Mikael Siversson Posted October 12, 2004 Share Posted October 12, 2004 The MM1 Florian closed was nearly exact of the strength he has expected.(Between the 3.22 and the 3.38 Elites of the Europeans). ← I doubt Florian could determine that without testing the three back to back, which he did not. The average difference in closing difficulty between the 3.22 and 3.38 is 2.5mm (i.e., if you can just close the 3.22 with a parallell set, you would have 2.5mm left on the 3.38). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrankyBoy Posted October 12, 2004 Share Posted October 12, 2004 Mikael, Florian tested the original MM1 versus my MM1 replica (which has a different stamping just FYI). They were almost identical. It was me who tested the 3.0, the 3.22, the 3.38 and my MM1 replica in Loeddekoeppinge at the europeans. Hope that clears it up. The MM1 Florian closed was nearly exact of the strength he has expected. (Between the 3.22 and the 3.38 Elites of the Europeans). ← I doubt Florian could determine that without testing the three back to back, which he did not. The average difference in closing difficulty between the 3.22 and 3.38 is 2.5mm (i.e., if you can just close the 3.22 with a parallell set, you would have 2.5mm left on the 3.38). ← Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikael Siversson Posted October 12, 2004 Share Posted October 12, 2004 A bit of elaborate extrapolation going on here. :stuart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
showlarson Posted October 12, 2004 Share Posted October 12, 2004 Despite all of the drama, are the other MM1 certs still on schedule? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Piche Posted October 12, 2004 Author Share Posted October 12, 2004 These grippers were tested by multiple people. Myself, Jeff Peterson I think did, Heath did the initial base testing as well. They were made back to back carefully by Warren. The measurements are exact between them (they are not different). I can show this if you want on video? Rick, the difference may even be lubrication and binding. Steve may have gotten one of the "backup grippers" as I just pulled from the rack. It's also not my certification. It's the Gripboards. All the rules, etc. and ideas (like terminator's for making travel grippers) were generated by the GripBoard members and agreed upon by members. So, here's what I will do. I'll send all three to "the calibrator" Heath Sexton and one other person like say Jedd for testing. Maybe the other two grippers were not seasoned enough? It could have been "rust" even making it bind more. As we all know, that can be huge. Everyone on board with this idea? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Piche Posted October 12, 2004 Author Share Posted October 12, 2004 Jedd, you must think all three's are easy. Up to this point when I got in a hurry, it's been the same gripper because I would take it from one box and put it in a new one to send out immediately. I think that's what happened. Steve got a backup that's sat for months collecting dust and rust. Are you up for testing the 3 MMG1's? The MM1 that I got was a joke compared to my easiest of threes.The MM Dud that Rick let me borrow was close in strength to an MM3 Replica that Gamidon let me borrow. There's some major variance there. I am sorry, but I think that is a problem. I am willing to help out anyway I can in re-calibrating grippers if need be. -Jedd- ← Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sigmfsk Posted October 12, 2004 Share Posted October 12, 2004 Everyone on board with this idea? ← I like the idea. A gripper was surprisingly hard to close, which may turn out to show that the three duplicate grippers are no longer duplicates. Or maybe they're fine. No sense everyone going nutty until we see what's going on. Do a recalibration and see what it tells us, and what we can learn from it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrankyBoy Posted October 12, 2004 Share Posted October 12, 2004 Makes sense Bill. Ensure that the springs are cleaned thouroughly first before Heath is getting into action. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGuy Posted October 12, 2004 Share Posted October 12, 2004 I had missed Bill's post confirming he had not made a mistake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smitty Posted October 12, 2004 Share Posted October 12, 2004 Bill, I think what Jedd was saying was that the #3's we have are all pretty hard - so when he got the MM1 is felt a little easier than the one's he was training on.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricMilfeld Posted October 12, 2004 Share Posted October 12, 2004 How about cleaning both the springs and knurling, in addition to oiling, all of the grippers as part of a regular maintenance program? It'll add life to the grippers and help to provide a level playting field for all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Piche Posted October 12, 2004 Author Share Posted October 12, 2004 Rick, Are you sending the gripper back with the tape and form? I will clean all and oil prior to every attempt in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyle Posted October 12, 2004 Share Posted October 12, 2004 that's funny, accidently sent a harder gripper and he closed it anyway. AWSOME! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedd Johnson Posted October 12, 2004 Share Posted October 12, 2004 Jedd, you must think all three's are easy. No, no, bro. What I said was that the MM1 was a joke compared to my easiest of threes. I meant that my easiest three was way tougher than the MM1. I have squeezed threes that I have been unable to close.Are you up for testing the 3 MMG1's? Sure thing. Send them my way. You still have my address? Up to this point when I got in a hurry, it's been the same gripper because I would take it from one box and put it in a new one to send out immediately. I think that's what happened. Steve got a backup that's sat for months collecting dust and rust. Once the grippers are re-calibrated, I move that we always use the same gripper for certs until it gets lost. That was my understanding of how it was gonna go anyway. Just a suggestion - what's everyone think? -Jedd- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Piche Posted October 12, 2004 Author Share Posted October 12, 2004 that's funny, accidently sent a harder gripper and he closed it anyway.AWSOME! ← Wrong. Read the whole thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Piche Posted October 12, 2004 Author Share Posted October 12, 2004 Jedd, I was going this route. Until I got in a hurry. I think that caused the problem. Grippers sitting and clogging up for months on a rack. So, I agree fully on using one period. I was doing that and have done it on all the MMG2 and MMG3 attempts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedd Johnson Posted October 12, 2004 Share Posted October 12, 2004 I like the idea. A gripper was surprisingly hard to close, which may turn out to show that the three duplicate grippers are no longer duplicates. Or maybe they're fine. No sense everyone going nutty until we see what's going on. Do a recalibration and see what it tells us, and what we can learn from it. Great post. No sense in things getting crazy until a re-calibration is done. Is anyone keeping documented records of all this stuff for posterity and history's sake? -Jedd- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyle Posted October 12, 2004 Share Posted October 12, 2004 Ooopps! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Piche Posted October 12, 2004 Author Share Posted October 12, 2004 I like the idea. A gripper was surprisingly hard to close, which may turn out to show that the three duplicate grippers are no longer duplicates. Or maybe they're fine. No sense everyone going nutty until we see what's going on. Do a recalibration and see what it tells us, and what we can learn from it. Great post. No sense in things getting crazy until a re-calibration is done. Is anyone keeping documented records of all this stuff for posterity and history's sake? -Jedd- ← I do have an Excel Spreadsheet for each level. Dates. Witness. Failures. Successes. Etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Piche Posted October 12, 2004 Author Share Posted October 12, 2004 Plus, it's all documented in the MM forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Walker Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 Rick,Are you sending the gripper back with the tape and form? I will clean all and oil prior to every attempt in the future. ← Yes. All of the stuff will go out tomorrow. I am not sure what all the tape has on it, so please send it back to me if you can. I am having a hard time grasping that dust from the gripper sitting would make it that much harder. The difference between this gripper, and the one I closed, are night and day. Maybe it is the seasoning effect? My son's 2003 #3 was the hardest one I ever touched for about a month. After a number of forced closes, it suddenly got easier. It is now easier-not too easy, but easier then what it was out of the box. It went form the toughest #3 I have squeezed, to a medium tough #3. This phenomenon of seasoning is a potential problem Bill. I know I would not have been certified had I got this gripper instead of the one I did. I am sure it is the same for others. We certainly need to make sure that the same gripper goes out. Either that-or-each time a cert gripper is mailed out, close the other backups 3 times. If that means a leg crush-then so be it. Or, maybe just season all of them before you send them out? Maybe put 100+ crushes on them all? Do this, and keep them oiled and cleaned. I dont know what the solution is, but something has to be done. To those of you in line for the MM1-I hope you are closing Elites-cause if you arent, and you get this gripper, you aint gonna close it! Rick Walker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Piche Posted October 13, 2004 Author Share Posted October 13, 2004 As Jedd pointed out, the same gripper will get sent out as it has been until this point. I tested all of them when they were first made and I can tell you with 100% certainty there was not a difference I could tell. Maybe there was a seasoning effect by the time you got it? We'll see here soon when Heath and Jedd take the litmus comparision. If so, the answer is simple. We season the others to match and then make sure all 3 have equal closes on them going forward. The MMG1 that has been used probably only has 40-50 close attempts on it. That will be easy to match the other two should it be necessary. I then perform maintenance on all the grippers when there is a new cert attempt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Walker Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 As Jedd pointed out, the same gripper will get sent out as it has been until this point. I tested all of them when they were first made and I can tell you with 100% certainty there was not a difference I could tell.Maybe there was a seasoning effect by the time you got it? We'll see here soon when Heath and Jedd take the litmus comparision. If so, the answer is simple. We season the others to match and then make sure all 3 have equal closes on them going forward. The MMG1 that has been used probably only has 40-50 close attempts on it. That will be easy to match the other two should it be necessary. I then perform maintenance on all the grippers when there is a new cert attempt. ← The one I got was spongy on the sweep and stout at the close. This one was stout from start to finish. It has been my experience that a seasoned gripper gets easier in the sweep. We all know that if the sweep of a gripper is hard-it is harder to close, regardless of the close strength. I hate to point this out, but in theory the gripper only has 40-50 attempts on it. In theory. In reality, it may have close to 100. Judges attempting it, others attempting it, etc. Not legal-but it may be happening. There is no way to control this. We really dont know, and there is no way to tell. Rick Walker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ishred Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 hey bill....what if jedd or heath barely close this gripper? what if it is just as hard or harder than the mm2....will steve get credit for it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Piche Posted October 13, 2004 Author Share Posted October 13, 2004 I think this is the best we can do and have to trust people will follow the rules. Besides, I know my grippers don't get continuously weaker and weaker otherwise I'd be closing my #4's by now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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