Rick Walker Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 I think this is the best we can do and have to trust people will follow the rules. Besides, I know my grippers don't get continuously weaker and weaker otherwise I'd be closing my #4's by now. ← Certainly they dont get easier and easier-but some do indeed get easier to a point. I cant explain it, but I know what I know, and I know this gripper is not close to the one I closed. Rick Walker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Piche Posted October 13, 2004 Author Share Posted October 13, 2004 hey bill....what if jedd or heath barely close this gripper? what if it is just as hard or harder than the mm2....will steve get credit for it? ← No. Come on guys, let's not go crazy on this whole thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Piche Posted October 13, 2004 Author Share Posted October 13, 2004 I think this is the best we can do and have to trust people will follow the rules. Besides, I know my grippers don't get continuously weaker and weaker otherwise I'd be closing my #4's by now. ← Certainly they dont get easier and easier-but some do indeed get easier to a point. I cant explain it, but I know what I know, and I know this gripper is not close to the one I closed. Rick Walker ← I agree some get easier to a point. 100% agree. But, what happens if Heath and Jedd come back and say there isn't a significant difference? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Walker Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 I guess another option for Steve is to immediately sign up for the MM2-then he can compare how each one felt. I am just glad he closed it! Funny how he is a credit card (or less) from the MM1 DUD-maybe he can even close it fresh-yet he found the MM1 to be VERY close to the DUD. A little easier-but not much. You know how hard the MM DUD is Bill. There is a reason you made them DUDs. As a matter of fact, I think you once told me you saw the DUDs as easy #4 level...if there is such a thing. Rick Walker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Piche Posted October 13, 2004 Author Share Posted October 13, 2004 I guess another option for Steve is to immediately sign up for the MM2-then he can compare how each one felt. I am just glad he closed it! Funny how he is a credit card (or less) from the MM1 DUD-maybe he can even close it fresh-yet he found the MM1 to be VERY close to the DUD. A little easier-but not much. You know how hard the MM DUD is Bill. There is a reason you made them DUDs. As a matter of fact, I think you once told me you saw the DUDs as easy #4 level...if there is such a thing. Rick Walker ← Yup, which prompted the increase in distance from the bottom of the spring to the top of the handles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Walker Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 But, what happens if Heath and Jedd come back and say there isn't a significant difference? Then I will admit that I lost a ton off my crush in less then a months time, while I was training my crush. However, if this gripper stays untouched from now until it sees the first calibrator, there will be a difference. If you are certain Bill that these grippers are the same, then why bother to send them out to Heath or Jedd? You seem pretty confident that they are all the same. Rick Walker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
austinslater Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 I wondered about the seasoning issue from the start. The sweep gets easier as it seasons up. No doubt about it. If one gripper has been used for the majority of the time and another one has hardly been used then there is going to be a difference. Might not be a bad idea to have John at pda season them to make sure they are all at the same level. Austin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Piche Posted October 13, 2004 Author Share Posted October 13, 2004 All will be cleaned and oiled before the comparison. When I first got them, I could not tell the difference. I believe you Rick. Something is up. I think it's the seasoning/rust and maybe some binding going on. I've seen it happen with my friends grippers (and mine too). In fact, he said today...feel this freaking #1 how hard it is now as compared to before. We also noticed it with his #3 and #4. Both have gotten progressively harder the last 6 months as they just sit in his bag and get chalk/dust and yes rust. So, to get to the bottom of things we do need to figure out what's going on. I still believe it's a combo of seasoning and the other factors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Piche Posted October 13, 2004 Author Share Posted October 13, 2004 I wondered about the seasoning issue from the start. The sweep gets easier as it seasons up. No doubt about it. If one gripper has been used for the majority of the time and another one has hardly been used then there is going to be a difference. Might not be a bad idea to have John at pda season them to make sure they are all at the same level. Austin ← I agree. See my other post. When Rick said something is up, I believe him. My theory may be off and it may be entirely a seasoning thing and not a combo. They were made back to back very carefully and from the same point in the spring wire. We found that was an issue in itself. You cannot create one gripper and then come back later and expect to create another the same. They must be made right next to each other from the spool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan McMillan Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 Thanks for posting the post-cert insanity Rick! Steve you are a monster Jon@han Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Steve Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 Sorry guys, must have still been tired from closing my #3 for the kids at work for about 30 reps. Good gripper Bill thanks. Will rest longer for mm2 thats for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clay Edgin Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 On the subject of rust/dirt toughening up grippers... When I let my dad borrow my easy #3 for a while, he took it with him everywhere and it got rusty and dirty. When I tried it again I barely got it cold and was surprised. Now that it has had some more squeezes on it on a regular basis and been cleaned, it is easier again. But for a while there it was significantly tougher. If it matters, I think that using several grippers is fine as long as they're all seasoned, oiled, and kept in a dry place. Having someone like Jedder or Heather (like the play on words there?) test them would be cool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Piche Posted October 13, 2004 Author Share Posted October 13, 2004 On the subject of rust/dirt toughening up grippers...When I let my dad borrow my easy #3 for a while, he took it with him everywhere and it got rusty and dirty. When I tried it again I barely got it cold and was surprised. Now that it has had some more squeezes on it on a regular basis and been cleaned, it is easier again. But for a while there it was significantly tougher. If it matters, I think that using several grippers is fine as long as they're all seasoned, oiled, and kept in a dry place. Having someone like Jedder or Heather (like the play on words there?) test them would be cool. ← As I mentioned above, I have definitely seen the same thing. My friend's #4 for example became a beast over time. I guess if you want to toughen up a gripper, this is a way. Once I get the the one MMG1 back, they will be cleaned, oiled, etc. and after testing this will get done every time on all the grippers (MMG2 and 3's as well) one gets sent out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrPepper Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 Once I get the the one MMG1 back, they will be cleaned, oiled, etc. and after testing this will get done every time on all the grippers (MMG2 and 3's as well) one gets sent out. ← Out of curiousity why are you going to clean the one before it's sent out? I thought the purpose of getting them calibrated was to see if there was a difference in the strength necessary to close. If the difference was indeed caused by rust and what have you, then cleaning it BEFORE it gets tested might not show the discrepancy between the 3 MMG1's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Walker Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 Agreed. They should remain untouched until they go to the tester. Cleaning and oiling them may make them easier-and thus make it look like we are lying about the whole situation. Rick Walker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Piche Posted October 13, 2004 Author Share Posted October 13, 2004 Agreed.They should remain untouched until they go to the tester. Cleaning and oiling them may make them easier-and thus make it look like we are lying about the whole situation. Rick Walker ← That's fine by me. I said I believe you Rick and I think I know why there is the noted discrepancy. No one said anyone was lying. In fact, I thought I had royally screwed up at the beginning of this. Then Heath or Jedd is going to have to oil and clean them all and then re-test afterwards to make sure they are all the same. See what I mean? Otherwise, what's the point for the long run solution if they just send them back as is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Piche Posted October 13, 2004 Author Share Posted October 13, 2004 Heck, what we can do is send the un-touched grippers to both guys. Then, the last guy can oil and clean them and ship them back to the first guy for re-test. I am open to other ideas? I want everyone to agree on what the process should be and then we all accept the findings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mac Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 The last suggestion sounds good to me. Then the situation can be evaluated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tspinillo Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 Excellent idea. T! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrankyBoy Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 (edited) That makes even more sense for me. So we have the opinion of both experts on the original and the cleaned/oiled grippers. Bill, what do you think of doing the same tests for the other MM tripels (2 and 3)? So we may avoid a similar problem in the future for the other levels too. Even if for MM2 and MM3 always the same gripper was used there already may be variances to the 2 backup grippers. Edited October 13, 2004 by FrankyBoy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Walker Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 Bill, Gripper, video, and form went out this morning via express mail. If possible, please send the video back to me. I will send you a check. Thanks- Rick Walker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Vigeant Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 I have the twin to mm1 except its DEFFINITELY a little harder if you want me to send it to somebody. So, to get to the bottom of things we do need to figure out what's going on. I still believe it's a combo of seasoning and the other factors. ← Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrPepper Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 I have the twin to mm1 except its DEFFINITELY a little harder if you want me to send it to somebody.So, to get to the bottom of things we do need to figure out what's going on. I still believe it's a combo of seasoning and the other factors. ← ← I would think it's more the rust and cleaning necessity than anything. I say this simply because a non seasoned MM1 shouldn't be close to an MM2, yes no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Piche Posted October 13, 2004 Author Share Posted October 13, 2004 Bill,Gripper, video, and form went out this morning via express mail. If possible, please send the video back to me. I will send you a check. Thanks- Rick Walker ← Thanks Rick. There was someone who was asking about the measurements from spring to handle. We spec'd this to Warren as 1/4". I checked all of them and I imagine Jeff and Warren did as well. I will shoot a video showing the measurements of all three before we send them out to be tested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Walker Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 I went from the bottom of the spring to the very top of the handle with a steel ruler. It was under 1/4", and just around 1/8". Of course, my ruler could be off as well. I do smack people with it from time to time. Rick Walker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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