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#1 OFFLINE   wulfgeat

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Posted 24 March 2014 - 05:48 PM

Hello all, my name is Carter. I have been experimenting with dumbbells in order to work my wrist extensors. My current hold weight is 75 lbs either hand and I am training to reach a hold with 100lbs. Also, I have started some other variations I that are designed to target specific wrist extensors (with lower weight of course).

 

I am curious as to what more accomplished grip athletes have to say about this style of training. Because I have no reference point with which to compare this to, any feedback would be much appreciated.

 

 

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#2 OFFLINE   climber511

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Posted 24 March 2014 - 06:08 PM

I've never seen anything like that before so I can't say anything about it.  It looked like a bit of a joint lock as much as a targeted "movement" for the actual extensors muscles????



#3 OFFLINE   wulfgeat

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Posted 24 March 2014 - 06:22 PM

I lock the elbow for two reasons: it makes it easier to lever the arm into position for the hold, and I feel a greater amount of pressure on the origin of the carpi extensor ulnaris. But your right, it does look like a straight arm bar. Also, putting the arm out to the side makes it easier to internally rotate the humerus which for whatever reason ensures that this does not hurt my wrist on the ulnar side. I am working on a variation with the wrist parallel to the floor though. Should I show some of the other variations that I am working on? 



#4 OFFLINE   wulfgeat

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 06:08 PM

Considering that Chris Rice has never seen anything like this before (and no one else has responded), I will assume I have invented it and will use this as a log of my progress. The short answer of why I am doing this is two fold: I love support lifts, and I feel that my main weakness with feats of strength is a severe imbalance between my wrist flexors and extensors (similar to what arm-wrestlers who specialize in the hook technique experience). That is why I am giving the wrist extensors direct attention.

 

Will post again.



#5 OFFLINE   climber511

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 07:11 PM

Considering that Chris Rice has never seen anything like this before (and no one else has responded), I will assume I have invented it and will use this as a log of my progress. The short answer of why I am doing this is two fold: I love support lifts, and I feel that my main weakness with feats of strength is a severe imbalance between my wrist flexors and extensors (similar to what arm-wrestlers who specialize in the hook technique experience). That is why I am giving the wrist extensors direct attention.

 

Will post again.

Some guy no one ever heard of named Franco Columbo :) said "if it works it works, I don't care what anyone says" - and I'll agree with that statment.  A question if I may - with the thumb down (or pinkie up) position you use - it appears to work extensors more towards the pinkie side of the forearm??? True?  If so the imbalance in extensors is not in all extensors groups but localized to that area?  Have you tried this static hold with a level hand so to speak?  If so what do you notice with it that way?  It would seem to hit the extensors group more evenly that way? 



#6 OFFLINE   33wes

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 07:47 PM

 

Considering that Chris Rice has never seen anything like this before (and no one else has responded), I will assume I have invented it and will use this as a log of my progress. The short answer of why I am doing this is two fold: I love support lifts, and I feel that my main weakness with feats of strength is a severe imbalance between my wrist flexors and extensors (similar to what arm-wrestlers who specialize in the hook technique experience). That is why I am giving the wrist extensors direct attention.

 

Will post again.

Some guy no one ever heard of named Franco Columbo :) said "if it works it works, I don't care what anyone says" - and I'll agree with that statment.  A question if I may - with the thumb down (or pinkie up) position you use - it appears to work extensors more towards the pinkie side of the forearm??? True?  If so the imbalance in extensors is not in all extensors groups but localized to that area?  Have you tried this static hold with a level hand so to speak?  If so what do you notice with it that way?  It would seem to hit the extensors group more evenly that way? 

 

Columbo was the guy who said that extremely light alternating dumbbell curls with a twist were a good warm up before straight bar curls to prevent arthritis.

 

Carter: Have you tried that with a lever bar (Heavy Hammer, etc.) ?  Maybe a combination of timed hold with your exercise and a timed lever hold would be effective?



#7 OFFLINE   wulfgeat

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 09:05 PM

 

Considering that Chris Rice has never seen anything like this before (and no one else has responded), I will assume I have invented it and will use this as a log of my progress. The short answer of why I am doing this is two fold: I love support lifts, and I feel that my main weakness with feats of strength is a severe imbalance between my wrist flexors and extensors (similar to what arm-wrestlers who specialize in the hook technique experience). That is why I am giving the wrist extensors direct attention.

 

Will post again.

Some guy no one ever heard of named Franco Columbo :) said "if it works it works, I don't care what anyone says" - and I'll agree with that statment.  A question if I may - with the thumb down (or pinkie up) position you use - it appears to work extensors more towards the pinkie side of the forearm??? True?  If so the imbalance in extensors is not in all extensors groups but localized to that area?  Have you tried this static hold with a level hand so to speak?  If so what do you notice with it that way?  It would seem to hit the extensors group more evenly that way? 

 

Haha! That's an obscure reference ;) and I would love to tell you anything you want to know about this lift. Yes my carpi extensor ulnaris is the one that I have the most problems with, and I think that is mainly because anatomically, it is the smallest. This lift is incredibly nuanced; if you look back at the video, you will notice that my pinkie is flat against its side of the dumbbell. That is intentional. On a max effort version of this lift, the best way to keep that extensor from giving you crap is to preform it exactly as you see me do in the video. I think that is because that extensor is much better at ulnar deviating than it is extending, but I'm not sure. If you drop weight, and work with something that isn't your maximum, you will notice that where you position your hand along the dumbbell handle and how you position your wrist changes the direct line of pull--this lift is all about direct line of pull. Lets say that you grip the dumbbell in the dead center and hold the wrist parallel to the floor. Basically, think about lifting with your middle and ring knuckles (mostly middle). You will notice that the carpi extensor radialis brevis does the most work because it is in the direct line of pull. But you will also notice the carpi extensor digitorum, and depending on the angle, the carpi extensor ulnaris will strongly assist (especially on the side of the tendon closest to the ring finger). That being said, I can't do that until I master a weight in the position of the above video. So it is another level of progression for me if you will. You can also grab the dumbbell with the index flat against the head and get into the positon of the video and do a hold (think about lifting it with your pinkie knuckle). If I straigthen the arm, I feel that at the origin on the carpi extensor ulnaris. You can position your arm to parallel with you torso grab the weight like in the video, and bring the weight into complete radial deviation/extension (think about lifting with your index knuckle). When I do that, I feel it at the origin of the carpi exensor radialis longus. I just started experimenting with last two however, so those observations are from my first time with them on Monday.

 

I have some flexion holds which are fun too, but I'm not working on them right now. Important side note: this lift puts alot of shear stress on the bones, and getting good at it is partially determined by your ability to alow for and withstand that. I take my bone strength up with the flexion holds, that way I know the only limiting factor on the extension hold is wrist and tendon strength.

 

Carter: Have you tried that with a lever bar (Heavy Hammer, etc.)? Maybe a combination of timed hold with your exercise and a timed lever hold would be effective?

I have standard dumbbells which I offloaded like a really short sledge hammer. I got to 40 lbs for ten seconds for a lift simlar to slim's behind the back hammer lift from the floor. I put that down though, I didn't feel like it was helping because I started straining my carpi extensor ulnaris tendon at the insertion on the side closer to the ring finger as opposed to the outside where that lift pulls the hardest (on the right arm of mainly--that's the one that gives me the most problems). I have also done a strict vertical lever with a 12 lb sledge hammer--I really want to do a 16, but I have a long way to go.



#8 OFFLINE   33wes

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 10:28 PM

 

 

Considering that Chris Rice has never seen anything like this before (and no one else has responded), I will assume I have invented it and will use this as a log of my progress. The short answer of why I am doing this is two fold: I love support lifts, and I feel that my main weakness with feats of strength is a severe imbalance between my wrist flexors and extensors (similar to what arm-wrestlers who specialize in the hook technique experience). That is why I am giving the wrist extensors direct attention.

 

Will post again.

Some guy no one ever heard of named Franco Columbo :) said "if it works it works, I don't care what anyone says" - and I'll agree with that statment.  A question if I may - with the thumb down (or pinkie up) position you use - it appears to work extensors more towards the pinkie side of the forearm??? True?  If so the imbalance in extensors is not in all extensors groups but localized to that area?  Have you tried this static hold with a level hand so to speak?  If so what do you notice with it that way?  It would seem to hit the extensors group more evenly that way? 

 

Haha! That's an obscure reference ;) and I would love to tell you anything you want to know about this lift. Yes my carpi extensor ulnaris is the one that I have the most problems with, and I think that is mainly because anatomically, it is the smallest. This lift is incredibly nuanced; if you look back at the video, you will notice that my pinkie is flat against its side of the dumbbell. That is intentional. On a max effort version of this lift, the best way to keep that extensor from giving you crap is to preform it exactly as you see me do in the video. I think that is because that extensor is much better at ulnar deviating than it is extending, but I'm not sure. If you drop weight, and work with something that isn't your maximum, you will notice that where you position your hand along the dumbbell handle and how you position your wrist changes the direct line of pull--this lift is all about direct line of pull. Lets say that you grip the dumbbell in the dead center and hold the wrist parallel to the floor. Basically, think about lifting with your middle and ring knuckles (mostly middle). You will notice that the carpi extensor radialis brevis does the most work because it is in the direct line of pull. But you will also notice the carpi extensor digitorum, and depending on the angle, the carpi extensor ulnaris will strongly assist (especially on the side of the tendon closest to the ring finger). That being said, I can't do that until I master a weight in the position of the above video. So it is another level of progression for me if you will. You can also grab the dumbbell with the index flat against the head and get into the positon of the video and do a hold (think about lifting it with your pinkie knuckle). If I straigthen the arm, I feel that at the origin on the carpi extensor ulnaris. You can position your arm to parallel with you torso grab the weight like in the video, and bring the weight into complete radial deviation/extension (think about lifting with your index knuckle). When I do that, I feel it at the origin of the carpi exensor radialis longus. I just started experimenting with last two however, so those observations are from my first time with them on Monday.

 

I have some flexion holds which are fun too, but I'm not working on them right now. Important side note: this lift puts alot of shear stress on the bones, and getting good at it is partially determined by your ability to alow for and withstand that. I take my bone strength up with the flexion holds, that way I know the only limiting factor on the extension hold is wrist and tendon strength.

 

Carter: Have you tried that with a lever bar (Heavy Hammer, etc.)? Maybe a combination of timed hold with your exercise and a timed lever hold would be effective?

I have standard dumbbells which I offloaded like a really short sledge hammer. I got to 40 lbs for ten seconds for a lift simlar to slim's behind the back hammer lift from the floor. I put that down though, I didn't feel like it was helping because I started straining my carpi extensor ulnaris tendon at the insertion on the side closer to the ring finger as opposed to the outside where that lift pulls the hardest (on the right arm of mainly--that's the one that gives me the most problems). I have also done a strict vertical lever with a 12 lb sledge hammer--I really want to do a 16, but I have a long way to go.

 

Your lever work sounds solid. Maybe doing seated counterclockwise circles would help. Perhaps as an alternative you could do your static exercise with a band attached to a hook.



#9 OFFLINE   hellswindstaff

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Posted 26 March 2014 - 09:43 PM

I dont have anything to say other than support work rules.


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#10 OFFLINE   wulfgeat

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Posted 26 March 2014 - 09:46 PM

 

Your lever work sounds solid. Maybe doing seated counterclockwise circles would help. Perhaps as an alternative you could do your static exercise with a band attached to a hook.

I appreciate your suggestions. I don't however, know exactly what counterclockwise circles are, but that sounds like it is based around a movement principle. That being said, as a support lifter, I usually don't move very much, but when I do, it is to fill my muscles with blood so that are not stiff for several days. I use movement based things like bench, squat, feats of strength, and etc. like an Olympic lifter practices his lifts: to train the motor pattern, and test myself in order to gauge my progress. Also, because of how hard these holds are on my joints and connective tissues, any sort of resistance that increases exponentially (like say bands or chains) just sounds like a terrible idea. That's not to say that these are bad suggestions; they might be exactly the sort of thing I need to do; I just like power movements that utilize dead weight when it comes to training.

 

You will notice that that is exactly what I tried to accomplish with the design of my wrist extension exercise: develop a power based hold for the wrist extensors in which heavy weight can be utilized. I have tried moving the dumbbell around, and can lift the 75lb dumbbell like 15 times or so each wrist, but I don't like the way that feels nearly as much as adding five pounds and squeezing out over three seconds of isometric power in order to save myself from breaking my own wrist--I can quantify that. As much as I appreciate your helpfulness, I don't know how to quantify bands or non strength based movement patterns. Where's the fun in fighting if you can't explain how you've won?

 

That being said, I would like to revisit your original suggestion. I do want to get back into training my deviations with sledge hammers--but I want to do it with something similar to Slim's double hammer set up. Do you (or anyone else) know who I could talk to have that made?



#11 OFFLINE   33wes

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Posted 26 March 2014 - 10:54 PM

 

 

Your lever work sounds solid. Maybe doing seated counterclockwise circles would help. Perhaps as an alternative you could do your static exercise with a band attached to a hook.

I appreciate your suggestions. I don't however, know exactly what counterclockwise circles are, but that sounds like it is based around a movement principle. That being said, as a support lifter, I usually don't move very much, but when I do, it is to fill my muscles with blood so that are not stiff for several days. I use movement based things like bench, squat, feats of strength, and etc. like an Olympic lifter practices his lifts: to train the motor pattern, and test myself in order to gauge my progress. Also, because of how hard these holds are on my joints and connective tissues, any sort of resistance that increases exponentially (like say bands or chains) just sounds like a terrible idea. That's not to say that these are bad suggestions; they might be exactly the sort of thing I need to do; I just like power movements that utilize dead weight when it comes to training.

 

You will notice that that is exactly what I tried to accomplish with the design of my wrist extension exercise: develop a power based hold for the wrist extensors in which heavy weight can be utilized. I have tried moving the dumbbell around, and can lift the 75lb dumbbell like 15 times or so each wrist, but I don't like the way that feels nearly as much as adding five pounds and squeezing out over three seconds of isometric power in order to save myself from breaking my own wrist--I can quantify that. As much as I appreciate your helpfulness, I don't know how to quantify bands or non strength based movement patterns. Where's the fun in fighting if you can't explain how you've won?

 

That being said, I would like to revisit your original suggestion. I do want to get back into training my deviations with sledge hammers--but I want to do it with something similar to Slim's double hammer set up. Do you (or anyone else) know who I could talk to have that made?

 

You might try Ryan at Strongergrip. He does custom built items such as you've described. I have several of his items and find that they are extremely well made.

 

 

 



#12 OFFLINE   climber511

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Posted 27 March 2014 - 05:55 AM

 

It's pretty easy to make your own double sledge setup if this is what you mean.  Four long carriage bolts and some washers and nuts - a drill and a few minutes work is all.  Well you do need a matched pair of hammers too :).



#13 OFFLINE   wulfgeat

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Posted 27 March 2014 - 06:57 PM

 

 

 

Your lever work sounds solid. Maybe doing seated counterclockwise circles would help. Perhaps as an alternative you could do your static exercise with a band attached to a hook.

I appreciate your suggestions. I don't however, know exactly what counterclockwise circles are, but that sounds like it is based around a movement principle. That being said, as a support lifter, I usually don't move very much, but when I do, it is to fill my muscles with blood so that are not stiff for several days. I use movement based things like bench, squat, feats of strength, and etc. like an Olympic lifter practices his lifts: to train the motor pattern, and test myself in order to gauge my progress. Also, because of how hard these holds are on my joints and connective tissues, any sort of resistance that increases exponentially (like say bands or chains) just sounds like a terrible idea. That's not to say that these are bad suggestions; they might be exactly the sort of thing I need to do; I just like power movements that utilize dead weight when it comes to training.

 

You will notice that that is exactly what I tried to accomplish with the design of my wrist extension exercise: develop a power based hold for the wrist extensors in which heavy weight can be utilized. I have tried moving the dumbbell around, and can lift the 75lb dumbbell like 15 times or so each wrist, but I don't like the way that feels nearly as much as adding five pounds and squeezing out over three seconds of isometric power in order to save myself from breaking my own wrist--I can quantify that. As much as I appreciate your helpfulness, I don't know how to quantify bands or non strength based movement patterns. Where's the fun in fighting if you can't explain how you've won?

 

That being said, I would like to revisit your original suggestion. I do want to get back into training my deviations with sledge hammers--but I want to do it with something similar to Slim's double hammer set up. Do you (or anyone else) know who I could talk to have that made?

 

You might try Ryan at Strongergrip. He does custom built items such as you've described. I have several of his items and find that they are extremely well made.

 

 

 

 

 

Thank you!!! As I have never made my own grip equipment, I might actually look into that. 

It's pretty easy to make your own double sledge setup if this is what you mean. Four long carriage bolts and some washers and nuts - a drill and a few minutes work is all. Well you do need a matched pair of hammers too :).

 

You made your own????? That's fantastic!!! Could you give me more details: bolt diameters, lengths, and how you got those blasted things to stick to the hammer heads? (Did you really drill through the heads????) If I don't feel like I am going to ruin two perfectly good sledge hammers I might follow suit.



#14 OFFLINE   climber511

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Posted 27 March 2014 - 08:30 PM

 

 

 

 

Your lever work sounds solid. Maybe doing seated counterclockwise circles would help. Perhaps as an alternative you could do your static exercise with a band attached to a hook.

I appreciate your suggestions. I don't however, know exactly what counterclockwise circles are, but that sounds like it is based around a movement principle. That being said, as a support lifter, I usually don't move very much, but when I do, it is to fill my muscles with blood so that are not stiff for several days. I use movement based things like bench, squat, feats of strength, and etc. like an Olympic lifter practices his lifts: to train the motor pattern, and test myself in order to gauge my progress. Also, because of how hard these holds are on my joints and connective tissues, any sort of resistance that increases exponentially (like say bands or chains) just sounds like a terrible idea. That's not to say that these are bad suggestions; they might be exactly the sort of thing I need to do; I just like power movements that utilize dead weight when it comes to training.

 

You will notice that that is exactly what I tried to accomplish with the design of my wrist extension exercise: develop a power based hold for the wrist extensors in which heavy weight can be utilized. I have tried moving the dumbbell around, and can lift the 75lb dumbbell like 15 times or so each wrist, but I don't like the way that feels nearly as much as adding five pounds and squeezing out over three seconds of isometric power in order to save myself from breaking my own wrist--I can quantify that. As much as I appreciate your helpfulness, I don't know how to quantify bands or non strength based movement patterns. Where's the fun in fighting if you can't explain how you've won?

 

That being said, I would like to revisit your original suggestion. I do want to get back into training my deviations with sledge hammers--but I want to do it with something similar to Slim's double hammer set up. Do you (or anyone else) know who I could talk to have that made?

 

You might try Ryan at Strongergrip. He does custom built items such as you've described. I have several of his items and find that they are extremely well made.

 

 

 

 

 

Thank you!!! As I have never made my own grip equipment, I might actually look into that. 

It's pretty easy to make your own double sledge setup if this is what you mean. Four long carriage bolts and some washers and nuts - a drill and a few minutes work is all. Well you do need a matched pair of hammers too :).

 

You made your own????? That's fantastic!!! Could you give me more details: bolt diameters, lengths, and how you got those blasted things to stick to the hammer heads? (Did you really drill through the heads????) If I don't feel like I am going to ruin two perfectly good sledge hammers I might follow suit.

 

http://www.stylesdev...511/default.htm

 

It's badly in need of an update but here is my gym (it's much different now but.you get the idea  ....) - everything here is homemade.  As far as ruining your sledge hammers - it depends how you do it I guess - I welded nuts onto one end and one side.  I'll take some pics and some measurements for you and post them.  Making simple things like this doesn't require welding if you buy weighted magnets for the added weight.  And all you need to make the double is a drill.  I'll set you up with what you need to know. 



#15 OFFLINE   Arne

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Posted 28 March 2014 - 08:08 AM

Sorry wrong post...

Edited by Arne, 28 March 2014 - 08:11 AM.


#16 OFFLINE   slazbob

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Posted 28 March 2014 - 10:41 AM

Chris-
I noticed one of them shin training devices in your grip section. Do you use it for grip?

Edited by slazbob, 28 March 2014 - 10:41 AM.


#17 OFFLINE   climber511

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Posted 28 March 2014 - 01:22 PM

Chris-
I noticed one of them shin training devices in your grip section. Do you use it for grip?

It's a DARD.  No I don't use it for grip.  BUT it was also the foundation idea behind the Climber Curl device that is used for Grip by a few people now. 



#18 OFFLINE   climber511

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Posted 28 March 2014 - 02:48 PM

 

 

 

 

Your lever work sounds solid. Maybe doing seated counterclockwise circles would help. Perhaps as an alternative you could do your static exercise with a band attached to a hook.

I appreciate your suggestions. I don't however, know exactly what counterclockwise circles are, but that sounds like it is based around a movement principle. That being said, as a support lifter, I usually don't move very much, but when I do, it is to fill my muscles with blood so that are not stiff for several days. I use movement based things like bench, squat, feats of strength, and etc. like an Olympic lifter practices his lifts: to train the motor pattern, and test myself in order to gauge my progress. Also, because of how hard these holds are on my joints and connective tissues, any sort of resistance that increases exponentially (like say bands or chains) just sounds like a terrible idea. That's not to say that these are bad suggestions; they might be exactly the sort of thing I need to do; I just like power movements that utilize dead weight when it comes to training.

 

You will notice that that is exactly what I tried to accomplish with the design of my wrist extension exercise: develop a power based hold for the wrist extensors in which heavy weight can be utilized. I have tried moving the dumbbell around, and can lift the 75lb dumbbell like 15 times or so each wrist, but I don't like the way that feels nearly as much as adding five pounds and squeezing out over three seconds of isometric power in order to save myself from breaking my own wrist--I can quantify that. As much as I appreciate your helpfulness, I don't know how to quantify bands or non strength based movement patterns. Where's the fun in fighting if you can't explain how you've won?

 

That being said, I would like to revisit your original suggestion. I do want to get back into training my deviations with sledge hammers--but I want to do it with something similar to Slim's double hammer set up. Do you (or anyone else) know who I could talk to have that made?

 

You might try Ryan at Strongergrip. He does custom built items such as you've described. I have several of his items and find that they are extremely well made.

 

 

 

 

 

Thank you!!! As I have never made my own grip equipment, I might actually look into that. 

It's pretty easy to make your own double sledge setup if this is what you mean. Four long carriage bolts and some washers and nuts - a drill and a few minutes work is all. Well you do need a matched pair of hammers too :).

 

You made your own????? That's fantastic!!! Could you give me more details: bolt diameters, lengths, and how you got those blasted things to stick to the hammer heads? (Did you really drill through the heads????) If I don't feel like I am going to ruin two perfectly good sledge hammers I might follow suit.

 

I started a new topic showing what I did.


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#19 OFFLINE   wulfgeat

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Posted 31 March 2014 - 12:33 PM

Today I managed both 80 and 85 lbs in my wrist extension hold for ten seconds each hand. The pro is that I have to use the dumbbells at my gym for weights 80-95lbs (these dumbbells have 1 3/8 inch thick handles, making it supper hard on my thumbs). The con is that the heavy weight compresses the seat cushion and drops my arm 30 degrees from parallel to the floor. I really don't like that second part, but whatever. I will just find a way to make sure I level out when I post my final video of a 100 lb hold.

 

I discovered a levering variation that can be performed with an offloaded dumbbell which isolates the Carpi extensor ulnaris, and places more stress on the tendon insertion than anything I am currently doing. I will post that as soon as I can make a video that will upload.



#20 OFFLINE   wulfgeat

wulfgeat

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 07:49 PM

I know it's been awhile, but here's the update: I gave myself some elbow pain in my left lateral epicondyle (the side the wrist extensors are on) bending a diamond bronco #1. So I have just now thought about doing wrist extensions again. I have put bending done for a minute and decided to work primarily on rack pulls and a shrug like exercise for the bench press. The three rack pulls I am doing are a jefferson deadlift version, a hack lift version, and a second stage convential deadlift version. For the bench like exercise, think shoulder bridge press, except off pins with a large emphasis on locked arms and scapular protraction.

 

With that levering exercise I have been working with, I realized that what I thought was the origin of my extensor tendon is actually my anconeus muscle. And sense I have been improving on that I have noticed that my left one is much weaker than my right and my elbow pain has subsided for now. I have some other levering exercises that I might show later.

 

The video might not be entirely clear but I have my arm locked and my wrist slightly extended. I feel the tension in the extensors, the anconeus, the triceps, and the rear delt. In the video I am using 35 lbs, and it is heavy.

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