Calibrated Fat Bastard Stocks

[foxyj75]

First question, what is Steel Works? I Googled it and didn't come up with anything definite or helpful. I'm curious because I have some 5/16" HRS that must be much harder than the stuff listed with the 380 poundage rating. I just put down a 5.5"x1/4" G5 with ease and also put a 5"x1/4" Black JH G5 down to roughly 105deg, but the the 5/16" HRS stock I have I can't even wobble!

SteelWorks is the brand name of steel stock that Lowes and some "Do It" hardware stores carry. Their HRS is notorious for being almost just as hard as the CRS.

[easyWeight]

First question, what is Steel Works? I Googled it and didn't come up with anything definite or helpful. I'm curious because I have some 5/16" HRS that must be much harder than the stuff listed with the 380 poundage rating. I just put down a 5.5"x1/4" G5 with ease and also put a 5"x1/4" Black JH G5 down to roughly 105deg, but the the 5/16" HRS stock I have I can't even wobble!

SteelWorks is the brand name of steel stock that Lowes and some "Do It" hardware stores carry. Their HRS is notorious for being almost just as hard as the CRS.

Ah OK. I just read the sticker on what I have and it's National brand. I'm wondering if the length may have something to do with it, because it shouldn't be harder than that Black G5 should it? I mean the CRS 5/16" Round (I'm assuming is CRS) on the list even has a poundage less than a 5.5" Black G5. Well, I'm going to cheat kink some of this stuff and see what I can do with it. Heh, I may just be expecting too much too soon too. Thanks for the response Foxman!

[ewokhugo]

i 'd like to know how do u rate the IM red nail and 1/4x6 g8 bolt(LE in the head)..both feel very close.

any idea??

thanks

Edited January 15, 2009 by ewokhugo

[matthcarl]

Ah OK. I just read the sticker on what I have and it's National brand. I'm wondering if the length may have something to do with it, because it shouldn't be harder than that Black G5 should it? I mean the CRS 5/16" Round (I'm assuming is CRS) on the list even has a poundage less than a 5.5" Black G5. Well, I'm going to cheat kink some of this stuff and see what I can do with it. Heh, I may just be expecting too much too soon too. Thanks for the response Foxman!

Hey, I bend a lot of National brand steel since I get it at tractor supply...I would think you should be able to kink the HRS without too much trouble...are you sure you didn't get 3/8"?

Seriously, unless you have some freak steel, I think the stuff is pretty easy on the kink. Have you bent much 7" stock? If you're not used to it, I guess it might give you trouble. poundage ratings aside, I think the HRS at 6" is no harder than a 6" G8, and definitely easier than those JH black bolts.

[easyWeight]

Ah OK. I just read the sticker on what I have and it's National brand. I'm wondering if the length may have something to do with it, because it shouldn't be harder than that Black G5 should it? I mean the CRS 5/16" Round (I'm assuming is CRS) on the list even has a poundage less than a 5.5" Black G5. Well, I'm going to cheat kink some of this stuff and see what I can do with it. Heh, I may just be expecting too much too soon too. Thanks for the response Foxman!

Hey, I bend a lot of National brand steel since I get it at tractor supply...I would think you should be able to kink the HRS without too much trouble...are you sure you didn't get 3/8"?

Seriously, unless you have some freak steel, I think the stuff is pretty easy on the kink. Have you bent much 7" stock? If you're not used to it, I guess it might give you trouble. poundage ratings aside, I think the HRS at 6" is no harder than a 6" G8, and definitely easier than those JH black bolts.

Hehe, no it's 5/16" and I double checked in metric it's 8mm there too. I also think I should be able to kink it, but seriously I about faint I'm putting out so hard on it! I don't know what the deal is. I have some CRS 5/16" too, I'll have to chop a piece off and see what happens.

As for 7", the only stuff I have done were a few 1/4" round HRS and it was so easy I'll probably never bother cutting more, but maybe I should get some of equivalent dimensions cut out of CRS to practice with.

I was going to cheat kink my HRS stuff at the gym today with a couple 1" pieces of tubing we have there, but my buddy said he took them home the other day. So I'm out of luck until I can find another way or get more cheater bars!

[easyWeight]

First question, what is Steel Works? I Googled it and didn't come up with anything definite or helpful. I'm curious because I have some 5/16" HRS that must be much harder than the stuff listed with the 380 poundage rating. I just put down a 5.5"x1/4" G5 with ease and also put a 5"x1/4" Black JH G5 down to roughly 105deg, but the the 5/16" HRS stock I have I can't even wobble!

You cant compare stock of different lengths. If bar A is 7" long and takes 100 lbs to bend, and bar B is 6" long and takes 100 lbs to bend, bar A is the tougher bend of the two

Hello, sineparixmace, I appreciate your comment. However, I hate to disagree since I'm not very experienced, but this statement doesn't make sense. While I understand that the 7" stock would have a higher tensile strength due to the extra leverage needed to bend it at 100 pounds (6" of the same stock would take more than the comparable 6" stock), it still takes 100 pounds of force to bend. 100 pounds = 100 pounds. You can't say that a small boulder weighing 300 pounds is heavier than a large man of equivalent weight, for example. The rock is more dense, but it still weights 300 pounds and would take the same force to lift as the man.

[gazza]

Most people that start bending usually have more problems with the 7inch length of stock than the 6inch length especially if useing the DO [double overhand] style due to inflexibility in the shoulders and chest especially if your a big guy and have done lots on benching.

If you have this problem then the 7inch length IE:- a Bastard or RED will give you a problem on the kink due to you not being able to apply your leverage/strength as affectively as on a shorter bar.

[ewokhugo]

i think i made the post at the wrong place ..red nail and g8 "le" are not from FBCC ...

[easyWeight]

Most people that start bending usually have more problems with the 7inch length of stock than the 6inch length especially if useing the DO [double overhand] style due to inflexibility in the shoulders and chest especially if your a big guy and have done lots on benching.

If you have this problem then the 7inch length IE:- a Bastard or RED will give you a problem on the kink due to you not being able to apply your leverage/strength as affectively as on a shorter bar.

Yes, I think this may have something to do with it. I really have a difficult time getting that 7"x5/16" stuff up high, if at all. Maybe I should just chop it down to 6" hehe. Do you have any suggestions for increasing shoulder mobility?

[gazza]

Most people that start bending usually have more problems with the 7inch length of stock than the 6inch length especially if useing the DO [double overhand] style due to inflexibility in the shoulders and chest especially if your a big guy and have done lots on benching.

If you have this problem then the 7inch length IE:- a Bastard or RED will give you a problem on the kink due to you not being able to apply your leverage/strength as affectively as on a shorter bar.

Yes, I think this may have something to do with it. I really have a difficult time getting that 7"x5/16" stuff up high, if at all. Maybe I should just chop it down to 6" hehe. Do you have any suggestions for increasing shoulder mobility?

Do Dips and Reverse Dips off a bench or chairs and work with 7.5inch stock.

[timiacobucci]

Hello, sineparixmace, I appreciate your comment. However, I hate to disagree since I'm not very experienced, but this statement doesn't make sense. While I understand that the 7" stock would have a higher tensile strength due to the extra leverage needed to bend it at 100 pounds (6" of the same stock would take more than the comparable 6" stock), it still takes 100 pounds of force to bend. 100 pounds = 100 pounds. You can't say that a small boulder weighing 300 pounds is heavier than a large man of equivalent weight, for example. The rock is more dense, but it still weights 300 pounds and would take the same force to lift as the man.

You are not actually disagreeing at all. What you say is true, in that mechanically yes the ratings are the same and the forces are equal. But because of leverage and anatomical reasons or whatever else, a longer bar with equal rating is always harder in real world bending. So in this sense, for practical progression reasons in selecting a harder stock it is misleading to go strictly by calibration numbers without taking length into account. The calibration #s for equal length bars is spot on but a bar 1" longer with an equal rating might be roughly 10-20 percent harder on average.

This is very rough and people's body types and levers and relative strengths differ greatly making some people better or worse in certain ranges. Most of the initial difficulty on 7" is flexibility though as Gazza has already said.

[easyWeight]

Hello, sineparixmace, I appreciate your comment. However, I hate to disagree since I'm not very experienced, but this statement doesn't make sense. While I understand that the 7" stock would have a higher tensile strength due to the extra leverage needed to bend it at 100 pounds (6" of the same stock would take more than the comparable 6" stock), it still takes 100 pounds of force to bend. 100 pounds = 100 pounds. You can't say that a small boulder weighing 300 pounds is heavier than a large man of equivalent weight, for example. The rock is more dense, but it still weights 300 pounds and would take the same force to lift as the man.

You are not actually disagreeing at all. What you say is true, in that mechanically yes the ratings are the same and the forces are equal. But because of leverage and anatomical reasons or whatever else, a longer bar with equal rating is always harder in real world bending. So in this sense, for practical progression reasons in selecting a harder stock it is misleading to go strictly by calibration numbers without taking length into account. The calibration #s for equal length bars is spot on but a bar 1" longer with an equal rating might be roughly 10-20 percent harder on average.

This is very rough and people's body types and levers and relative strengths differ greatly making some people better or worse in certain ranges. Most of the initial difficulty on 7" is flexibility though as Gazza has already said.

That's interesting to know. I would have assumed that shorter bars would be the harder because of less leverage - you can only get so short until there is nothing left to hold onto. But, I can definitely see where anatomical factors come into play. That would be a variable factor that would be very difficult to discern from person to person.

I'll take your guys' word for it though, because I seem to have no problem with short stuff, but that 7" crap I can't get up nearly as high. I think some of it is that my traps are getting in the way, so I may never be a good DO bender on the longer stuff. I should probably focus a little more on DU.

Thanks for explanation!

[ewokhugo]

good idea Darin! give DU a try. u will obvious become good at DO if u put your heart into it.

your technique its probably growing, u will reach your peak soon, be ready to kill big steel:-)

[Tim71]

i 'd like to know how do u rate the IM red nail and 1/4x6 g8 bolt(LE in the head)..both feel very close.

any idea??

thanks

LE is lake erie and is a tougher than average G8 bolt. Reds have varied so much that it's tough to say but the tougher reds will be much tougher than the G8 bolt. If you had an easy red then I could see how some would feel them to be similiar.

Tim

[ewokhugo]

thanks Tim ; probably an easy/average red.

i have one bastard from the march(2008) batch ... how hard is it?? thanks in advcance.

[cpchild]

I'm not sure if someone has already gone over this in the thread or not.

I work as an engineer and this calculation is pretty useful for bending.

Its called the 2nd moment of inertia. It can be used to calculate a sections resistance to bending.

As long as the piece of metal your comparing are of the same length and material the 2nd moment of area will tell you how much harder it will be to bend that piece of metal.

Some examples are (I is the second moment of inertia for that section of metal, if you calculate them as a % to each other you can see the increase in effort required):

Diameter I

Round 3/16" 25.26

Round 1/4" 79.82

Round 5/16" 194.88

Round 3/8" 404.10

Square 3/16" 42.70

Square 1/4" 134.95

Square 5/16" 329.47

Square 3/8" 683.18

Edited February 13, 2009 by cpchild

[matthcarl]

In case I missed it somewhere, has National 3/8" CRS been calibrated? I couldn't move it at 7" So I'm guessing well over 500 lbs. I thought their 5/16" CRS was very easy, so I was curious.

[Tim71]

I don't remember getting 3/8 calibrated but the 5/16 CRS only hit 330 lbs which is the easiest CRS I've ever tried. Noticably easier than the steelworks at 380 lbs.

Tim

[matthcarl]

That sounds right on the 5/16". I am pretty sure 3/8" National HRS hit 490-495, and I can at least kink that pretty easily. I even put a minikink in the 5/16" FBBC square, and didn't move this the National 3/8" CRS at all...so maybe even over 600 lbs.

Edit - if anyone who can't get it locally wants a free sample, send me a PM

Edited February 21, 2009 by The Writer

[MalachiMcMullen]

Matt, I have bent some of that 3/8 National CRS at 8" and it's beastly. I would say it's probably 590-650. The kink was very tough.

[David_wigren]

When was the last time the shiny was calibrated? I'm pretty sure that the 545 result was at least from 1.5 years ago. Has it been calibrated again after that?

After finding a pile that was from a year ago. I do have to say that I suspect that the new ones are easier

[Johnsson]

Is 1/4" x 6,5" Grade8 easyer than 1/4" x 7" FBBC Square? Where 5/16" x 6" Grade2 goes?

[yodajaeger]

Is 1/4" x 6,5" Grade8 easyer than 1/4" x 7" FBBC Square? Where 5/16" x 6" Grade2 goes?

Difficult to say actually, grade 8 is quite difficult to compare with square. Grade 8s flex and bounce, in the kink as well as in the crush. The square is much stiffer, and if you get it to move, it will not bounce back at all. Personally I think grade 8's are really, really great to train with, due to their their springiness since they force you to hold your hits "longer". Generally I would say that 7"x1/4 square and 6,5" grade 8 are quite similar, at least calibration-wise. If you're having problems with springy stuff, grade 8s probably will feel harder. Conversely, if your having problem with the kink (especially on stiff bars), the square probably will feel harder.

5/16" grade 2 bolts vary a lot, some of them are a bit easier than a grade 8, while some are harder than a red. Generally they are tough to kink (at least around a grade 8) but relatively easy to sweep and crush down.

[Johnsson]

Is 1/4" x 6,5" Grade8 easyer than 1/4" x 7" FBBC Square? Where 5/16" x 6" Grade2 goes?

Difficult to say actually, grade 8 is quite difficult to compare with square. Grade 8s flex and bounce, in the kink as well as in the crush. The square is much stiffer, and if you get it to move, it will not bounce back at all. Personally I think grade 8's are really, really great to train with, due to their their springiness since they force you to hold your hits "longer". Generally I would say that 7"x1/4 square and 6,5" grade 8 are quite similar, at least calibration-wise. If you're having problems with springy stuff, grade 8s probably will feel harder. Conversely, if your having problem with the kink (especially on stiff bars), the square probably will feel harder.

5/16" grade 2 bolts vary a lot, some of them are a bit easier than a grade 8, while some are harder than a red. Generally they are tough to kink (at least around a grade 8) but relatively easy to sweep and crush down.

Thanks! Nice to know, because I order those 2 weeks ago (and other bars too ofcourse). I will test atleast g2's then when I get my order.

[yodajaeger]

Grade 2 (5/16") are fun since they help you break the barrier of 5/16" steel. Together with 1/4" grade 8's and square they are the perfect stuff to unlock reds and bastards.