, but here's my thought.

A level playing field is a good thing. What a level playing field for hub lifts is...you got me...could be certain implement, grip, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera...take a smarter person than me to figure that out.

Now a question, has anybody lifted a 45 plate with the wide shallow hub (or heard of anyone). I know Wade does it at the end of his nutty 2 45's video. Anyone else?

[nickr104]

Like this hub. Right Doc45 hub

Here is a pic of my brother Stew hubing it from his gallery45 hub lift

Edited August 16, 2005 by nickr104