dennisb Posted November 28, 2005 Share Posted November 28, 2005 So you have the old book do you? Great book isnt it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
verdigriz Posted November 28, 2005 Share Posted November 28, 2005 So you have the old book do you? Great book isnt it? ← This is a newish book, completed not long before he died, so its probably his most complete and tested theories he had at the time, but yeah a great book. I am sorta in a training crisis at this stage between mentzers training to failure ideas which I respect alot and can see the logic in what he says, but then theres other recent and equally compelling advocates that say never to to train to failure, pavel tsatsouline just for starters....and you cant brush off the calibre of the russian comrade and his methods! So at this time I am overhauling what I do and just consolidating things really, but still keeping things fresh to combat boredom...but a kettlebell is next on the list, great for grip training too so i hear like most of us grip lovers my goal is to crush the #3...a long and exciting road ahead, cheers for the replies so far Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dennisb Posted November 28, 2005 Share Posted November 28, 2005 Was pavel tsatsouline ever a Mr.Universe? It depends on what you want out of your training. I used Mentzers techniques many years ago. And i got very good results. Would it be wise to do this type of training week in week out? I would say no perhaps once per month. Thats my $0.02. Test it out and see what fits your needs and goals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
verdigriz Posted November 29, 2005 Share Posted November 29, 2005 Was pavel tsatsouline ever a Mr.Universe? It depends on what you want out of your training. I used Mentzers techniques many years ago. And i got very good results. Would it be wise to do this type of training week in week out? I would say no perhaps once per month. Thats my $0.02. Test it out and see what fits your needs and goals. ← I understand where you are coming from but that wasnt really what I was getting at. Mentzer was mr universe largely due to his genetic makeup, its likely either pavel doesnt have the same genetic makeup, or isnt interested in that type of musculature...but, and this is the point I was getting at is that mentzer said that a properly conducted bodybuilding regime is largely a strength regime, and pavel is in the strength game. In one of pavels books he states a system for building large muscesl that was tested on a bunch of russian soldgers, it was largely a volume approach, many sets, but never to failure, and pavel said it worked a treat. Thats where my current training crossroads has come from. What mentzer says about gaining strenght and muscle, and what pavels says..both ppl I respect greatly. I too have tried the mentzer heavy duty system and had great results too, but I have tried the volume approach too, with some success too, but admittedly I dont have the genetics to be hugely muscular like a bodybuilder and I have accepyted that. I have moved away from that desire anyways, preferring just to have weird strength like gripping, one armed pull ups and pistols etc... I hope that cleared up my position a bit more verdi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
austinslater Posted November 29, 2005 Author Share Posted November 29, 2005 Pavel is legit and has produced some monster results for a few guys I know. A buddy of mine just did his ladder idea which goes against everything Mike Mentzer says and he more then double his pullup strength and added a ton of size. I honestly think both can work and alternating them can work very good. After you adapt to more volume switch it up and do a higher intensity Mentzer type workout. Poliquin alternates every 3 wks in a similar fashion. Also another thing to keep in mind is that just about every top powerlifter over the last 20 years didnt train to failure and usually leave a rep in the bank, Ed Coan comes to mind. Hope this helps! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonL Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 Pavel is awesome. Cycling your training, work hard, but don't kill yourself. Don't train to faliure. Sometimes I cannot work out as fequent as I would like, so If I got a workout in 1-2 a week, I would just do a ton of volume on that day, instead of doing less sets to Faliure. Works better than I have ever imagined. My PR"s are going through the roof because of it.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quazimodo Posted February 28, 2006 Share Posted February 28, 2006 ahem *cough* periodised training *cough* *sneeze* why not use both, and indeed many others, and slowly weed out the ones that dont work as well, and use new methods if you plataeu. Periodising doesnt have to be linear, you can vary your mesocycles pretty widely (aslong as you have some period in between cycles to adapt to new methods) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orso Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 Yeah I like PEC DEC machines to its works a whole lot of muscles at once. beat the hand and the arm will fall Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dadams Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 that may be true in some cases. Look at Toddzilla he will give you his hand and still beat you with sidepressure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orso Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 that may be true in some cases. Look at Toddzilla he will give you his hand and still beat you with sidepressure. You do have a point, some people have the ability to pull very well with a bent wrist. Jerry Cadorette, Toddzilla, Michael Todd etc. However if you want to become a well rounded puller who has the ability to adapt to different styles you need to have a strong hand. And if i am not wrong I do believe Toddzilla has a very strong hand but also the ability to pull from strange angles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dadams Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 No Todds hand isnt strong. Ron Bath said his hand is crap, he used a different word tho. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orso Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 No Todds hand isnt strong. Ron Bath said his hand is crap, he used a different word tho. Remember Ron has one of the strongest hands of all time. I also agree with you some people a strong as hell pulling with a bent wrist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dadams Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 ya ron has a strong hand. did you hear about the ron bath devon larratt supermatch. it in a week 1/2 or 2 weeks. whats you name if you dont mind me asking? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aftershock Posted June 1, 2006 Share Posted June 1, 2006 (edited) I would have to say that pullups are the way to go because it trains your tendons to support all your muscles force better than weights would. To be more specific, say that i weigh 200lbs, so 1 pullup would be equal to 100 pounds per arm. So that means that if i can do 20 pullups thats the same as pulling 100 pounds 20 times with one arm. And eventually, after time and hard work, you could train using one arm pullups, so thats pulling 200lbs for one arm and thus bridging the gap between tendon and muscle strength, which are the key elements to armwrestling. But you never know, i could be wrong, i pretty sure that guys that curl could thrash me. But the only way to tell is to start two guys out at the same time in their training routines with one that curls and one that does pullups. And at the end of the designated time frame, make them armwrestle. But until then, I have to go with pullups. Edited June 1, 2006 by Aftershock Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unseenbeat Posted June 1, 2006 Share Posted June 1, 2006 I say mix it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bender Posted August 7, 2006 Share Posted August 7, 2006 Good post. As a recent studier of Arm Wrestling, I’ve absorbed some good thoughts. Thanks. Also… : ) I played tennis for a few years, but switched to Racquet ball as I found it more exciting. To date, I still mess up a few Racquet Ball shots as my childhood muscle memory takes over my reflexes and I use a tennis arm-swing instead of a RB wrist shot. The power zones are completely different, and the movements are, I would say, drastically different. BTW, raquet ball is all wrist strength, speed and power. So back to arm wrestling… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goatman Posted September 9, 2006 Share Posted September 9, 2006 A number of years ago, my brother lived with me, and I watched him do pull-ups from the bottom of the stairs at our apartment. He was eighteen, or so. Not too long after that he competed in an amateur armwrestling contest, with no real experience, and snapped the arm of one of the leading guys. I think because not only was he doing pull-ups but he was incorporating grip training into it due to the awkward grip he did with the pull-ups. Myself, I have never competed, but have recently armwrestled people I know. Back when I was in the army, and earlier, I had no armwrestling strength. Anybody could beat me. When I got into grip training, and closing the #3, nobody around me could beat me. I know I wouldn't stand up to a real armwrestler, but I believe that grip and wrist training are paramount to armwrestling- that and technique. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomY Posted September 9, 2006 Share Posted September 9, 2006 Speaking about pullups, are you guys talking about underhand or overhand? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
verdigriz Posted September 10, 2006 Share Posted September 10, 2006 (edited) Speaking about pullups, are you guys talking about underhand or overhand? Good question.... It comes down to what mimics armwrestlig the most...underhand or overhand? Your hand is closer to the palms up when armwrestling than palms down, also palms up puts the bicep into a strong position, helping in pulling the arm closer towards you..so to cut a long answer short, palms up is better imo for armwrestling. Edited September 10, 2006 by verdigriz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomY Posted September 11, 2006 Share Posted September 11, 2006 Thats how i've always done them so its a releif not having to ajust to overhand. Would thickbar pullups be more benificial? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unseenbeat Posted September 11, 2006 Share Posted September 11, 2006 Thats how i've always done them so its a releif not having to ajust to overhand. Would thickbar pullups be more benificial? Do lots of different kinds of pullups. Overhand, underhand, neutral grip, mixed grips, hands close together, far apart, one hand on a towel, pullups on a rope, on a wall, etc. You move through lots of angles when armwrestling, so it's good to mix it up. As for thickbar pullups, they certainly would be very beneficial, as your hand would be more open, like when grabbing a hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomY Posted September 11, 2006 Share Posted September 11, 2006 Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyle102887 Posted September 11, 2006 Share Posted September 11, 2006 Another reason to do pullups and back work.....to prevent imbalances. Which will set you back a little while.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unseenbeat Posted September 16, 2006 Share Posted September 16, 2006 Another reason to do pullups and back work.....to prevent imbalances. Which will set you back a little while.... Which is a reason to do pressing work too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knyaz Posted October 1, 2006 Share Posted October 1, 2006 Great post, Pullups are great, and mixing them up is key also , Hammer, Bicep Curls Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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