Second Red (need Crush Advise!)

[jchapman]

I just bent my second Red ever. I was very pleased with the kink and sweep which took me well under 2:00. I then proceeded to battle the crush for the next 13 minutes before finally getting it under 2". I need help on the crush, please!

I realize that this isn't the most productive training, battling bends for so long like this. What is my next step? Do I start with crush iso's? Help!

[Mike Sharkey]

Isos, isos, isos. EJ will chime in, as he's the expert, but what worked for me was to do no other bending, but hit the bar 5-8 times with as much as I could muster for as long as I could muster, up to 10 seconds. Then take a day or three off and repeat until you move the bar more.

[Buccos1]

Your kink looked really strong! I know a lot of people have had excellent success with isos (and I tried to be one of them), but they ended up causing me more problems with old injuries in the process. So, I never really did them for more than a session here-and-there.

My recommendation to you would be to build up your endurance a little. The way you blasted through the initial portions of the bend, it's just a matter of time. I know during long battle sessions like that, I would be completely exhausted and wasn't hitting it like I normally would toward the end. This is where you use everything you have at the beginning and destroy it, not giving it a chance to settle, making things way more difficult. I've had decent success with the "gripper crush" at the end of the bend, especially with longer stock. It can be very tough to finish it like you were attempting to with both hands on the outside, trying to "crush" inward.

And when I couldn't get my fingers around the other end of the wrap (which happens a lot), I normally unravel the wraps a few times, making it possible to get a grip. It is a lot more painful, but your fingers will adapt pretty quickly.

[king crusher]

Man that was a brutal fight. I'm for sure no expert but the regulars on here all say not to bend over. For me I go to the chest crush position when I can get my fingers interlocked. Try that way?

[Tim71]

Everybody has their own style and what works for them. Typically, a long battle with steel makes me stronger the next time and lots of the "old timers" felt the same way although some of the guys on here now say it doesn't work best for them.

Which is right? Whatever works for you is the best.

Some of the new reds have a pretty rough crush as well so don't feel bad. 10 years ago, once you got the steel moving, the red was dead but these days they are a little more defiant.

My opinion, if you battled the crush that long, you will be noticeably stronger on it the next time.

[jchapman]

Thanks for the opinions, guys. Lots of good details I hadn't considered: iso holds, endurance, unraveling the wrap for gripper crush, finding my own way that works, etc. Good stuff!

[Tim71]

I also sometimes pull the wrap off in my dominant (right) hand, and fold it up and put it against the steel as well. This seems to give me a little more on the crush.

[jchapman]

I also sometimes pull the wrap off in my dominant (right) hand, and fold it up and put it against the steel as well. This seems to give me a little more on the crush.

Like a crush pad? Do you have video of this? Thanks.

[Tim71]

Yes, just fold it up like a crush pad. Sometimes if I pull a wrap off to look at it or measure it I can't slide if back on anyway so that works out good. Ironmind pads do that to me a lot so quickly folding one up into a crush pad works good for me sometimes.

[EJ Livesey]

Isos helped me tremendously. But I found it's more of an advanced form of training. It will and has caused many injuries to many people. Isos helps Mike because he did to a of volume work and conditioned his body for it. Do you do lots of volume work? If not you are setting yourself up for injury. Isos allow you to generate way more force than you actually know you are making.

My advice to help all around is this:

Kink a few bars- stop. Let sit over night

Sweep bars- stop let sit over night

Crush bars- stop rest a day or so.

Repeat.

I found doing this does not over train or put too much demand in your CNS. You get more of a workout from a single bar, because it work hardens. It also allows you to gain mental strength and confidence because every session you are making progress and gains. I really believe fighting with a bar that long causes more harm then it's worth. You get tired, then you get sloppy, then you get hurt. I've limited myself to about 10mins worth of fight. If it's not done by then, I won't finish it in that session.

Edited June 27, 2014 by EJ Livesey

[Buccos1]

I really believe fighting with a bar that long causes more harm then it's worth. You get tired, then you get sloppy, then you get hurt.

I should have mentioned this too in my post. Technique is so important (IMO), that by extending your sessions to longer lengths, you are "learning" bad form/technique, and reinforcing bad mind-muscle connections. A long battle with a bar will make you mentally tougher, but, the chance of injury skyrockets when technique breaks down, and frustration rises.

I used to go into a bend with the mentality, "If I cannot bend it in under one-minute, I need to get stronger." Not all bends were fast, but this mindset set the tone from the start.

[jchapman]

Isos helped me tremendously. But I found it's more of an advanced form of training. It will and has caused many injuries to many people. Isos helps Mike because he did to a of volume work and conditioned his body for it. Do you do lots of volume work? If not you are setting yourself up for injury. Isos allow you to generate way more force than you actually know you are making.

My advice to help all around is this:

Kink a few bars- stop. Let sit over night

Sweep bars- stop let sit over night

Crush bars- stop rest a day or so.

Repeat.

I found doing this does not over train or put too much demand in your CNS. You get more of a workout from a single bar, because it work hardens. It also allows you to gain mental strength and confidence because every session you are making progress and gains. I really believe fighting with a bar that long causes more harm then it's worth. You get tired, then you get sloppy, then you get hurt. I've limited myself to about 10mins worth of fight. If it's not done by then, I won't finish it in that session.

No I have not been doing the kind of volume work that would prepare me for iso's. I will do the program you outlined.

I really believe fighting with a bar that long causes more harm then it's worth. You get tired, then you get sloppy, then you get hurt.

I should have mentioned this too in my post. Technique is so important (IMO), that by extending your sessions to longer lengths, you are "learning" bad form/technique, and reinforcing bad mind-muscle connections. A long battle with a bar will make you mentally tougher, but, the chance of injury skyrockets when technique breaks down, and frustration rises.

I used to go into a bend with the mentality, "If I cannot bend it in under one-minute, I need to get stronger." Not all bends were fast, but this mindset set the tone from the start.

I agree. I needed to bend the Red a couple times to break the mental barrier, but I realized it isn't productive to train long term this way.

[Tim71]

As you can see, there are various views on the subject. EJ brings up some very good points about volume and let's face it, who can argue with the results he's gotten.

When I started in all this, everybody was doing much more volume so I did the same so it had a conditioning effect that can't be denied. Whenever I found that I could bend 60d nails, that's all I wanted to do. One of the techniques people used to use is buy a 50 pound box of timber ties and bend them until you were finished - no matter how many sessions it took then you were supposedly ready for the next step. I'm not personally suggesting we go back to doing that but it did have a benefit evidently.