Question About Horseshoes

[wulfgeat]

When it comes to bending, I am most passionate about horseshoes. I have tried to do my homework in terms of buying relevant materials, utilizing and inventing assistance exercises, and studying the technique of great horseshoe benders, but unfortunately, I still have some questions.

I was looking at the "Texas Twisters" thread, I noticed that Horseshoes at that time were separated into two types: Dust Devils and Tornadoes. When I looked at Ivan's thread, which documented the Top Twenty Horseshoe benders, I noticed that the previous separation seemed to have melted away, which I guess favored a more well rounded horseshoe bender (capable of bending several sizes and styles).

Refering back to the "Texas Twisters" thread, I saw that Eric Milfeld made the observation that Diamond Plain 000 were very wrist and grip intensive, while the Diamond Special 5 required more upper body strength. Based on that then, it would seem that the smaller shoes were more of a grip feat than the larger shoes.

This brings me to my question: are these difficulty distinctions between the larger and smaller shoes still valid in the same way that there are clear difficulty distinctions between 6 inch and 7 inch bars for unbraced bending?

The reason I ask is because one of my goals is to bend a Kerchaert SSP 000, and I feel that a more specific training method would be to focus on the 000 size range while I am working up to it, but that of course begs the question: does it matter if I do that?

I also have to ask: is there a harder 000 (or 00) shoe than the SSP 000? And if so, what is/are they?

The list that I have compiled thus far in increasing difficulty is this: SCF Lite Rim 00, SCF Lite Plain 00, Diamond Classic 000?, Diamond Plain 000, SCF Regular Plain 000, Kerchaert SSP 000, and Kerchaert SN 000.

If anyone with more experience with horseshoes/bending could clarify/correct anything I have here (or add to my list) that would be outstanding.

PS. I need to thank David Wigren and his SSP 000 certification bend for inspiring to bend horseshoes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXIx1tqSg_o

[Tim71]

I'm not great at horseshoes but from what I've seen, if you want the absolute hardest "small shoe" challenge then some of the mule shoes must be the ticket. Some of them would rank as impossible in my opinion but hey, you never know.

Hopefully someone else will reply because it's always been my least favorite area and I dabbled in it simply for the feat of strength aspect of it.

I would certainly say that some of the larger shoes are also grip feats because in my experience, they really want to twist in your grip.

Good luck.

[Buccos1]

This brings me to my question: are these difficulty distinctions between the larger and smaller shoes still valid in the same way that there are clear difficulty distinctions between 6 inch and 7 inch bars for unbraced bending?

The reason I ask is because one of my goals is to bend a Kerchaert SSP 000, and I feel that a more specific training method would be to focus on the 000 size range while I am working up to it, but that of course begs the question: does it matter if I do that?

In my experience bending shoes, there is a huge difference in the larger ones (DS4/DS5 etc.) and the smaller ones (RP0/PL00/PL000). At 5'9" and with normal/shorter arms, I have found trying to get set-up and beneficial leverage on the larger shoes very difficult. I have done OK with some of the sized 2/3 shoes and nearly bent a DS5, but it was always an awkward set-up for me, despite multiple angles. With the shoes sized 1 and below, I never had that problem. It felt more natural (as much as bending a shoe can feel natural!).

When I finally figured this out, and got over the fact that chasing some of the "larger-sized" shoes was awkward, and somewhat risky (for me), I began to focus solely on the shoes in the 0/00/000 range, and saw steady progress. Interestingly, even after taking a month-or-two off here-and-there, and going back to a more difficult shoe (PL000 etc.), I was able to jump right back in at near-previous levels. But this wasn't true of the larger shoes. For instance, I tried to bend a RP3 (bent many of these in the past) and was only able to get it open to about 50-60 degrees, with a fight. So, at least for me, it was impossible to maintain any previous level with the larger shoes without consistent work and training. With the smaller shoes, once the form was dialed-in, I kept near that level, regardless of break.

Now, if my leverages were different, I know that would likely change my focus and training, including doing a lot more with some of the bigger-sized shoes. But, if your goal is the SSP000, focusing on shoes of similar dimensions wouldn't be a bad idea. The SSP shoes in general take some getting used to, specifically the shape of the leg and its tendency to want to "roll." With the SSPs, I've had to alter my kink to really pull the leg at a modified angle when trying to post, or risk a lot of wasted effort.

And I watched a TON of David's videos when I was trying to improve. One of the best!

[Buccos1]

if you want the absolute hardest "small shoe" challenge then some of the mule shoes must be the ticket. Some of them would rank as impossible in my opinion but hey, you never know.

The mule shoes are nasty! A year-or-so ago, when I was bending SSP000s to 120-150 pretty regularly, I tried one of these of similar dimension and was able to get 5 degrees of movement. Last week, I tried one again (first time in over a year ?) and opened it up to about 45 degrees. A beast of a shoe, but a good choice to do kink "isos" with when you are breaking into the PL000 range.

[wulfgeat]

Thanks Tim!!! I appreciate you taking a look!

if you want the absolute hardest "small shoe" challenge then some of the mule shoes must be the ticket. Some of them would rank as impossible in my opinion but hey, you never know.

The mule shoes are nasty! A year-or-so ago, when I was bending SSP000s to 120-150 pretty regularly, I tried one of these of similar dimension and was able to get 5 degrees of movement. Last week, I tried one again (first time in over a year ?) and opened it up to about 45 degrees. A beast of a shoe, but a good choice to do kink "isos" with when you are breaking into the PL000 range.

I will probably try to get my hands on some of those mule shoes then.

This brings me to my question: are these difficulty distinctions between the larger and smaller shoes still valid in the same way that there are clear difficulty distinctions between 6 inch and 7 inch bars for unbraced bending?

The reason I ask is because one of my goals is to bend a Kerchaert SSP 000, and I feel that a more specific training method would be to focus on the 000 size range while I am working up to it, but that of course begs the question: does it matter if I do that?

In my experience bending shoes, there is a huge difference in the larger ones (DS4/DS5 etc.) and the smaller ones (RP0/PL00/PL000). At 5'9" and with normal/shorter arms, I have found trying to get set-up and beneficial leverage on the larger shoes very difficult. I have done OK with some of the sized 2/3 shoes and nearly bent a DS5, but it was always an awkward set-up for me, despite multiple angles. With the shoes sized 1 and below, I never had that problem. It felt more natural (as much as bending a shoe can feel natural!).

When I finally figured this out, and got over the fact that chasing some of the "larger-sized" shoes was awkward, and somewhat risky (for me), I began to focus solely on the shoes in the 0/00/000 range, and saw steady progress. Interestingly, even after taking a month-or-two off here-and-there, and going back to a more difficult shoe (PL000 etc.), I was able to jump right back in at near-previous levels. But this wasn't true of the larger shoes. For instance, I tried to bend a RP3 (bent many of these in the past) and was only able to get it open to about 50-60 degrees, with a fight. So, at least for me, it was impossible to maintain any previous level with the larger shoes without consistent work and training. With the smaller shoes, once the form was dialed-in, I kept near that level, regardless of break.

Now, if my leverages were different, I know that would likely change my focus and training, including doing a lot more with some of the bigger-sized shoes. But, if your goal is the SSP000, focusing on shoes of similar dimensions wouldn't be a bad idea. The SSP shoes in general take some getting used to, specifically the shape of the leg and its tendency to want to "roll." With the SSPs, I've had to alter my kink to really pull the leg at a modified angle when trying to post, or risk a lot of wasted effort.

And I watched a TON of David's videos when I was trying to improve. One of the best!

What??? I'm 5'8" with normal/shorter arms. . . I will definately keep all of that in mind as I move forward in this endeavor.

Thanks for responding! I always appreciate your feed back.

[nickr104]

The St Criox mule shoes are tough little shoes . The 1 and 0 would be good shoes to work with to get to that SSP 000.

[wulfgeat]

The St Criox mule shoes are tough little shoes . The 1 and 0 would be good shoes to work with to get to that SSP 000.

Thanks Man! I will definately have to check those out!