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Poll: Genetics And The #4


pdoire

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I consider closing a #4 gripper to be at the top level of grip strength. However, grippers vary. We cannot assume that all #4 closers closed a #4 of the same strength, whereas a competitive OLY or PL lift has a much smaller margin of varience. Having said that, I do not feel this varience in the #4 grippers would be enough to make closing an "easy" #4 not world class. JMO

Edited by milkbone
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Here's a quote by Charles Fraser, a lifting coach for 50 years, that might be helpful in this thread. It is quoted in the September 2004 issue of MILO.

"It takes about 5 years of regular training without long breaks or serious injuries to reach a level that is about 90% as strong as you will ever become. It takes another five years to achieve that final 10%. The average age of a lifter by the time he becomes a world chapion is 24 to 28. Assuming that the lifter started training in his early or mid-teens, this bears out the ten-year estimate ... Ninety percent of us do not have the heredity to become even national champions, let alnone world champions. A good gauge of your potential, after five years of competition, when you will probably be somewhere between 25 and 30 years of age, is my 80 and 90% principle. If your total has reached 80% of world records, you do not have a chance to go all the way to the top! If you have reached 90%, maybe, just maybe, you do have what is required to reach world champion status."

I think this puts it into perspective. The timelines may be different for grip strength, but I believe this concept holds true for grip as well. I hope this is not a downer for some people, but it does paint a real picture of what you can expect in the iron game.

This assumes that you've spent your entire time training doing everything properly, eating right, lifting right, resting enough, etc. I'd be willing to bet that most people beginning training have 1 to none of these down. Had I known in high school what I now know bout those things I'd be a much stronger individual.

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king crusher

lich, i find it laughable that your clumped tourettes syndrom in your catagory of bad genetics.

theres professional athletes of all types nba,mlb,nfl powerlifting no dought. that compete at this level.

99% of the people with t.s. arnt the 1% you see with extream cases.

Moderator edit: No need for what was the last line of your comment.

It has been edited out.

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lich, i find it laughable that your clumped tourettes syndrom in your catagory of bad genetics.

theres professional athletes of all types nba,mlb,nfl powerlifting no dought. that compete at this level.

99% of the people with t.s. arnt the 1% you see with extream cases.

Moderator edit: No need for what was the last line of your comment.

It has been edited out.

Yeah, your right in fact. Duely noted.

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Dan Cenidoza

Lich,

I like your attitude... best of luck in your pursuit for the #4! Not to put pressure on you, but I'm expecting you to close it - barring injury or a sudden case of tourret syndrome that is. :)

Some advice if I may, stick with it but don't hesitate to cycle the intensity and take time off completely. Practice good hand health and active recovery techniques.

Lastly, don't talk about it, BE ABOUT IT!

Good luck.

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Lich,

I like your attitude... best of luck in your pursuit for the #4!  Not to put pressure on you, but I'm expecting you to close it - barring injury or a sudden case of tourret syndrome that is. :)

Some advice if I may, stick with it but don't hesitate to cycle the intensity and take time off completely.  Practice good hand health and active recovery techniques.

Lastly, don't talk about it, BE ABOUT IT!

Good luck.

It will take time, but it'll happen. Even if the genetics thing is correct (only as an example) then based on my seemingly quit progress up to 9mm on the #3, I have dibs on that #4 list.

Advice I am always open for, and hope that I haven't come off as "too cool" for everyone.

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  • 5 months later...
turtlefiend

I think I'll go ahead and quit grip training. You guys are great at convincing people that they can't do things. Thanks for saving me a lot of time.

(just kidding)

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Captain Crunk

maybe I'm very ignorant of unoffical #4 closers. But with 200+ people certed on the #3 and only 5 on the #4 thats pushing maybe 5% of the people to have seriously trained on grippers.

I think if more people could close the #4 under the offical rules they would have. I think desire is a large part of it but when you go from elite to insane levels of grip power a lot of that is going to be genetics.

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mooinabc1
maybe I'm very ignorant of unoffical #4 closers. But with 200+ people certed on the #3 and only 5 on the #4 thats pushing maybe 5% of the people to have seriously trained on grippers.

I think if more people could close the #4 under the offical rules they would have. I think desire is a large part of it but when you go from elite to insane levels of grip power a lot of that is going to be genetics.

People are dymanic. Well by passing the the Genetic potential use 100% training.

More people use the J.A.G its possible +just that some people donot fully realize what it can do as a serious training tool. A grip revolution in the making.

J.A.G has two workout one for the genetic not gifted to get to next gripper up and the Advanced level for the genetic gifted and the good responder.

I would say focus and knowing where you are going each day and gaining each day will get more people to close the #4 then after the No set will come. In other words gaining and adding weight to the gripper each day will crush any gripper slowly. Just like that toy train I think I can and slowly before the reach the end or the top=I did it.

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Matt Van Weele

For the most part the guys that closed the #4 and will close the #4 have something special. It could be pyhsical or mental gifts. Could be both but for the most part the guy who is average pyhsically or not willing to go balls out will not close the #4. I can promis this. They don't even have to be natural gifts it just comes down to doing it. Working with tenacity until the goal is reached. Theres guys out there walking the street that don't care about strength that could go to the #4 within a few months if not sooner. Guys put together right in their mind and body.

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I have naturally weak hands.

I can close the #2.

I will eventually close the #4

I'm just going to keep doing KTA and training my ass off until I can do it.

that is all ;)

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mooinabc1
For the most part the guys that closed the #4 and will close the #4 have something special. It could be pyhsical or mental gifts. Could be both but for the most part the guy who is average pyhsically or not willing to go balls out will not close the #4. I can promis this. They don't even have to be natural gifts it just comes down to doing it. Working with tenacity until the goal is reached.  Theres guys out there walking the street that don't care about strength that could go to the #4 within a few months if not sooner. Guys put together right in their mind and body.

Sorry grip member no dispected for. Average guy do the training smart and increase the load on a gripper each day will reach any gripper they want.

progress each day. Focus on the next gipper. That where th J.A.G. Comes ever increasing the load. Of course few realize the potential of te J.A.G.

That why with the J.A.G forget about the strap holds and the BTR gripper.

Once you put the J.A.G on the gripper and start gaining look out.

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Matt Van Weele

Your saying the average guy is going to close a #4 by training each day? Also the average guy will not close whatever gripper he wants. Everyone can get better but only a few will be the best. Your genetic limit comes into play here. Having a super strong mind is the ultimate but even with the mind you'll reach a point and for some it will be world class level but to really be the best you need the physical gift with the mind. By the way what is jag?

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mooinabc1
Your saying the average guy is going to close a #4 by training each day? Also the average guy will not close whatever gripper he wants. Everyone can get better but only a few will be the best. Your genetic limit comes into play here. Having a super strong mind is the ultimate but even with the mind you'll reach a point and for some it will be world class level but to really be the best you need the physical gift with the mind. By the way what is jag?

Yes if increase the load of the gripper=micro loading=big load.

Yes use simple math=ok for example you want to the=BBSE to the #4.

That is 20 to 30 pounds between the the two gripper.

How many pound would add each day to get from the BBSE=346 pounds and the #4=365 pounds=Lets say 5 pounds a weeks into 6 weeks=30 pounds or 2 1/2 pounds a week=12 weeks. for 20 pounds=4 weeks that is 5 pounds a weeks or 2 1/2 pounds a week=10 weeks.

6 divided into5 pounds=1 pounds and 2 /16 pounds=each day.

or 1/2 pounds a day=

You can train with the #4. You got to work up slowly by micro loading each day.

If you can close the #3 then goal is the BBE.

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So using this "simple math", if I start squatting with one rep at 200 lbs, and do one rep every day adding 8 oz each time, in just 5 years I will do one rep with 1100 lbs. ` :D This is the old Milo carrying a growing bull each day. There is a strong "bull" connection.

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mooinabc1

Sorry guys you just to closed minded. You guys are just theory not practical.

So There nothing I can do. I know what the J.A.G. can do. If you have not try it you will not understand. There fore Keeping on stick to limited mind set. And keep on what you are doing.

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Gluteus Maximus

:D I am happy for anyone doing anything good for themselves. I read about the J.A.G., and although I've never tried it- I definitely feel it makes sense. The man 'selling' the idea obviously isn't looking to get rich from it- which makes me trust him even more.

:mellow I very much admire jdav's attitude- and I do believe the average man can close the #4. I believe the under average man can close the 4 also, if he has an above average mind.

Good luck!

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Mikael Siversson

I had above average strength (also in grip) before I started with weight training. I have trained with grippers for 3 1/2 years now. My progress over the last 1 1/2 years indicates that I will close a #4 after a total of 20-25 years of gripper training. Injury will probably stop me before I reach that goal though. Magnus Samuelsson, who most would regard as slightly above average in overall strength (including grip) has worked with grippers on and off for several years. He can do a double with a #4. If the average man can close a #4 he should be able to do 20 or more full reps with a #4 at any time with ease. As stated by Old Guy, common sense is not very common here and neither is a general understanding of things such as the Bell curve distribution. If you "below average genetics" guys believe that you can close a #4, I would suggest that you instead use your outstanding attitude and pursue some more high profile sports that could even bring you a decent income. Microload your way to a new WR in athletics, perhaps high jump.

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Yes but it has become like a greatly over repeated TV commercial. This is the Gripboard . Not the do it my way my way is better board. It's like the religious fanatic that wants you to convert to his superior and one and only true religion, and just will not stop preaching about it.

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Matt Van Weele

So you workout everyday. When do you recover? Oh yeah I forgot the hands are different they don't need to recover. This isn't fantasy land there are limits. It ain't brain surgery just common sense. It's also good to hear more guys saying they will close the #4. I always liked reading that list line in milo write ups. "I will close the #4!" To my n knowledge Heath Sexton, Dave, Tommy and Nathan are the only ones to do it. Then theres the Swede also. What happened to everyone else? Maybe there calcualtors broke therefore they had to discontinue jag.

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Tom of Iowa2
If you "below average genetics" guys believe that you can close a #4, I would suggest that you instead use your outstanding attitude and pursue some more high profile sports that could even bring you a decent income.

:laugh:laugh:laugh

If you don't close a # 3 within a few weeks,couple of months tops of working at it.....IMHO,you'll never close the #4.

Edited by Tom of Iowa2
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If simple maths and microloaded progression is the whole story. Then maybe someone will take the trouble to calculate the day hour and minute that they will close a #4. For example I will close it at 10 am on February 23rd 2007. I am right on track.

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mooinabc1
If simple maths and microloaded progression is the whole story. Then maybe someone will take the trouble to calculate the day hour and minute that they will close a #4. For example I will close it at 10 am on February 23rd 2007. I am right on track.

I say try it before bashing it and donot see you bashing the KTA program.

Yes there a wotkout from going to BBSM to #3 is a 4 weeks to 5 weeks workout program and 2 reps a day.

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