High Volume

[gamidon]

Here is a post to allow everybody a chance to critique what it is Dave and I are currently doing and discuss the training in general. Many have asked what were are actually doing, the actual workouts are in my blog. I post almost daily a retarded rambling dialog of an moron (me). As always these are my opinions and I could be wrong. I set goals, and push myself to do insane things. This may not be smart or work for all, but I pride myself on being mentally tough, and in the end maybe that is all I will be. Fortunatly that is good enough for me. Are other approaches better, possibly. My approach is making changes when what I am doing loses effectiveness. I want to give you background on what we do so you can see some method to our madness. I am not good at grippers and I hate doing them. I only usually do them for a couple of weeks and then give up. I love bending. Grippers and bending are hard to do at the same time because my hands just get so beat down. So I always end up dropping the grippers. Well now I have an injury that I want to get behind me so I have layed off bending for now.

Here is what we set out to do when Dave and I started the high volume mess we are in.

Our routine is this: Start with an easy gripper (Trainer) and do max reps on it each day, 5 days on 2 days off. The 5 days is in a row. For example I did sets of 100 or so on the trainer and I did about 1000 reps per day. I really had to push to get 100 reps done at the time.

Next week go up a gripper, try not to go up too fast (like a trainer to a #2, go from a trainer to a #1). You want to train to failure on each set and do as many sets as you can to fail that way too. I couldn’t sleep at night if I felt I could have gotten more that day. Some days I did not do so well, but it was the best I could do that day, usually the next day I would have a killer workout. Dave and I usually had a contest type of thing on the last day of a particular gripper where we pushed ourselves way past insane, knowing that we could take two days off.

On the last week prior to getting to our max gripper we did 4 days of reps and 3 days off and then maxed out. I will go and do one week of negatives for reps and then I will fall back and start over with the trainer and break every previous PR I had as I push myself back toward the #3 again and hopefully double it this time.

Every set is to failure. To give an example on the trainer I did about 10 sets. on the RB260N I do about 8 sets. It is all about feel, I just try to put up enough reps that I know I did my best and then some. I don't want to feel that there were 3 more reps possible when I am done.

What should be happening is your body will adjust to the volume and you will tax muscles that maybe you do not fully utilize on the lower rep work. You are then peaking yourself with the gradual increase in intensity (gripper level) an subsequent decrease in reps. This is a VERY brutal workout and should feel like your hands are on fire most nights. Sometimes I hurt so bad I had to use every ounce of willpower I have to grab the gripper again for another set. My hands have toughened up and I can now fall back to the Trainer and start over and it should actually be easier to do more reps than ever since my skin is now more prepared.

As to overtraining, you will feel like you do it every day. This is my opinion: I think the forearms like the calves can take a lot more punishment and bounce back. I have a real problem with the word overtraining, seems more people are worried about that than undertraining. If people were as cautious about undertraining as they are overtraining there would be a heck of a lot more strong people. You do this type of training to your thighs and you wouldnt be able to walk. Your hands.... They bounce back so fast it isnt even funny.

Example for me:

Trainer 5 on 2 off

#1 5 on 2 off

#2 5 on 2 off

RB240N 5 on 2 off

RB260N 4 on 3 off

Max day #3

Negatives Elite – 4 on 2 off start the day after max.

Start the whole thing over… Change up to something else.. Modify it. You gotta listen to your own body and work things out. Once thing that ALWAYS seems to work is HARD work. When your eyeballs are popping out, your skin is bleeding and you lose your lunch for the sixth time, your going to get stronger when you rest. Hell if you don't get stronger you will be tougher and I will chose tougher anyday of the week and twice on Sunday... I think a round of KTA after this would yield some tremendous gains since it relies on techniques not even done on this approach (strap holds, overcrushes, Heavy reliance on negatives). The change up to and from different training styles may be the jump start you need to moving back into great gains.

Respectfully,

Greg

[tspinillo]

Great stuff!

T!

[Florian Kellersmann]

Thanks for your interesting post about your training, Greg. It is possible for you to do regular weight training and other griptraining (f.e. pinch) while doing this high volume workouts?

[LAHotSauce]

I like that!!!

Good stuff. Nice way to really mix it up!

[nagual]

Now there is a high to low rep approach I really like! I might just try that myself...

I think you hit the head right on the nail with "you will tax muscles that maybe you do not fully utilize on the lower rep work". The supporting muscles should get a real workout that way, which in turn would prepare the hands for more work.

I too think that the hands are dissimilar from other muscles in that you can build both endurance and strength in them much easier.

[GatorGrip]

I guess the proof is in the pudd'in by that I mean Dave closed the 4 for reps. Maybe he has an edge genetically but then again you can't get the full potential out of your genetics unless you optimize your training to tap into those places that people rarely even get close to.

I think this training goes hand in hand with your mind set "Hands You’ll Get Tougher and Stronger or Die Trying" like the old cliché "What doesn't kill you in training will make you stronger in the battle" or even another spin off the Army uses "The more you sweat in training the less you will bleed on the battlefield."

I like the mentality you and Dave scream in this message and the workout log

"You got to get serious with the grippers if your want to get to any serious level of achievment with them"

I also found it pleasantly surprising that you were using the RB gripper with the narrow spread as I just tried a 260N (closed it down to 1/8 or a hair less first squeeze) which fits my 7" hands really well compared the 3 plus inch grippers, especially since I do not use much of a set if at all.

Since I am in recovery myself for the shoulder girdle area and wrist I have become more enthused with grippers rather than sit and do nothing. Maybe my injuries may turn out to have been a blessing in disguise and when I have fully recovered and go back to bending I will be stronger in those weaker areas I had before.

Thanks for sharing this training regimen that no doubt can produce some awesome results.

Your Fellow Grip Fanatic and Bending Bezerker!

GatorGrip

[gamidon]

Thanks for your interesting post about your training, Greg. It is possible for you to do regular weight training and other griptraining (f.e. pinch) while doing this high volume workouts?

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I think you can definetly do regular weight training, do it prior to the grippers... I wouldn't want to be your toes if you did the grippers first and started dropping weights on them EXPECT DEAD HANDS!!!! I also did card tearing and some bending during this so some other things are possible. Gotta be carefule that you dont do much after the grippers since your hands are in a pretty fragile state. I usually went right to bed afterwards as I do grippers late at night.

I am nowhere near the level of you on grippers so I am not suggesting I know any more than anyone else on this. Dave was VERY pessimistic when I convinced him to try this. I think more than anything the changeup really worked for him along with a lot more griping that he is used to. I know he is very happy with the results.

[Lyle]

I get the hands are getting some good size callouses on them but definately interesting.

[Steve B.]

Gamidon,

Did you notice an increase in forearm size with this approach?

As you stated earlier in the post many believe the forearms and calves are better suited for high rep training.A good friend of mine knows the bodybuilder Lee Priest and he said he does high rep training for his forearms 20 -30 rep sets.

[gamidon]

Gamidon,

Did you notice an increase in forearm size with this approach?

As you stated earlier in the post many believe the forearms and calves are better suited for high rep training.A good friend of mine knows the bodybuilder Lee Priest and he said he does high rep training for his forearms 20 -30 rep sets.

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To be honest I don't know if my forearms changed. I definetly feel stronger.

[ryaneverk2]

Thanks a lot for posting that, Greg. It was a good read, and sounds like a great plan to try out. In enjoy the high volume stuff.

[kerbjr]

Sounds cool Have stagnated with negs at this time so I think I will give it a try...Brett

[Bill Piche]

As to overtraining, you will feel like you do it every day. This is my opinion: I think the forearms like the calves can take a lot more punishment and bounce back.

Greg,

This has been the KTA program's premise from day 1. I know everyone does not agree, but that's ok.

You guys are again playing with the bodies alarm response (neat stuff). That's why I have always recommended to people that once through KTA they be very observant and try to figure out their particular alarm response with respect to volume versus rest, etc.

[gaster]

Thanks for sharing Greg. I think this type of of training is something that will work well for many people. I've tried KTA, and I don't want to knock it because I know it has worked for others, but I always had elbow pain from the negatives and that made me stop the program.

I've recently done a bit of volume with my cut trainer and after just a few workouts I did notice some improvements. I recently tested myself on a gripper where at my best a while ago I got it for 3 reps. This time I got it for 4 reps and it almost a 5th. My elbows aren't hurting this time either. I did rip open a big blister on the ring finger of my left hand so I need to take a bit of a break.

Really, that's the only problem with this type of program, the skin on my fingers just can't seem to handle the abuse.

[gamidon]

Thanks for sharing Greg.  I think this type of of training is something that will work well for many people.  I've tried KTA, and I don't want to knock it because I know it has worked for others, but I always had elbow pain from the negatives and that made me stop the program.   

Smitty would know better about what to do with the elbow pain, hit him up with a PM I am sure he would be glad to give you some advice on what the real cause may be. The volume if it help you past it then use it until you feel your gains slowing and try the KTA again. I think once you get past the elbow problem the negatives and overcrushes will blow your grippers up fast.

I've recently done a bit of volume with my cut trainer and after just a few workouts I did notice some improvements.  I recently tested myself on a gripper where at my best a while ago I got it for 3 reps.  This time I got it for 4 reps and it almost a 5th.  My elbows aren't hurting this time either.  I did rip open a big blister on the ring finger of my left hand so I need to take a bit of a break. 

Really, that's the only problem with this type of program, the skin on my fingers just can't seem to handle the abuse.

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Awesome!!!! Only thing - blister... Come on, what would I tell ya if you were over at my place??? I wont say it publically here specially with the no F Bomb rule and extreme vulagrity.... Grab grippers, cry if ya have to.

Greg

[gaster]

Haha, yes I have an idea of what you would tell me. Probably something like, "Here's the deal Paul, go wash the sand out of your ******, then come back and do as many reps with that gripper as you can. Then do a few more sets after that." You would probably make me bend at least grade 5's for volume between sets too.

I don't think the elbow pain is a KTA issue really, I probably just have an imbalance from never doing any extensor work on a regular basis. By that I mean no finger extensor work and no reverse curls for the extensors that move the wrist either. If I did those religously my elbow problems would probably disapear.

[Zakath]

Sounds real nice to build up a very good strength base with grippers!

I even trained something similar previously , but a shorter and not as intense variant where I changed gripper every day like: high rep - medium rep - high rep - max out.

The downside with this training (at least for me) is that it may limit other griptraining and that it may lead to a lower concentration of fast twitch muscles because of the high reps to failure, but I guess my arguments aren't enough. Can't argue with Dave Mortons gripping POWER

Thanks for sharing!

Edited May 26, 2005 by Zakath

[carusom1]

I just finished KTA not too long ago. I enjoyed it and worked great.

Then I wanted something else to do with the grippers. This is just it. That is what I love about this board. People give you an idea and you push yourself harder than you ever thought that you could because you know it is possible.

Nice work Greg and Dave.

[bencrush]

Greg, that was one of the best posts I've ever read. Ever.

I am a bit of a volume slut too. It's been underrated for too long. Now, thanks to you and Dave, I'm guessing it will have a golden period where many people give it an honest shot. Or at least many will add it to what they're currently doing.

[jad]

Great stuff Greg. One question...when you say you can't stand it if you know you could have gotten three more reps; does this mean you train on the gripper until you miss it for a single and then you're done?

Thanks

Josh

[gamidon]

Great stuff Greg.  One question...when you say you can't stand it if you know you could have gotten three more reps; does this mean you train on the gripper until you miss it for a single and then you're done? 

Thanks

Josh

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Well my comments are mostly geared to my most recent workouts. I have been hitting sets of 4-5 with the RB260N and I continue until I cant possibly get another triple or maybe fall into a few sets of doubles. If I was doing the trainer at 100 reps sets I would probably continue until I couldnt get 60 rep sets. I cant give an exact answer, it is mostly by feel. What I always tell people I train with is this, go until you cant do any more, and do three more for me. To me this means go until you feel yourself quit and the PUSH yourself to do more. If you are pushing yourself only you will know it.

Everyone who comes over leaves wondering how I got them to do as much as I did. You can ask TSUK, RJKD12, GASTER or even VeGripper if they left here completely wasted and if I pushed them to do more than they normally would have done. That is what a good training partner is supposed to do. If you have a lazy ass like my training partner, you gotta do it yourself HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

I hope this helps cause it is real hard to describe it, but real easy for me to make you do it if you were here

[jad]

I gotcha, thanks for the speedy response

[gazza]

Greg

Another excellent topic/post.

Yourself and Daves pain tolerance is amazing

What time limit for the reps/sets and rest etc were used.

Also from the trainer to the rb 260n how were the reps performed/how far were the handles opened on each rep as regards each gripper.

[gamidon]

Greg

Another excellent topic/post.

Yourself and Daves pain tolerance is amazing

What time limit for the reps/sets and rest etc were used.

Also from the trainer to the rb 260n how were the reps performed/how far were the handles opened on each rep as regards each gripper.

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Gazza, no time limits I try to do a set as soon as I can. I do everything based on feel, so it is hard to explain. Train doing the next set before you think you are ready and then just gut it out. Don't wait till you think you are ready to go.

The trainer reps were much wider and I even opened them wider and wider as the set progressed if I thought I would get to 100 without paying a high price. The larger grippers I did smaller reps. I figure with the harder grippers I am mostly training the close anyway. The actual rep might be 1/4" when you are at the tougher grippers and you tired. The trainer is 1" to 1.5" and I open to about 2" to provide additional torture as needed. Everything is done by feel. I don't think anyone should be doing the exact same things, those with strong closes but weak sweeps might focus on wider reps, I have a weak close so I really like to keep the gripper in a tight range to get more reps/more work in at that point.

Also, one thing I failed to mention is we try to count clicks, we focus on smacking the gripper together to get the best click sound possible. As you go up in grippers eventually the clicks go away.

Greg

[Holes]

wow that's the gripper workout i've been looking for! only problem is I don't have a set of trainers, greg thank you for your insightfulness into grippers! and keep squeezing those darn things!

also, how many times have you completed this? and do you take any rest in before starting over?