Jump to content

Tns Vs No-set Vs Set


Recommended Posts

Here's a good way to look at it, I think:

Say you can close the #2 with a set, but can't do it no-set.  Then, after working the no-set for a few weeks/months, you can close it no-set.  Wouldn't you have to say that your hands are indeed stronger now than they were w/ the set, or at least for that wide range of motion?  That's how I look at it... I can build the strength to close a gripper w/ a set, and then work on closing it without a set, as well, in order to have the strength throughout the range of motion of my hand, and not just when it's clenched down tight, as in a deep set.

Yeah, except I believe that you are mostly strengthening the close with no-sets aswell, but from a different angle, which gives worse leverage (for most with normal-sized hands atleast). The sweep is still easy in comparison, albeit harder than with a set.

Grip-machines are probably a lot better for strengthening the sweep.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 94
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

  • Gluteus Maximus

    12

  • Wannagrip

    8

  • pdoire

    7

  • nagual

    6

ryaneverk2
Grip-machines are probably a lot better for strengthening the sweep.

I've heard the same about the Ivanko supergripper.... which is why I ordered one, scheduled to get here today. :D I'll probably work with it on negatives and no-sets.

Link to post
Share on other sites

"I think of the grippers as a tool for something else. You can't set in the real world, and if I need some more strength somewhere I want to know."

true and false.

while u may not be able to change the diameter/width/ect of a pipe, or somthign like that, u can on a pair of channel locks, piers. even dykes u can git out on the end and just nip your way thru things. i dont know of anyone that givin a pair of pliers and told to tighten or loosen a nut/bolt would leave them in the original postion. everyone would open them up to #1, git a better bite on the nut/bolt, #2 be able to git your hands fully around the handle to maximise the leverage on handles.

i "set" grippers from the first time i laid hands on them. was never shown or seen a set before.just felt natural to me. maybe cus of the pliers analogy.

as far as total hand strengh goes, id say they all got there place.

Link to post
Share on other sites
foggymountainmuscle
I feel no setting on anything.

I think of the grippers as a tool for something else. You can't set in the real world, and if I need some more strength somewhere I want to know.

I don't care if I can squeeze something once I had a head start- I'll be patient and get strong enough to do the thing straight up.

.02 :mellow

Gripping something you can't wrap your hand around is called pinching. ;)

Link to post
Share on other sites
I feel no setting on anything.

I think of the grippers as a tool for something else. You can't set in the real world, and if I need some more strength somewhere I want to know.

I don't care if I can squeeze something once I had a head start- I'll be patient and get strong enough to do the thing straight up.

.02 :mellow

Gripping something you can't wrap your hand around is called pinching. ;)

don't think you'll anyone will be pinching a 3 closed......

setting aint so bad....put your gripper in a chocker and see how much closer you can get it with no momentum.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I find the set is good for developing crush and the no set good for control of the gripper throughout the entire range of motion.

Differing hand sizes or spread will determine how much control is required by the amount of movement the gripper makes before settling in its final destination.

I have found the set helps when starting out in gripping and if you want to add that something extra, practice the no set or table no set, as it is more impressive if you can just pick a gripper up from a table and crush it when someone can barely set the gripper in their hand.

my 1.063p (at current exchange rate)

Link to post
Share on other sites
"I think of the grippers as a tool for something else. You can't set in the real world, and if I need some more strength somewhere I want to know."

true and false.

while u may not be able to change the diameter/width/ect of a pipe, or somthign like that, u can on a pair of channel locks, piers. even dykes u can git out on the end and just nip your way thru things. i dont know of anyone that givin a pair of pliers and told to tighten or loosen a nut/bolt would leave them in the original postion. everyone would open them up to #1, git a better bite on the nut/bolt, #2 be able to git your hands fully around the handle to maximise the leverage on handles.

i "set" grippers from the first time i laid hands on them. was never shown or seen a set before.just felt natural to me. maybe cus of the pliers analogy.

as far as total hand strengh goes, id say they all got there place.

I think it comes down to what you really want a grip for. Some just train strictly for grippers for the competition of closing them. Others do it as an addition to their PL, work, etc..

Personally I think I'll be switching to no set work once I reach my goal of the number three. I work my grip for wrestling so I need that no set, awkward kind of grip that the no-set grip work would give, or at least I think it would.

My question is the translation from practicing one to the other. Has anyone trained no-set and felt it helped them when setting a gripper? Or did did nothing but set gripper work and felt that that eventually helps no-setting skills? If the two don't really coincide with the other then maybe there isn't a point in doing both.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Rick Browne
don't think you'll anyone will be pinching a 3 closed......

I recall a post by a member named Tou. He posted that when he certified

on the #3, there was another guy named Lemieux that certified at the same

time. Tou posted that Lemieux closed his #3 with straight fingers, no set,

in a pinch fashion. This was about 2 years ago.

Tou and Lemieux are French Canadiens and Tou posted Lemieux participated

in the Canadien Strongman circuit.

Tou was/is a member in good standing and he was a class act

when he was active on the board

Link to post
Share on other sites
kyle102887

My thoughts......I could close the #1 with a set when i first got it but couldn't no set it....couldn't get the #2 past half way......after closing the #2 with a set......I can no set the #1 easy.....and can almost no set the Master tetting gripper.....so my advice is.....go for the set gripper closes....then once you reach your goal the #3 or #4 or w/e......then work on no setting that.....it's in my oppinion quicker and a better way of doing it.....but its up to the person themselves......you guys have more experience thatn me.....

Link to post
Share on other sites
don't think you'll anyone will be pinching a 3 closed......

I recall a post by a member named Tou. He posted that when he certified

on the #3, there was another guy named Lemieux that certified at the same

time. Tou posted that Lemieux closed his #3 with straight fingers, no set,

in a pinch fashion. This was about 2 years ago.

Tou and Lemieux are French Canadiens and Tou posted Lemieux participated

in the Canadien Strongman circuit.

Tou was/is a member in good standing and he was a class act

when he was active on the board

That sound physically impossible. Against his thumb?

That's the only way you could keep both finger joints straight.

And how would you even keep the gripper in place, steady?

Sorry, sounds like a crock.

Link to post
Share on other sites
tspinillo
don't think you'll anyone will be pinching a 3 closed......

I recall a post by a member named Tou. He posted that when he certified

on the #3, there was another guy named Lemieux that certified at the same

time. Tou posted that Lemieux closed his #3 with straight fingers, no set,

in a pinch fashion. This was about 2 years ago.

Tou and Lemieux are French Canadiens and Tou posted Lemieux participated

in the Canadien Strongman circuit.

Tou was/is a member in good standing and he was a class act

when he was active on the board

That sound physically impossible. Against his thumb?

That's the only way you could keep both finger joints straight.

And how would you even keep the gripper in place, steady?

Sorry, sounds like a crock.

Here is the thread.

http://www.gripboard.com/index.php?showtop...&st=0&p=48994

Very impressive.

T!

Link to post
Share on other sites
DAN PRAYDIS
:blink when you buy a gripper it states how much pressure to close it at the very end of the close is the max pressure it takes to close it so a better grip or set should be allowed if you go to buy a pair of gloves they are sold in small medium and large not one size fits all how many people can bench there max weight if they stop 4 inches from there chest and press not many and fingers that wont fit on a gripper wont close a max or try military presses and bring it down to your nose not your chest and press not the same all these rules were made up by some one with to much time on there hand and sure some will say they can shut there gripper anyway they try but can everyone who did it before do it again for the rule and how many grippers are exactly the same poundage ? i have heard of people trying to close there own gripper and failing and going to a grip contest to do someone elses gripper and closing it easy sure there is a little adrenaline but not that much :ohmy
Link to post
Share on other sites
Sybersnott
P.S. I used to study Joe Kinney's #4 close over and over to learn how he set the gripper.

And what did you find out?

I found out - and this is MY observation - that Kinney just positioned it in his hand and rolled the gripper closed. And then.... he clicked the handles together several times. That, my friends, is just unreal.

In my book, it goes down as the greatest gripper close I've ever seen.

To do that with a #3 would be awesome. How he did it with a #4 is beyond me. :ohmy

Link to post
Share on other sites
Jedd Johnson

I have many views on this subject if anyone is willing to listen:

Grippers are some of the least "functional" training implements for hand strength. With that said, it doesn't matter how you close it, there is limited carryover.

However, I do feel that the less set you use, the more impressive the close is.

Personally as long the athlete sets it no further than parallel handles, I don't care. There has to be some limit to the madness.

Another thought - the argument could be made that a set makes it safer to close it, kind of like a bench shirt, maybe, or kind of like using tacky on a stone. Again, some people see these things as cheating also.

I think the important thing about all of these degrees of positioning is that if you say you closed X gripper, but you set the thing to 1/4 inch from closing, then you should have the stones to mention that detail when claiming the feat.

Just some ramblings. Cool topic, Paul.

-Jedd-

Link to post
Share on other sites
ClayEdgin

I work a lot with deep sets and chokers. In fact, gamidon and Dave got on my case one night about it because I hadn't done any unchoked gripper squeezes in a very long time. I had to relearn how to set the gripper recently and think I finally got it dialed in again. I've worked sporadically with choked grippers since December or so and have to say that my overall gripper strength has gone way up. Especially no-set strength.

So for me, using a deep set and chokers a lot has a great carryover to TNS and regular no-set work. After stalling out on the grippers, I've gone from getting my hard #4 to barely parallel with a credit card set to getting it to 3/8 tonight, even after doing a lot of TNS closes with the RB330N. This gives me hope for a #4 certification one day. The sweep is a lot stronger after working with choked grippers

To me, actually training with no-set and TNS closes isn't as valuable as training the last inch of the gripper. The TNS closes demonstrate my strength, while the deep set squeezes build it.

Link to post
Share on other sites
don't think you'll anyone will be pinching a 3 closed......

I recall a post by a member named Tou. He posted that when he certified

on the #3, there was another guy named Lemieux that certified at the same

time. Tou posted that Lemieux closed his #3 with straight fingers, no set,

in a pinch fashion. This was about 2 years ago.

Tou and Lemieux are French Canadiens and Tou posted Lemieux participated

in the Canadien Strongman circuit.

Tou was/is a member in good standing and he was a class act

when he was active on the board

That sound physically impossible. Against his thumb?

That's the only way you could keep both finger joints straight.

And how would you even keep the gripper in place, steady?

Sorry, sounds like a crock.

Here is the thread.

http://www.gripboard.com/index.php?showtop...&st=0&p=48994

Very impressive.

T!

Ok. He said "literaly pinches the handles together". That could mean "literaly" almost anything.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Wannagrip
The TNS closes demonstrate my strength, while the deep set squeezes build it.

This is very interesting. You might be the first to come out and make this statement.

When you think about it, the grippers on the outside don't have as much resistance. When I miss a no-set, it's always at the close. That is, with a gripper I have a shot at no setting. And, they feel injurous if the gripper is too heavy.

To be honest, I prefer to train with a set that's reasonable but not so deep it makes it a close from a 1/4".

Doing a no-set for me becomes more of a trick to demonstrate strength as well.

I am sure specificity comes into play and all that matters is "are you getting stronger?" in whatever way you train.

Link to post
Share on other sites
GarytheDino

I like to train both ways.

I think with a set and chokers are more important. That's where I get the strength from.

I think of a set like someone handing you the weight instead of taking it out of the rack yourself.

The sweep is wasted energy before you do the real work.

On the other hand it is much more impressive to watch a no-set.

I also believe a set takes a certain amount of strength. I have had days I could not even get the gripper set.

I can't set an Elite to parralel but I can close it in a choker set just wider than parallel.

I can close a #3 after pausing to slide in a 1" card to check the depth.

I can sweep the same #3 past that point.

I can close my MM replica with a parralel set.

I can no-set a coc #2.

My best dyno pull is 196. My hands are 7 3/8.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Wannagrip
On the other hand it is much more impressive to watch a no-set.

In my experience, only a knowledgable grip person would know the difference. :)

Lay persons have no clue one way versus another. And lay people far outweight those who know grippers on this planet earth. :cool

Link to post
Share on other sites
On the other hand it is much more impressive to watch a no-set.

In my experience, only a knowledgable grip person would know the difference. :)

Lay persons have no clue one way versus another. And lay people far outweight those who know grippers on this planet earth. :cool

Really...? Very interesting. In my experience, the lay person thinks it's "cheating" when I set it. Only after I explain to them that the gripper only gets harder and that the set is just so I can get my hand around it good, do they understand. I always offer them the gripper and tell them to set it as deep as they like if they think it will make for an easy close. As soon as they start to set it they say somethhing like, "oh, now I see what you mean"

Link to post
Share on other sites
Wannagrip
On the other hand it is much more impressive to watch a no-set.

In my experience, only a knowledgable grip person would know the difference. :)

Lay persons have no clue one way versus another. And lay people far outweight those who know grippers on this planet earth. :cool

Really...? Very interesting. In my experience, the lay person thinks it's "cheating" when I set it. Only after I explain to them that the gripper only gets harder and that the set is just so I can get my hand around it good, do they understand. I always offer them the gripper and tell them to set it as deep as they like if they think it will make for an easy close. As soon as they start to set it they say somethhing like, "oh, now I see what you mean"

Boy they must be knowledgeable lay persons. :) Most people don't even have a clue how to hold it let alone that a set would be "cheating". Take it to a mall and do a little survey. A true lay person is likely to not even know what a store bought gripper looks like.

Lay person is probably not the right term to use. I just looked it up. :) Probably should have used "someone who doesn't train and never has trained with weights or any other progressive resistance".

Link to post
Share on other sites
Bearcat 74

Most people that I have shown my grippers to think that a set is cheating also. This goes from middle school kids, to mechanics, coaches, and plain buisness people. Like jad after some explaining they then see that the gripper gets harder as it is closed.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I have given a #1 gripper to people to try. None of them have held it correctly or used the other hand to assist. All of them have hardly budged the handles. On the other hand my son without coaching right away set the gripper in his average sized hand using the none closing hand. It semed obvious to him that he had to do it to get his fingers in position. He did close the gripper. I have changed my mind about setting being cheating. It is not.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Gluteus Maximus

I understand that there's a kind of sport around grippers and everything; but something doesn't sit well , with me, whipping out a gripper in the first place, let alone 'putting it a certain way.' Bending stuff, I understand- anybody would. The whole point is having strong hands- right? :mellow

I agree with what some guys wrote about using partial movements as a training aid (this thread was really good, by the way- I hadn't thought of it that way), but to show someone 'how strong' you are: If you use a gripper to do it, I think you should at least use one you don't need any help on. :dry

I understand the initial purpose of this thread was to discuss feelings about 'training' only- and for that I say mixing styles, with a foundation and philosophy of strength behind the no-set. :cool

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy policies.