Where Do You Stack Up?

[Rick Walker]

Heath: he might not have been able to bench, but with those other lifts I would willing to bet he was one hell of a deadlifter.

Actually; squats, deadlifts, etc. do carry over to other things besides the pursuit of getting better or athletes in nearly every sport wouldnt do them. Not too many NFL players or UFC fighters bending steel, but I bet most of them squat and deadlift. And I have a serious heart condition as well, it hasnt stopped me from always getting back under the bar.

[Bearcat 74]

Rick, he probably was a good dl'er. We weren't allowed to DL in high school, too dangerous, lol. He was a solid 275x1 squatter though and it looked like he was having a seizure when he was doing it, lol.

My Dad who was crazy strong in his day always said he just never could get the hang of a bar, just didn't feel right. IMHO the guy I played high school ball with was the same way. The men in his family all logged for a living so he grew up pulling chokers and working in the log woods. To this day he is the same way, he hasn't been in the weightroom since high school but is still crazy strong.

[Mike Sharkey]

Heath: he might not have been able to bench, but with those other lifts I would willing to bet he was one hell of a deadlifter.

Actually; squats, deadlifts, etc. do carry over to other things besides the pursuit of getting better or athletes in nearly every sport wouldnt do them. Not too many NFL players or UFC fighters bending steel, but I bet most of them squat and deadlift. And I have a serious heart condition as well, it hasnt stopped me from always getting back under the bar.

This is not really accurate. Many martial artists don't lift weights at all, or if they do, not very much. They certainly don't judge their ability by the "Big 3".

[Mike Sharkey]

Also if you want to use weights as the metric, PL is not the choice. It's really the poor man's Olympic Weightlifting, which is a far far better demonstration of strength than slow linear movements. Everytime someone posts this "where do you stack up" or "because Rippetoe" my heart sighs deeply and I cry a little bit inside.

Edited May 30, 2015 by Mike Sharkey

[Mike Sharkey]

For reference, here's Marcello Garcia vs the UFC champ Andrei Arolvski. Andrei is 250# and jacked. Marcello is a cool 155# and never lifts weights.

Enjoy!

[David Mitti]

For reference, here's Marcello Garcia vs the UFC champ Andrei Arolvski. Andrei is 250# and jacked. Marcello is a cool 155# and never lifts weights.

Enjoy!

Garcia is the man!!

[king crusher]

585 dead, 345 bench and 435 squat. Different times though not all the same day which makes a big difference. Also have done 350 front squat, 240 seated mil press to the chest, 225 standing mil.

[Evan Raftopoulos]

Closing grippers, pinching plates, bending steel are all nice hobbies but if they dont translate over into total body strength their purpose is to simply wow some people on this board and youtube.

Rick I’m not following your point. What do you mean by “total body strength” ? It all depends on the task and grip strength translates to many functional tasks. The hobby comment and wowing people doesn’t make sense to me either. I can’t imagine someone putting all that effort to get stronger with grip just to wow others while doing squats or deadlifts for other reasons. Perhaps I'm missing your point.

Edited May 31, 2015 by Evan Raftopoulos

[Evan Raftopoulos]

btw is that why you sold all your grippers?

[Rick Walker]

I try to stay on top of all forms of athletics to better serve my clients, so I read various books, manuals, etc. to keep me sharp. The book Training For Warriors by Renzo Gracie stresses quite a bit the importance of weight training for MMA, grappling, etc. Having the skill, speed, and know how is important, but add the component of full body strength (gained through compound movements) to your knowldge base and you become much better.

I thought we were talking strength here??? Olympic Weightlifting is the art of perfect technique mixed with amazing speed. You cant do a slow snatch or a slow clean and jerk, so weights moved often times are dependent on technique (the lifts take years and years to master, than years and years to move heavyweight) and speed. The squat, deadlift, and overhead press can be learned in a day and perfected in months. You can take some of the greatest powerlfters of all time, say Chris Duffin's 880 squat in a belt and knee wraps and you wouldnt find a 220 weightlifter that could do that. Duffin has also deadlifted 900 with straps, show me an Oly Weightlifter who does that?? Jerking 500 overhead is completely ddependent on the speed of pulling yourself under the bar and the support (bone on bone) and balance to hold it overhead.

I squat, deadlift, and do a variety of other movements to improve my overall quality of life. When I am out cutting wood it feels good to shoulder and 8 foot piece of trunk, carry it back to my yard, finish chainsawing it, and monster maul it into pieces. Just doing grip doesnt translate well into hoisting an 8 foot log onto my shoulders. When my mother-in-law ended up sideways down my driveway last winter and wedged on the rocks, it was easy for me to lift up and push her off the rocks, prventing damage to her new car. Grip with a weak back and legs wouldnt help me do that. Lifting huge boulders to get my landscaping done didnt come from grip. My State Trooper friend benches over 400 and couldnt break half of these rocks off the ground with a belt on and kept telling me, as I lifted them, carried them, and set them into place with no belt that I was going to get a hernia. That didnt come from grip training alone. That is what I mean, my training makes life easier and keeps me healthy.

I sold my grippers because I have a very nice RB chrome adjustable that has the ability to equal all grippers out there. I have zero interest in certifications anymore, so it makes no sense to have torsion hand grippers. When I was young and craved the admiration of others to justfy my training, I worried about certs and grip milestones. Now I could care less. I just want to impress and motivate my children, who will be MUCH stronger than I ever was!

[James Retarides]

I missed in the article where it was assumed the author was talking about total body strong. I was never the guy that turned heads or for gym stares over my deadlift or squat but did frequently when working forearms, biceps, triceps and back. I did a lot of specialized training for armwrestling because I did it for 15-16 years. Frequently people in both the gym and at armwrestling tournaments would approach me and say some variation of "you're strong." Essentially from the outset, the definition of strength in the article is out of touch with reality and functional strength as well as strength in general has a lot more to do with than three lifts. I saw Chris Rider tear a very thick, hard cover book last night at Sorinex Summer Strong. It never occurred to me to ask him what he squats. Derek Poundstone looked on with amazement and several people just said "wow" or "that's strong."

[king crusher]

I try to stay on top of all forms of athletics to better serve my clients, so I read various books, manuals, etc. to keep me sharp. The book Training For Warriors by Renzo Gracie stresses quite a bit the importance of weight training for MMA, grappling, etc. Having the skill, speed, and know how is important, but add the component of full body strength (gained through compound movements) to your knowldge base and you become much better.

I thought we were talking strength here??? Olympic Weightlifting is the art of perfect technique mixed with amazing speed. You cant do a slow snatch or a slow clean and jerk, so weights moved often times are dependent on technique (the lifts take years and years to master, than years and years to move heavyweight) and speed. The squat, deadlift, and overhead press can be learned in a day and perfected in months. You can take some of the greatest powerlfters of all time, say Chris Duffin's 880 squat in a belt and knee wraps and you wouldnt find a 220 weightlifter that could do that. Duffin has also deadlifted 900 with straps, show me an Oly Weightlifter who does that?? Jerking 500 overhead is completely ddependent on the speed of pulling yourself under the bar and the support (bone on bone) and balance to hold it overhead.

I squat, deadlift, and do a variety of other movements to improve my overall quality of life. When I am out cutting wood it feels good to shoulder and 8 foot piece of trunk, carry it back to my yard, finish chainsawing it, and monster maul it into pieces. Just doing grip doesnt translate well into hoisting an 8 foot log onto my shoulders. When my mother-in-law ended up sideways down my driveway last winter and wedged on the rocks, it was easy for me to lift up and push her off the rocks, prventing damage to her new car. Grip with a weak back and legs wouldnt help me do that. Lifting huge boulders to get my landscaping done didnt come from grip. My State Trooper friend benches over 400 and couldnt break half of these rocks off the ground with a belt on and kept telling me, as I lifted them, carried them, and set them into place with no belt that I was going to get a hernia. That didnt come from grip training alone. That is what I mean, my training makes life easier and keeps me healthy.

I sold my grippers because I have a very nice RB chrome adjustable that has the ability to equal all grippers out there. I have zero interest in certifications anymore, so it makes no sense to have torsion hand grippers. When I was young and craved the admiration of others to justfy my training, I worried about certs and grip milestones. Now I could care less. I just want to impress and motivate my children, who will be MUCH stronger than I ever was!

That duffin guy is juiced out of his mind and we are talking natural here.

I do pride myself on functional strength though not just gym lifts. I grew up doing hard work, things like building fences pounding posts by hand and jack hammering concrete slabs manually loading the pieces into wheel barrows and loading them on trucks than manually throwing the big pieces out at the dump haha.

The other day I dug a 65' trench 18" deep for a new sump discharge line at my house with just a small shovel.

Some people who only get good at gym lifts are not strong all over outside those specific lifts I think that's funtional strength.

[climber511]

The "strength" that I aspire to is one "in balance" between all my pieces and parts. I want it all to fit and work together to give me a smooth moving, coordinated body that can lift, run, jump, climb, and carry while being as injury free as possible. I don't want to be "weak" but I also don't want to be "strong" if it's only in a certain few lifts or movements or at the expense of other lifts and movements in my life. I don't want to have to gain body weight simply to increase lifting numbers as I find that counter productive to my health in the aging process. My overriding goal at this point is to "Age Well" whatever that means now. It certainly means trying to maintain a certain level of raw strength in the generally accepted weightlifting movements but it also means trying to have my body strong in every plane of movement possible such as in my climbing. I try to work every single muscle or body part including things like the muscles in my feet, my shins, my neck, forearm extensors etc - all the things most neglect, or at best hit indirectly. Standards are great and fun to read and talk about, but seldom are enough for the "balance" that I personally am searching for.

[James Retarides]

It seems strong means different things to different people depending on their own goals and what impresses them personally. It would be nice if we all allowed ourselves to be impressed by the accomplishments of others that we either have not done ourselves, had to work very hard to accomplish or understand a fraction of the population can achieve.

[James Retarides]

Here's the actual definition

strong

strôNG/

adjective

adjective: strong; comparative adjective: stronger; superlative adjective: strongest

1.

having the power to move heavy weights or perform other physically demanding tasks.

"she cut through the water with her strong arms"

synonyms: powerful, muscular, brawny, powerfully built, strapping, sturdy, burly, heavily built, meaty, robust, athletic, tough, rugged, lusty, strong as an ox/horse; More

informalbeefy, hunky, husky;

datedstalwart

"Ben is a strong lad"

antonyms: weak, puny

able to perform a specified action well and powerfully.

"he was not a strong swimmer"

exerting great force.

"a strong current"

synonyms: forceful, powerful, vigorous, fierce, intense

"the current is very strong"

antonyms: gentle

(of an argument or case) likely to succeed because of sound reasoning or convincing evidence.

"there is a strong argument for decentralization"

synonyms: compelling, cogent, forceful, powerful, potent, weighty, convincing, sound, valid, well founded, persuasive, influential

"strong arguments"

antonyms: weak, unconvincing

possessing skills and qualities that create a likelihood of success.

"the competition was too strong"

powerfully affecting the mind, senses, or emotions.

"his imagery made a strong impression on the critics"

synonyms: intense, forceful, passionate, ardent, fervent, fervid, deep-seated; literaryperfervid

"strong feelings"

used after a number to indicate the size of a group.

"a hostile crowd several thousand strong"

2.

able to withstand great force or pressure.

"cotton is strong, hard-wearing, and easy to handle"

synonyms: secure, well built, indestructible, well fortified, well protected, impregnable, solid More

"a strong fortress"

durable, hardwearing, heavy-duty, industrial-strength, tough, sturdy, well made, long-lasting

"strong cotton bags"

antonyms: weak, flimsy

(of a person's constitution) not easily affected by disease or hardship.

not easily disturbed, upset, or affected.

"driving on these highways requires strong nerves"

(of a person's character) showing determination, self-control, and good judgment.

"only a strong will enabled him to survive"

synonyms: forceful, determined, spirited, self-assertive, tough, tenacious, indomitable, formidable, redoubtable, strong-minded; More

informalgutsy, gutty, feisty

"a strong character"

antonyms: weak

(of a market) having steadily high or rising prices.

firmly held or established.

"a strong and trusting relationship"

synonyms: keen, eager, passionate, fervent More

"a strong interest in literature"

keen, eager, enthusiastic, dedicated, staunch, loyal, steadfast

"a strong supporter"

3.

(of light) very intense.

synonyms: intense, deep, rich, bright, brilliant, vivid More

"a strong blue color"

bright, brilliant, dazzling, glaring

"strong lights"

antonyms: pale

(of something seen or heard) not soft or muted; clear or prominent.

"she should wear strong colors"

synonyms: loud, powerful, forceful, resonant, sonorous, rich, deep, booming

"a strong voice"

antonyms: weak, quiet

(of food or its flavor) distinctive and pungent.

"strong cheese"

synonyms: highly flavored, flavorful, piquant, tangy, spicy

"strong cheese"

antonyms: mild

(of a solution or drink) containing a large proportion of a particular substance; concentrated.

"a cup of strong coffee"

synonyms: concentrated, undiluted, potent More

"strong black coffee"

alcoholic, intoxicating, hard, stiff;

formalspirituous

"strong drink"

antonyms: weak, mild, soft, nonalcoholic

(of language or actions) forceful and extreme, especially excessively or unacceptably so.

"the government was urged to take strong measures against the perpetrators of violence"

synonyms: firm, forceful, drastic, extreme

"a need for strong action"

[Evan Raftopoulos]

Olympic Weightlifting is the art of perfect technique mixed with amazing speed. You cant do a slow snatch or a slow clean and jerk, so weights moved often times are dependent on technique (the lifts take years and years to master, than years and years to move heavyweight) and speed. The squat, deadlift, and overhead press can be learned in a day and perfected in months. You can take some of the greatest powerlfters of all time, say Chris Duffin's 880 squat in a belt and knee wraps and you wouldnt find a 220 weightlifter that could do that. Duffin has also deadlifted 900 with straps, show me an Oly Weightlifter who does that?? Jerking 500 overhead is completely ddependent on the speed of pulling yourself under the bar and the support (bone on bone) and balance to hold it overhead.

no disagreement from me here

I squat, deadlift, and do a variety of other movements to improve my overall quality of life. When I am out cutting wood it feels good to shoulder and 8 foot piece of trunk, carry it back to my yard, finish chainsawing it, and monster maul it into pieces. Just doing grip doesnt translate well into hoisting an 8 foot log onto my shoulders. When my mother-in-law ended up sideways down my driveway last winter and wedged on the rocks, it was easy for me to lift up and push her off the rocks, prventing damage to her new car. Grip with a weak back and legs wouldnt help me do that. Lifting huge boulders to get my landscaping done didnt come from grip. My State Trooper friend benches over 400 and couldnt break half of these rocks off the ground with a belt on and kept telling me, as I lifted them, carried them, and set them into place with no belt that I was going to get a hernia. That didnt come from grip training alone. That is what I mean, my training makes life easier and keeps me healthy.

I totally understand. You are talking about the tasks that are important to you and nobody can argue with that. I think it's reasonable to say that everyone has different functional goals and I thought for a minute you were trying to generalize the importance of grip strength. For example, if one's job requires prolonged climbing ladders/buildings/scaffolds developing grip strength helps. I had a construction worker at my clinic once that fell from a 12 ft scaffolding because he lost his balance and his grip wasn't strong enough to hold him. Another example, I train with a lot of obstacle course and street workout athletes and most value body wt exercises and grip strength more than doing heavy squats/deadlifts.

I sold my grippers because I have a very nice RB chrome adjustable that has the ability to equal all grippers out there. I have zero interest in certifications anymore, so it makes no sense to have torsion hand grippers. When I was young and craved the admiration of others to justfy my training, I worried about certs and grip milestones. Now I could care less. I just want to impress and motivate my children, who will be MUCH stronger than I ever was!

nice, I have the chrome RB gripper too and also got the one with negative reps handle so I understand what you are saying. At this point in my training I value a lot the "regular" rated grippers and I do care about certs and grip milestones but who knows, one day that might change for me as well. Thanks for the reply Rick and thanks for those grippers and the eagle loops too .

[Mike Sharkey]

totally understand. You are talking about the tasks that are important to you and nobody can argue with that. I think it's reasonable to say that everyone has different functional goals and I thought for a minute you were trying to generalize the importance of grip strength. For example, if one's job requires prolonged climbing ladders/buildings/scaffolds developing grip strength helps. I had a construction worker at my clinic once that fell from a 12 ft scaffolding because he lost his balance and his grip wasn't strong enough to hold him. Another example, I train with a lot of obstacle course and street workout athletes and most value body wt exercises and grip strength more than doing heavy squats/deadlifts.

You're talking specificity. Which is the name of the game and sort of my point. Train what you want to be able to do. If you want to be built like a brick shithouse, by all means, work up to that 700# DL and 400# bench. I love deadlifting as much as anyone. However, if you're a rock climber or marital artist or armwrestler, I don't know how useful that is for you.

James R. may not have a 500# squat, but is there anyone here who seriously thinks he wouldn't break your arm off is he wanted to? 300# wrist curl. Is he not strong? C'mon. Specificity.

Nate will probably never DL even double BW @ 500#, however, if you shake his hand and think he's not strong I just have to shake my head.

Wiggy is another example. I know in recent times he's working up his lifting numbers, but he bent some of the biggest steel of all time with #'s that were far from elite. Has anyone ever held and AB6. Its insane. He's an absolute strength phenom.

My man Jose is like 160#, but if he hits you in the face, you are not gonna be thinking, "hmmm I wonder if his bench is in the elite category", you're gonna be thinking "damn, that really hurts", because he hits like a ton of bricks. Its not from all the benching he does.

I have a serious problem with anyone who says "if you can't do the things I can do in the way I can do them, you aren't strong". Come to think of it, I have a serious problem with anyone who tries to define and categorize others. Personally, I enjoy diversity.

[Evan Raftopoulos]

Right on Mike, at least according to me.