Holes Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 i just started the high volume(variation of it) follow my blog to see my results Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonny Posted July 1, 2005 Share Posted July 1, 2005 I tried this approach yesterday doing sets of 30-40 reps with my trainer and I found that after 4 or 5 sets, I couldn't close the gripper at all anymore! Even after a 5-10 minute rest, I could barely close the thing still. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vice Posted July 5, 2005 Share Posted July 5, 2005 This is an interesting idea, and much needed because I'm looking for a routine to use after my next cycle of KTA. Gamidon, or anyone else, how are you're results so far? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patrick Posted July 5, 2005 Share Posted July 5, 2005 Check out my workout log titled volume training to see my results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamidon Posted July 7, 2005 Author Share Posted July 7, 2005 This is an interesting idea, and much needed because I'm looking for a routine to use after my next cycle of KTA.Gamidon, or anyone else, how are you're results so far? ← I have had several things occur that I would like to mention. My hands have had a dramatic change and much tougher than they have ever been. The skin is much thicker and now I have very little trouble with my hands holding up. I was able to close my #3 (the easier one of my two originals) I have since gone through and did another round, I have beaten everyone of my previous PRs. It is my opinion (if you disagree that is OK with me) that the forearms like the calves can be trained more frequent than any of the major body parts like legs or chest. Your hands and forearms will adapt to the higher training frequency and as you progress up in grippers you will change to a lower frequency higher intensity phase. This also works as a form of peaking and I believe it is very effective. I also believe in changing up your routine, so a round of KTA before or after would create huge gains since it is a drastic change from this approach. It is also my opinion (I could be wrong again so those that disagree don't feel threatened) that continuing to do singles or negatives will eventually show a diminishing return. The law of diminishing returns seems to apply to a whole lot if things including grippers (I believe SMP76 is the one who posted on this concept to which I totally agree). As with everything, listen to your body, you are different from everyone else, so you can be the best judge of what works for you if you do your own experiments. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toboku Posted July 7, 2005 Share Posted July 7, 2005 im on my last week of this, i did my max gripper on monday being a hg200 which is about a 1.3 for me i tried negatives on the hg250 but i cant hold it closed at all after i cheat it closed when i did it on tuesday, so yesterday i tried doing my max gripper to failure and then cheating it closed and holding it for a negative and do sets of this till i cant hold it closed at all since this is the first time ive done negatives, anyone let me know if i should go back to the 250 even though it opens my hands quite easily? with the 200 when i cheat it closed i can usually keep it closed for a few seconds before it forces my hands open at all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vice Posted July 7, 2005 Share Posted July 7, 2005 This is an interesting idea, and much needed because I'm looking for a routine to use after my next cycle of KTA.Gamidon, or anyone else, how are you're results so far? ← Your hands and forearms will adapt to the higher training frequency and as you progress up in grippers you will change to a lower frequency higher intensity phase. This also works as a form of peaking and I believe it is very effective. I also believe in changing up your routine, so a round of KTA before or after would create huge gains since it is a drastic change from this approach. It is also my opinion (I could be wrong again so those that disagree don't feel threatened) that continuing to do singles or negatives will eventually show a diminishing return. The law of diminishing returns seems to apply to a whole lot if things including grippers Greg ← Interesting post. I think I may give this approach a try when I start working grippers again in a few weeks. I'm thinking about doing a cycle of this, followed by a modified cycle of KTA, and then possibly followed by a grease the groove type cycle where I do gripper work spread throughout the day. Anything to keep the body from adapting and slowing my gains. I've learned from past experience that once my grip progress slows, so does my motivation, so I'm working extra hard to develop as many effective workout routines as possible. I appreciate your post, it has given me a great idea that I never would of had. I'll be sure to start a blog once my gripper work gets underway, as a way to track my progress and hopefully maintain my motivation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holes Posted July 8, 2005 Share Posted July 8, 2005 that's alot of high intensity workout plans all in a row that's really intense i'd like to know how that goes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vice Posted July 8, 2005 Share Posted July 8, 2005 (edited) I'll definitely start a log and keep everyone updated. This will be pretty intense but my hands seem to feel good the next day even during the last few weeks of KTA when I'm killin em, so I think this will work well for me because my hands seem to recover fairly quick. Edited July 8, 2005 by Vice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHRUG Posted July 8, 2005 Share Posted July 8, 2005 Gamidon, I just read all your posts and I think this is a great program. I heard you guys were doing some crazy volume stuff but I never took the time to read up on it until today. I am gonna start this program since I am training grip a ton right now because of my PT. I have been training the grippers hard again for the past two weeks and can't wait to start this program today. I am really stoked about this bro, great idea by you and Dave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHRUG Posted July 8, 2005 Share Posted July 8, 2005 By the way, do you use any filed grippers for BTR training and do you do hot/cold therapy after your training sessions. If you don't, I think both of these would benefit the program a ton and I am gonna incorporate them into my training of the program. The hot/cold soaks have always really helped me with recovery time, what do you think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aeroman Posted July 8, 2005 Share Posted July 8, 2005 Maybe I missed this, but do you set aside a block of time each day to do several hundred reps or do you do it throughout the day? Are both ways benficial? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamidon Posted July 8, 2005 Author Share Posted July 8, 2005 By the way, do you use any filed grippers for BTR training and do you do hot/cold therapy after your training sessions. If you don't, I think both of these would benefit the program a ton and I am gonna incorporate them into my training of the program. The hot/cold soaks have always really helped me with recovery time, what do you think? ← Shrug, My #1 and #2 are filed. I use them as grippers for the volume training and they provide some BTR training. I don't do any other BTR work. OK so here is an opinion and once again I could be wrong. The BTR gripers I do have were filed to increase the level of difficulty not extend the range of training. The reference to squatting below parallel and make sure you go deeper in training is only accurate in that mechanically your leverage is worse as you go deeper, therefore if you train deeper the contest depth would theoretically be easier with the same weight so you do not get a surprise. With grippers the depth in a contest or anything else is the same so training to that depth is all you really need. I am sure others will disagree and that is perfectly OK. I am only stating my opinion and I know I could be wrong. So please do not get your undies in a bunch if you disagree. I would love to hear your thoughts on this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rekx Posted July 8, 2005 Share Posted July 8, 2005 very interesting and useful discussion guys! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamidon Posted July 8, 2005 Author Share Posted July 8, 2005 (edited) Maybe I missed this, but do you set aside a block of time each day to do several hundred reps or do you do it throughout the day? Are both ways benficial? ← I think doing them all at once is better. Everytime I say something I always say it is my opinion and I could be wrong.... Here is what I base my opinion on: REST.... Rest is just as important as the work. By doing the grippers in one block you can get 22-23 hours of rest until the next session. This I believe is important since you are going to do this 5 days in a row. Others will tell you that doing them throughout the day is good. I go to failure on a set by set basis, and go to failure on a workout basis then I rest as long as I can. This makes a 1-2 hour period very difficult and brutal and provides me 22-23 hours to rest. Now that is me. You are a different individual and your results may vary from mine. As with everything else try it both ways for a few days and see which way provides you with the best gains for your body. I am not arrogant enough to think that I know all or even that I am right. I just do what I feel works best for me and share it so others can consider it for themselves. All of us are different and you will find what works for one does not work for all. Hard work, lots of rest and good eating should always be primary items to focus on if you want to get the most out of what you do. Good luck and work hard, I would rather be tough than strong anyway.... Edited July 8, 2005 by gamidon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toboku Posted July 8, 2005 Share Posted July 8, 2005 well today is my last day of this high volume workout, last day of negatives, then im takin a week off i think my hands have definitely toughened up, no question, and im able to rep a gripper i could not close when i started this wanna see my strength after a good amount of rest as i feel as if my forearms are always worn out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamidon Posted July 8, 2005 Author Share Posted July 8, 2005 well today is my last day of this high volume workout, last day of negatives, then im takin a week off i thinkmy hands have definitely toughened up, no question, and im able to rep a gripper i could not close when i started this wanna see my strength after a good amount of rest as i feel as if my forearms are always worn out ← That is really good news, congrats on the new PRs... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHRUG Posted July 8, 2005 Share Posted July 8, 2005 That is an interesting view on the BTR closes gamidon and I have to tell you that the more I think about it the more I agree with you. The reason it makes a unfiled gripper of the same difficulty easier is because it truely is easier to close due to the fact that it is unfiled and therefore does not take as many pounds of force to close as the same filed gripper, not because you have to close it farther. I do however think that grippers filed an extreme amount makes it harder for guys with really big and thick hands to close the gripper due to the fact that you have to close it farther because of the meat of your hand often gets pinched in between the handles. Both Big Steve and I have experienced this in the past with extremely filed grippers. What are your thoughts on this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamidon Posted July 8, 2005 Author Share Posted July 8, 2005 That is an interesting view on the BTR closes gamidon and I have to tell you that the more I think about it the more I agree with you. The reason it makes a unfiled gripper of the same difficulty easier is because it truely is easier to close due to the fact that it is unfiled and therefore does not take as many pounds of force to close as the same filed gripper, not because you have to close it farther. I do however think that grippers filed an extreme amount makes it harder for guys with really big and thick hands to close the gripper due to the fact that you have to close it farther because of the meat of your hand often gets pinched in between the handles. Both Big Steve and I have experienced this in the past with extremely filed grippers. What are your thoughts on this? ← I agree with the pinching skin and too much filing being a problem. I filed my dogleg side of the grippers so if I hold them dogleg to the palm I get pinched. I now use those grippers backwards and would never recommend filing the dogleg side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smp76 Posted July 8, 2005 Share Posted July 8, 2005 I always filed my nondog-legged side of the gripper just so I didn't have to think about which side was doglegged or not. I just knew, shaved was in my finger tips. I was also wondering what you guys thought about the idea that was brought to my attention by Austin Slater and that is that the real purpose of a Beyond Range Gripper was to train that last sticking point that most people struggle with in getting that final close on goal grippers. It seems logical to me that if you never close or train that area of a sweep then your hands will not adapt to the specific area of motion. The cut or shaved gripper allows this to happen. What do you think? I also like them for negatives in that specific range. Any thoughts? -Sean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamidon Posted July 8, 2005 Author Share Posted July 8, 2005 This is a good discussion... Sean when you close a gripper and slam the handles shut with force you are doing an isometric movement and the force you generate can be huge. Isometrics gain you strength in a window (in otherwords there is some improvement in more than the narrow angle you are isolating the movement to). This would indicate to me that it would strengthen your grip PAST the point of closure. I like to count click and focus on getting them as loud as I can. This I believe helps my closes out when I go for a max. KTA has a technique for overcrushing and strap holds both terrific ways to improve your close. Everything said, if BTR is what you believe works for you then have at it. I am not saying it doesn't help but I am saying in my case I did it to increase the level of difficulty, that the actual increase in close has not really translated to a gain I can quantify. Here is why I say that. I could close my filed #2 all day but yet I was still unable to close the #3. I was training past the close but the problem I had at that point was not a ROM issue but a lack of strength. In fact Morton described it as "Your just too much of a pussy to close it"... This I unfortunately had to agree with Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smp76 Posted July 8, 2005 Share Posted July 8, 2005 Greg, Great point on the BTR gripper and the power of the over crush. Personally I like both but do nitice that I am strongest on my #3 when I have been doing a series of overcrushes with my cut #2. KTA makes many references to the benefits of over crushes and I know Bill would agree they do help a lot and it is most beneficial if you can maintain the "power spike" upon the click that you refer to. My personal rule of thumb was that when doing over crushes I would use my cut #2 and shave the gripper until I was only able to over crush it for no more than seven seconds of high intensity, shaking crush! Then when my over crush increased to beyond seven seconds in that intense, shaking over crush I would just shave more until I returned to the below seven second count, most likely four seconds of hard crushing. -Thoughts? -Sean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHRUG Posted July 8, 2005 Share Posted July 8, 2005 HAHA, that is a funny quote by Dave. I will have to use that one on my buddy in my home town that trains the grippers. It will piss him off, . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHRUG Posted July 8, 2005 Share Posted July 8, 2005 Man, I am gonna have my hands full with this new program. I just ordered 10 new grippers and 2 bottles of liquid chalk so I can take the grippers with me everywhere and not make a mess. I have just been taking a ziplock freezer bag full of chalk with me when I am training on the go but now this will be much better plus I got 10 new grippers on the way I am a happy gripster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smp76 Posted July 8, 2005 Share Posted July 8, 2005 This is a good discussion...Sean when you close a gripper and slam the handles shut with force you are doing an isometric movement and the force you generate can be huge. Isometrics gain you strength in a window (in otherwords there is some improvement in more than the narrow angle you are isolating the movement to). This would indicate to me that it would strengthen your grip PAST the point of closure. I like to count click and focus on getting them as loud as I can. This I believe helps my closes out when I go for a max. Greg ← Greg, I also was thinking that the need for BTR grippers were to use a more challenging gripper than you current PR for BTR. I know that most only use BTR grippers that they can currently close but when I was still unable to close my #3 I was using a new 2005 #3 that I cut for negatives. The benefits seemed to really help. However, I was also doing a number of cut #2 over crushes which is an unaccounted for variable that I did not isolate during that round of training. -Sean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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