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Poll: Genetics And The #4


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king crusher

ok, geetics play a big role. mobsterone, you conterdicted yourself awhile back when saying "look at this 150 pound guy he outdoes so and so and i weigh 100 lb more" oviously his geetics are better then yours.

oldguy said it right its not about genetic size its about the things you cant see.

its the NATURAL size and streght and most of all...ATTACHMENT POINTS of your tendons and ligimants.

the ATTACHMENT POINTS control your LEVRAGE which is the biggest determaning factor.

thats like a 130 lb guy saying if i try really hard i will play in the nfl or win the wsm.

PLEASE. theres a differance between wanting to do something and having it be a distant dream that you will never relize.

someone said 70% for a 3 and 50% for a 4.

well thats way off, im sorry.

take this board for example. arguably the best, i mean VERY BEST grippers hang out here...its your friggin passion. so are avg would be ALOT HIGHER then mainstream america. correct?

well 70% of us and 50% dont close the 4. un;less your not trying hard. please i hear about everyone ripping there hands up and all this stuff. you try plenty and still only a few can do a 4.

a 4 and a 3 for that matter are OUT OF REACH FOR ALOT OF PEOPLE.

done and done.

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someone said 70% for a 3 and 50% for a 4.

well thats way off, im sorry.

That was my estimate for a lifelong singleminded devotion to closing a gripper. If nothing else in life mattered, and someone had 50 years to train, live, eat, sleep gripers, didn't have to work or do anything other than gripping, I think 70% could close the #3 before they died.

But comeon, nobody has that devotion. We all have desires like going on vacation, watching movies, needing to have a job, whatever, which reduces the odds of the average person closing a certain gripper.

-

My statement about not being able to run a 2.5 hour marathon was based on my V02 Max. I think even the best estimates are that one can only improve your V02 max by 20% or so. Even with a 50% improvement in my V02 max, I was calculated to have a slower than 2.5 hour fastest marathon, so I logically accepted that it was outside my potential. I never ran a super fast marathon, but I did run a marathon a month for a year, which required a different type of training and devotion.

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mobsterone

Are you referring to his genetics for hand strength or in general as I was. Cos I seem to recall Joe was good for hi reps with 300-400lbs in the squat but never heard of any other big lifts. The squat and hand strength don't tie in. Then I seem to recall Nathan being an unusally good presser, in relation to bodyweight as well as a CoC 4 and Red nail bender but take a look at him. Neither Nathan nor Joe are strong overall but are in one or two ways.

I also agree with the arguments about % of population - this board is made up of the top 20% or so in relation to grip strength and yet how many here can shut the CoC 4 - a handful (pun intended he he).

To me that shows that the main reason Nathan et al shut the CoC 4 is sheer grim determination rather than being set up well - tendons and so on - sheer hard work, IMO, got them where they are. Read and reread the IM CoC book - esp Joe's section, watch and rewatch Joe's video. He is, dare I say it, almost too stupid to take not being able to do it. And thank god for that becuase he didn't accept defeat and succeeded.

99% of those that (again in my opinion) have it in their minds to go as far as their genetics allow them are setting themselves up to fail. I'm not saying you can lift after muscle etc tear off the bone but I guarantee you you'll stop well before that would ever happen. How do you know what your limitations are, how strong you'll become, how good you'll be.

I think the reason I do what I do, and I've said it before on this board, is I don't wanna pass on having done 'just so' or only giving half asses attempts. My ego demands I do stuff that will be remembered on my passing. Shit you only live once and so if I die squeezing a CoC 4 so damn hard that sparks fly at least I'll have pushed myself.

Now that's 'done and done' baby!! :D

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As a man thinkth in his heart, therefore he is.

If you want it get it! :angry:

As for Dave's gene pool. That double y chromosone cames in handy.

Your family tree must fork also. :whistel

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someone said 70% for a 3 and 50% for a 4.

well thats way off, im sorry.

-

My statement about not being able to run a 2.5 hour marathon was based on my V02 Max. I think even the best estimates are that one can only improve your V02 max by 20% or so. Even with a 50% improvement in my V02 max, I was calculated to have a slower than 2.5 hour fastest marathon, so I logically accepted that it was outside my potential. I never ran a super fast marathon, but I did run a marathon a month for a year, which required a different type of training and devotion.

The thing is a good VO2 max is only one component of a great runner. Pain tolerance, bio mechanics (how well you physically run), and lactate threshold all are extremely important.

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Scott Styles

I think the 3 is obtainable by most, over the long term. I'm not exceptional in my strength potential, but I can see myself closing it in 3-5 years.

The thing is though, human potential is distributed on a bell curve. I would guess not even 5% of the male population has the potential for a #4. If those closing the #4 are not genetically gifted, the implication is that the geneticly gifted should be closing much harder grippers - at least 20-30% harder. That doesn't seem to be the case.

Though, I do believe if those involved in professional basketball / football could be persuaded to seriously train the grippers, something stronger than a #4 would fall. But there we are talking about the top .0001% of the population.

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Look at kurt and what he has done in a short amount of time. sure, 197lbs might be a bit of an exaggeration  :D but he worked his ass of to close a 3 and bend grade 8's.

97lbs in 9th to 184 end of Senior.Why wouyld I exaggerate? No exaggeration at all. I was the same weight as my girlfriend at the time and half the girls in 9th grade, it sucked dude Ill show you pictures sometime. But in the end I didnt want to be like that anymore I wanted to be the strongest around. I started bench press with 75lbs dude lol.

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I think the 3 is obtainable by most, over the long term.  I'm not exceptional in my strength potential, but I can see myself closing it in 3-5 years.

The thing is though, human potential is distributed on a bell curve.  I would guess not even 5% of the male population has the potential for a #4.  If those closing the #4 are not genetically gifted, the implication is that the geneticly gifted should be closing much harder grippers - at least 20-30% harder.  That doesn't seem to be the case.

Though, I do believe if those involved in professional basketball / football could be persuaded to seriously train the grippers, something stronger than a #4 would fall.  But there we are talking about the top .0001% of the population.

There is no way I will not close the #4 Eventully. There is also no way I can be considered genetically gifted. If everyone wanted it that bad, everyone could have it eventully.

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Wannagrip

I'll add some realism to the rhetoric. ;)

If you don't get to the #3 fairly easily, don't plan on getting the #4.

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Ok, so how do we know the limits to our individual genetic capabilities?

We must set lofty goals...work hard and smart..persist and persevere.

Since I don't currently know my own potential how else would I find out?

Maybe we will find our own wall...maybe we will find a way thru it.

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If I had a club where you got certified based on how many digits of PI one could recite, where:

trainer = 10 digit

1 = 100 digits

2 = 1,000 digits

3 = 10,000 digits

4 = 10,000,000 digits

We'd probably agree that determination is required for all rankings, and the major factor in the early rankings, but moving down the list, more and more exceptional genetic capability is required.

At what point would 50% of the population not be able to achieve a ranking, with unlimited perserverance? Who knows. We all aren't capable of the #4, running a 4 minute mile, talking 200 words a minute, typing 200 words a minute, eating 100 hot dogs in two minutes, being able to contort into a suitacase, remembering million digits of pi, calculating 10 digit square roots by brain alone, or any other exception thing.

Only one way to find out if you can close the #4 with unlimited perserverance...

I think if we were all born with a sheet in our hand showing what we were capable of in life, life would be pretty boring indeed.

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Wannagrip
Ok, so how do we know the limits to our individual genetic capabilities?

We must set lofty goals...work hard and smart..persist and persevere.

Since I don't currently know my own potential how else would I find out?

Maybe we will find our own wall...maybe we will find a way thru it.

You set goals and then set new goals as you move closer to the interim goals.

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I'll add some realism to the rhetoric. ;)

If you don't get to the #3 fairly easily, don't plan on getting the #4.

here, here. May not be romantic, but I concur. Please ignore all my posts on this topic and refer to the above. :yikes

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It's weird really, I would never possibly be satisfied with closing the 3. My goal is the 4, not the 3. The 3 to me is just a step to the 4. I never realized people could be satisfied with closing the 3 until I started using the gripboard.

Keep in mind that there's a lot more to grip strength than closing grippers. Maybe you'll close a 4 but you'll never get to pinch two 45s or lift the blob or bend a red. If you're going to be strong all around it takes some sacrifice...

As for me, I'm not giving up hope of closing a 4 some day. Maybe some new techniques or training principles will come along to help me get it. But right now my goal is the elite, if I get that, my new goal will be a harder elite.

Edited by AP
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Rick Walker

I think it comes down to how bad you really want it. I get bored real easy. I cannot imagine putting in the time and effort that it would require for me to close the #4. It make take years and years of focusing on 1 goal. The plateaus, the down times, the injuries, etc. etc. It would take a level of focus that I am not ready to reach right now.

I find it more enjoyable to do all things. That is just me. It keeps my total hand strength going up, and keeps me from getting bored. Maybe some day I will make a legitimate run at it.

Do I think everyone has a chance? No. But, if you want to close it, you have to believe in your heart that you do. Worst case is you never close it. But, I guarantee you get some damn strong hands along the way!

Rick Walker :rock

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Scott Styles

"Ok, so how do we know the limits to our individual genetic capabilities?"

I think after some experience in an area you can get a pretty good idea by comparing with others. For instance about a year ago, I took a lot of time off training and then needed to get back into shape. I made two observations:

1. Turns out I can go from being completely detrained cardiovascularly to running 5-6 miles 3x a week over a matter of about 2 months. It's easy for me, I have a lot of potential for endurance activity. I never really try to get better, just showing up is enough. My heart rate goes down to about 54bpm.

2. Meanwhile, over that same time period I was working on my front squat. I progressed by leaps and pounds (about 20) all the way up to doing 115lbs for reps. Every bit of progress was brutal and painful. The only workouts where I might stand a chance of getting better were when I ate well all day, took a nap before the workout, and cranked the music to get psyched.

Obviously I am not wired to be near the top of the field in strength.

Accepting my genetic potential makes it much easier to enjoy the process rather than focus on some unachievable result. Instead of being frustrated that I still can't even close the #2, I can enjoy that I'm almost there.

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I think you have to set one goal and one only!!

Then focus exclusively on this singlemindedly!!

Didn't Brookfield say "If you want to get good at bending nails...

then bend nails!!"

Same applies to grippers.

That is, to achieve your genetic potential.

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Scott Styles

The running did impact my training, no doubt about that. But look at the numbers, I'm thinking about. Let's assume that the only strength progress I made was due to practicing the movement. So with dialed in form as a healthy 22 year old I could only front squat 115lbs.

I'd being willing to guess at 22 most guys who ultimately break the 600lb barrier with the squat could do a whole lot more than 115 the first time they touched a bar, let alone with 2 months to practice their form.

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IMO gentics are a major factor. It's that way with all athletics. Almost anyone, at least a guy, would rather be a pro-athlete than whatever they are currently doing. A good friend once said, "There are two kinds of people in this world, Pro-athletes and those that wish they were." I don't think it is will that seperates people, it's genetics.

Anyway, it would be really interesting if some doctor looking into the genetics needed for gripping. I think it is likely a leveralge advantage, likely less visialbe than in some lifts. Maybe mri's of the forearm to find tendon lenght etc. A high percentage of fast twitch fibers is also likely important.

Edited by apdwler
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genitics plays a role in grip strenght.

We all have genes.

But the key to grip strenght is the warm up for added strength this

equalls to faster recovery, vitMINANS LIKE e,c, etc.

This can happen by Squat training, biks exercise, combination of sqauting and

bench press, wereing mitts to bed, cold and warm therapy.

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king crusher

the length and attachment points are what to look at.

i read an artical about were your tendon ties in by your armpit for benching. it was unreal.

all things equal...just a change of 1/8 inch from one guys attachment to the next could result in huge bench number differances!

because the levrage makes it easier to lift x amount of weight.

same gos for grippers im sure.

like wannagrip said. if you cant get thru the 3 fairly easy the 4 is not going to happen unless it happens when your snuggling with your pillow and teddy bear at 4am on a sunday morning.

id say if you cant close a 2 right away you will never get to a 4.

id bet all 4 closers did a 2 right away.

the guys who battle with a trainer wont get a 4. ever.

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