2014 Fit Expo Grip Contest Information

[Randall Strossen]

Adjustable and quick

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0biRVhsdX0

Pretty much the same thing Jedd has done with the Napalm Pinch named europinch he sells, ingenious way to change width in a few seconds IMO.

As for loading, well that time is always going to exist - its pretty much the same in Olympic lifting, Powerlifting and any other strength sport that requires weights and an implement to lift said weights.

As for the standard argument, Hornes adjustable thickbar and the europinch are far more fair for a sport that relies so much on hand size and leverage.

Imagine this: the IPF just decides tomorrow that everyone has to walk their squats out from the same height in the rack. How would this be fair? It wouldn't, but hey... same standard! Some shorter lifters wouldn't even be able to get the bar across their back and just wouldn't be able to lift OR would have to unrack on the tips of their toes to walk out and that is dangerous, also some taller lifters would put themselves into dangerous/uncomfortable positions as well trying to bend their knees and get low enough to get under the bar, half squat just to unrack? Doesn't seem logical to me.

With the europinch there is a same standard, the weights used in a competition are all the same, the steel discs are all the same, the competitors are still using the same surface area, the only thing different is the starting width to accommodate the size of their hands, the same thing as walking out a squat or unracking a bench. They are all determined by the height of the lifter or the length of their arms, kinda how the euro widths are determined by the space between the thumb joint and first knuckle.

I think squatting more is the key to everything but I respectfully disagree with this IPF analogy, which has also been raised by my all-time favorite GripBoard antagonist, Josh Dale (who also likes to use the word said in the same way as you did): Rather, if you changed the diameter of the plates or the bar, based on things like height or hand size, then you'd have the parallel you seek.

Not sure if you know who Halil Mutlu is, but his hands are so small that the only way he could hook the bar was to use his knee to jam in his hand first. So, in what some would say was a no-win situation for him, Mutlu's no-whine approach filled his pockets with world records and Olympic gold medals.

[Mike Sharkey]

To me, the classics are either lifting a plate by its hub or pinching a parallel-sided thing like a rafter (for chins) or a smooth plate (for a deadliest). To me, the hub is inherently more appealing and interesting, but either can work, but as a general thing, I dislike adjustable implements because in sports, everyone competes on the same stuff.

I would disagree with this to some extent.

Take baseball for example. Yes, everyone hits and throws the same ball, but saying there is no room for adjustability or variation in implement is like saying everyone has to use the exact same bat. There are set standards for the outside parameters of how long a bat may be and how much it may weigh, just as the Pinch Apparatus is adjustable within a set rubric. I.e., the height cannot be changed but the width can. Ultimately, we are talking about evaluating hand strength, not hand size and if you want to standardize a test, using plates simply will not work because they vary so wildly - and obviously it is for this reason that the IM Hub has become the benchmark, it is a device that is available and repeatable, just as the Pinch is. And further, just because something is classic, this does not make it worthwhile per se nor necessarily the preeminent standard to use in evaluating a particular metric. Just my 2 cents.

[Stephen Ruby]

I like the idea of the saxon bar more then the euro pinch personally for a few reasons

Sorinex makes a good one but ironmind could make something similar. I would like to see they eventually make some two hand pinch training implement. Its easy to judge, quick, a fair width and is the same for everyone. It also looks similar to the axle but just for pinch. Make it a full deadlift just like the axle.

My thing with the euro is

1. Its time consuming for contest, my biggest complaint haha.

2. You are not giving everyone the same width so someone strong at wide pinch but weaker at narrow could pick a wide width which is stronger then someone elses say narrow pinch which they are better at. You have weight classes to take hand size out of the question and its never going to be perfect. Pick a somewhat decent width which I think the saxon bar does and everyone just deadlift that.

3. They also do vary from person to person more then I think a universal bar would

Edited November 19, 2013 by Stephen Ruby

[kodyburns]

I'd love to see Ironmind make a standardized 2 hand pinch implement. Say like a 2inch Saxon Pinch Bar. I think guys that are strong on the axle would have incredible carry over from the 2 inch standard of that already. Plus Ironmind already makes many 2 inch training tools that would only enhance the effects of multi dimensional 2 inch training exercises. 2 Inch Wrist Roller, 2 Inch Axle Bar, 2 Inch Leverage Bar, 2 Inch Dexterity Balls, etc, etc. Everything Ironmind makes seems to catch like wildfire in the gripworld anyway. This would prove the same no doubt.

IMO, I see both good for business. People will always like to watch the big boys play no matter what. That won't change.

On the flipside, the euro puts every man in the game no matter what size of a man he is, which evens the playing field and gives normal size guys like me room to dream big and maximize our full hand size strength potential.

If Randall comes up with a standardized pinch tool, you would still want to train on the euro because it's what would produce the gains by having the ability to change widths to train both under and over the potential standard width. I like the idea and think it's a win win situation for Randall, Strongman, Olympians, Strength Athletes, and Grip Sport.

[Mike Sharkey]

I'd love to see Ironmind make a standardized 2 hand pinch implement. Say like a 2inch Saxon Pinch Bar. I think guys that are strong on the axle would have incredible carry over from the 2 inch standard of that already. Plus Ironmind already makes many 2 inch training tools that would only enhance the effects of multi dimensional 2 inch training exercises. 2 Inch Wrist Roller, 2 Inch Axle Bar, 2 Inch Leverage Bar, 2 Inch Dexterity Balls, etc, etc. Everything Ironmind makes seems to catch like wildfire in the gripworld anyway. This would prove the same no doubt.

IMO, I see both good for business. People will always like to watch the big boys play no matter what. That won't change.

On the flipside, the euro puts every man in the game no matter what size of a man he is, which evens the playing field and gives normal size guys like me room to dream big and maximize our full hand size strength potential.

If Randall comes up with a standardized pinch tool, you would still want to train on the euro because it's what would produce the gains by having the ability to change widths to train both under and over the potential standard width. I like the idea and think it's a win win situation for Randall, Strongman, Olympians, Strength Athletes, and Grip Sport.

that seems like a really smart idea. I'm new to pinch training, but my understanding is most people pinch between 50 and 60mm. is this correct? meaning a 2" device is going to probably be around the median width (51mm or so). 3", which is 76mm is going to be pretty wide for an accurate statistical sampling of the natural human ability. i think this is the same reason that a 1" bar is standard for OLY lifting, rather than something thicker. though you will have outliers like mutlu, most people can hook a 1" bar and most people can pinch at 2". I'd definitely purchase a 2" saxon bar from IM!!!

as far as watching the big boys play, I totally agree with that statement. people want to see Mark McGuire hit home runs. however, as one's understanding of a discipline increases, you can actually enjoy more and more seeing the application in lighter categories. for instance, when I started watching OLY lifting, all I wanted to see was the 105+ category and only the C & J, probably because it was simply the most weight on the bar. as I watched hour upon hour though, I started to develop an appreciation for the snatch and for the lighter categories. the grace and technique Lu required to snatch 176kg at 77kg BW is astounding. more so than Danielyan doing 215kg at like 170kg. i think we might ask ourselves are we trying to propagate a sport that simply has "crowd appeal" and what that entails. Ilya Ilin is an absolute rockstar and OLy lifting is not exactly the fastest or most accessible sport. personally, I prefer the refined discipline of weightlifting to the brute size and strength of strongman. grip is interesting to me because yes, size and strength definitely have a place and are an asset, but its a small enough motor group that will even the playing field, even across weight classes - i.e. unlike weightlifting, you will see absolute world records come from places other than the heaviest weight class.

Edited November 20, 2013 by Mike Sharkey

[kodyburns]

I'd love to see Ironmind make a standardized 2 hand pinch implement. Say like a 2inch Saxon Pinch Bar. I think guys that are strong on the axle would have incredible carry over from the 2 inch standard of that already. Plus Ironmind already makes many 2 inch training tools that would only enhance the effects of multi dimensional 2 inch training exercises. 2 Inch Wrist Roller, 2 Inch Axle Bar, 2 Inch Leverage Bar, 2 Inch Dexterity Balls, etc, etc. Everything Ironmind makes seems to catch like wildfire in the gripworld anyway. This would prove the same no doubt.

IMO, I see both good for business. People will always like to watch the big boys play no matter what. That won't change.

On the flipside, the euro puts every man in the game no matter what size of a man he is, which evens the playing field and gives normal size guys like me room to dream big and maximize our full hand size strength potential.

If Randall comes up with a standardized pinch tool, you would still want to train on the euro because it's what would produce the gains by having the ability to change widths to train both under and over the potential standard width. I like the idea and think it's a win win situation for Randall, Strongman, Olympians, Strength Athletes, and Grip Sport.

that seems like a really smart idea. I'm new to pinch training, but my understanding is most people pinch between 50 and 60mm. is this correct? meaning a 2" device is going to probably be around the median width (51mm or so). 3", which is 76mm is going to be pretty wide for an accurate statistical sampling of the natural human ability. i think this is the same reason that a 1" bar is standard for OLY lifting, rather than something thicker. though you will have outliers like mutlu, most people can hook a 1" bar and most people can pinch at 2". I'd definitely purchase a 2" saxon bar from IM!!!

as far as watching the big boys play, I totally agree with that statement. people want to see Mark McGuire hit home runs. however, as one's understanding of a discipline increases, you can actually enjoy more and more seeing the application in lighter categories. for instance, when I started watching OLY lifting, all I wanted to see was the 105+ category and only the C & J, probably because it was simply the most weight on the bar. as I watched hour upon hour though, I started to develop an appreciation for the snatch and for the lighter categories. the grace and technique Lu required to snatch 176kg at 77kg BW is astounding. more so than Danielyan doing 215kg at like 170kg. i think we might ask ourselves are we trying to propagate a sport that simply has "crowd appeal" and what that entails. Ilya Ilin is an absolute rockstar and OLy lifting is not exactly the fastest or most accessible sport. personally, I prefer the refined discipline of weightlifting to the brute size and strength of strongman. grip is interesting to me because yes, size and strength definitely have a place and are an asset, but its a small enough motor group that will even the playing field, even across weight classes - i.e. unlike weightlifting, you will see absolute world records come from places other than the heaviest weight class.

100% Agree Mike

[Randall Strossen]

My fellow grip guys, yesterday I was tipped off that my comments on this thread have not rocketed me to Most Popular status on the GB, and because that was crushing to hear, I would urge all of us to put aside petty partisan politics* and to focus on our common passion for pinching (as well as crushing).

On the former, I recall that when Grip Sport stalwart Daniel R. competed in one of Odd Haugen’s recent grip contests (Viking Vise Grip 2012 at the LA FitExpo), he was very well received by the crowd and not the least of the reasons why was because of his performance on the pinch grip medley. And since no implement in said medley was adjustable, the only thing mid-sized Daniel brought to the battle was a pair of thumbs that were strong as well as opposable—just like everyone else.

Looking something like David, Daniel did more than pretty well against the Goliaths in the field . . . the only person who beat him was a guy named Mike Burke.

*Actually, I don't really see any petty partisan politics here, but it sounded like a good phrase to include in this post.

[EricMilfeld]

I like the idea of the saxon bar more then the euro pinch personally for a few reasons

Sorinex makes a good one but ironmind could make something similar. I would like to see they eventually make some two hand pinch training implement. Its easy to judge, quick, a fair width and is the same for everyone. It also looks similar to the axle but just for pinch. Make it a full deadlift just like the axle.

My thing with the euro is

1. Its time consuming for contest, my biggest complaint haha.

2. You are not giving everyone the same width so someone strong at wide pinch but weaker at narrow could pick a wide width which is stronger then someone elses say narrow pinch which they are better at. You have weight classes to take hand size out of the question and its never going to be perfect. Pick a somewhat decent width which I think the saxon bar does and everyone just deadlift that.

3. They also do vary from person to person more then I think a universal bar would

Over the years, I've come to agree with using a universal width for contesting pinch. I think the Saxon bar is ideal.

[climber511]

My fellow grip guys, yesterday I was tipped off that my comments on this thread have not rocketed me to Most Popular status on the GB, and because that was crushing to hear, I would urge all of us to put aside petty partisan politics* and to focus on our common passion for pinching (as well as crushing).

On the former, I recall that when Grip Sport stalwart Daniel R. competed in one of Odd Haugen’s recent grip contests (Viking Vise Grip 2012 at the LA FitExpo), he was very well received by the crowd and not the least of the reasons why was because of his performance on the pinch grip medley. And since no implement in said medley was adjustable, the only thing mid-sized Daniel brought to the battle was a pair of thumbs that were strong as well as opposable—just like everyone else.

Looking something like David, Daniel did more than pretty well against the Goliaths in the field . . . the only person who beat him was a guy named Mike Burke.

*Actually, I don't really see any petty partisan politics here, but it sounded like a good phrase to include in this post.

Randall - I think it's been a pretty good thread so so as to fairness. Sure those of us who have been doing grip sport for a while like the adjustable Euro but fixed width can be OK also and there has been and is ongoing discussions about the subject among several promoters. My feelings are there can be room for both. I'm actually doing some experiments right now on this idea and will have a "prototype" device jury rigged up in a week or two - in time for a try out at my Gripmas Carol contest anyway. I am using 2" x 6" 11 gauge rectangular tubing for this.

Of course those of us who already own one can use a Euro and just one width but the Euro is a very expensive piece of equipment no matter how one acquires one. Going forward alternatives can be made much much cheaper if certain realities in steel sizes are looked at.

Requirements (my thoughts anyway)

• It must be readily available at the retail level for a reasonable cost. A large established retailer (or more than one) would be best of course so it could be available worldwide.
• The base weight should be light enough for even the smallest women’s classes
• If one size is to be used the thickness must accommodate all hand sizes from big to small. The available choices in standard steel sizes do offer some limitations here. It could also be possible to use more than one thickness and have different records I suppose within the limits of the standard sizes that steel comes in. Custom sizes might become a cost issue.
• However it is made – loading must be quick and easy. The dimensions, materials etc should be standardized for use all over the world and so any manufacturer can duplicate it. It must be large enough that no matter how long one’s hands are – they cannot get their fingertips over the bottom edge. The surface should be something reproducible for all – bare steel perhaps or a coating of an appropriate manufacturing type.
• It should be designed with a positive judging system in mind much like what is used with the Euro in mind to avoid any judging issues. This should be easy to do.
• Within practical limits it should be hard to “tilt”. Devices like the Saxon Bar may not be the best choice for a test of pure pinching ability and would be somewhat awkward for one hand lifts..

I'll post some pictures when I get this done. I'm sure a better product can be made professionally but maybe my idea can act as starting point.

[rico300zx]

Ive got 2 different saxon bars in my gallery, olympic and standard. I designed them long enough to do clean and presses as well as snatch as well if you wanted to. I think it's a great piece of equipment and 2x4 is best though as far as center of gravity goes when you would want to do other movements in addition to pinching.

[climber511]

The Sorinex Saxon bar is 3" x 4" (I couldn't find another sized commercial bar with a quick Google) - too big for a one size fits all contest setting in my opinion and allows a huge tilt if your wrists are strong. A 2" x 6" (2" x 4" allows large hands to go over the bottom lip) size would "possibly" work better - it would certainly fits a woman's or small man's hands better. I don't know if a 2 1/2" x 6" size steel is available or not - my supplier does not have it and a quick Google does not show it. I don't know how much tilt it would allow without actually trying one. The "tilt" issue is something I feel needs addressed - it should be as pure a "pinch" test as possible - resembling a 2 - 45s pinch more than a Blob lift if that makes sense.. Look at all the comments around Blob lifts done with tilt - we should try to avoid it as an issue.

[acorn]

My own custom Saxon Bar is based on 2" x 5" Tubing. I'm very happy with it. At 5" its too long to wrap fingers yet still doable for oly cleans and snatches. I think 6" would be good for DL but too long to safely Oly lift with it based on personal experience. 5" is right on the edge of what I would consider safe for myself on these.

Those are my thoughts on this anyway. I think we will likely run a 2" Saxon Bar DL at the next AZ comp.

- Aaron

[rico300zx]

Chris, I don't believe that the 2x4 has the issue you say. I have some of the biggest hands here on the board and I don't feel in any way that I'm wrapping around the device when two hands pinching or clean and pressing, however I don't try to cheat the lift either. What i feel it does though is brings the Centre of gravity closer to your palms which feels more natural than somewhere mid finger .

Rico

[climber511]

Chris, I don't believe that the 2x4 has the issue you say. I have some of the biggest hands here on the board and I don't feel in any way that I'm wrapping around the device when two hands pinching or clean and pressing, however I don't try to cheat the lift either. What i feel it does though is brings the Centre of gravity closer to your palms which feels more natural than somewhere mid finger .

Rico

A 2x4 block was used at Thanksgripping - 3 people very obviously had this very issue - so I guess we will have to disagree here. Parris it may be the way you place your hand - Jedd had a very hard time not putting his fingertip over the edge and his tips were well beyond the edge - we're not talking about a clean and press where your grip may be different but the two and one hand pinch lift more closely associated with a Euro lift where perhaps you grab more deeply. .

[Hubgeezer]

I have some of the biggest hands here on the board and I don't feel in any way that I'm wrapping around the device when two hands pinching or clean and pressing, however I don't try to cheat the lift either. .

Rico

I never paid much attention to your hands before. In your photo, the "spread" does look a bit freaky for the more modest-sized hands themselves. What is the spread of your hands, and what is the length? I am guessing 8 length and 10 1/2 spread, but am just guessing...

[rico300zx]

Chris, I don't believe that the 2x4 has the issue you say. I have some of the biggest hands here on the board and I don't feel in any way that I'm wrapping around the device when two hands pinching or clean and pressing, however I don't try to cheat the lift either. What i feel it does though is brings the Centre of gravity closer to your palms which feels more natural than somewhere mid finger .

Rico

A 2x4 block was used at Thanksgripping - 3 people very obviously had this very issue - so I guess we will have to disagree here. Parris it may be the way you place your hand - Jedd had a very hard time not putting his fingertip over the edge and his tips were well beyond the edge - we're not talking about a clean and press where your grip may be different but the two and one hand pinch lift more closely associated with a Euro lift where perhaps you grab more deeply. .

An actual 2x4 like u buy at home depot thats no prob I can wrap to the first knuckle on all my fingers but on the 2x4 steel saxxon bar I cant even get the knuckle of the middle finger to go around it, maybe it's the rounded edge that takes up space and it can't bite in as hard.

I never paid much attention to your hands before. In your photo, the "spread" does look a bit freaky for the more modest-sized hands themselves. What is the spread of your hands, and what is the length? I am guessing 8 length and 10 1/2 spread, but am just guessing...

Your close 10 1/4 by 8

[climber511]

I currently have

A Euro device - which you are all familiar with

Climber Pinch - my own design that many of you have lifted in my Medleys - it's a 2" x 6" 11 gauge piece of steel tubing with a 1" nut welded to the bottom center - it's a two hand version but works well for one also - there is a 10" bolt that hangs vertically that is the loading pin. It allows almost no tilt and is the strictest setup I have. Weight is around 25# less than on a Euro for me.

I have a 2" x 4" steel block attached to a sling to a loading pin - this is a one hand lift - the sling allows a huge amount of tilt and adds at least 10 to 15# to a one hand lift over a Euro - I cannot reach around the bottom of it but I'm quite sure Jedd, Justin Kaye and Malcom Majesky can - even my hand comes close.

I have a 2 1/2" x 5" steel block (2 pieces of 2 1/2" square welded together that attaches to a loading pin with a carabiner) - a one hand lift - the carabiner allows some tilt but the taller setup cuts a lot of the tilt out

I have a 3" square steel block that attaches to a loading pin with a carabiner - a one hand lift that is too wide for comfort for me but still can be tilted easily - I also have a two hand version of this - I cannot reach the bottom.

I have tried wood blocks long ago but they were unsatisfactory.

I have a 3" x 4" Saxon bar also - it's possible to get a very large tilt on it. A guy with very strong wrists can hold that tilt throughout the lift to great advantage. It is a fair lift but not a very good test of "just" pinching ability.

I also have several thin pinch blocks of 3/8" etc size in one and two hand versions

I have played around with this whole idea quite a bit over the last several years.

My conclusion is that the height of the block, the placement of the weight in relation to the hands, and the rigidness of the system makes for a more pure "pinch" test and not as much tilt is possible. Steel measurements are unlike wood and are actual size. My favorite is the Euro regardless of width used - perhaps because I have used it so much more and have taught myself to use my own strengths to better results. I do like the rounded edges of the tubular steel stock and use it a lot in training when my skin gets sore.

[Wade Gillingham]

For what it's worth the one and only time I maxed on a brand new (slippery) SORINEX Saxon bar I pulled as much as I was doing at the time on my two hand pinch "euro-like" device and the surface was not as good on the Saxon bar because it was new. I did 251 1/2. So to me small adjustments on the euro device is not necessary (but doesn't bother me either). If I had one I would set it as wide as it goes.

Wade

[Clay Edgin]

I don't know, guys, rather than saying what the contest *should* have maybe we should look at some of the positive things here:

• One of the biggest stages around to promote grip sport at the LA Fit Expo, hosted by the Godfather of Grip Himself Odd
• A few THOUSAND dollars in cash money for winning. Has there ever been a purse so large for grip contests? And how many women have ever been paid for grip contests?

Having MC'ed this contest the last couple of years, the crowd will get excited about the visual aspect of different things. When Durniat lifted double bodyweight on the axle, the crowd went almost as nuts as when Burke broke the WR. Daniel R was very well received because he was the physical underdog vs guys like Burke and Felix. When Jon Ecklund smoked almost everyone on the fishing pole wrist roller, they went nuts. In between events, we let down the barricades and invite the crowd to try everything so they can really get an appreciation for it. This doesn't happen at most contests I think.

In any event, I'll be there trying to put up some personal records, announcing the strongman contest, and doing the mas wrestling. Anyone in the area should come by and say hi.

[Eric Roussin]

I'm really looking forward to taking part in this event!

[18Wheeler]

I'm really looking forward to this event. I've actually been thinking about competing. I know the biggest names will be there, so I was wondering how appropriate would it be to make this my first grip contest? Or is it more for those who are already established?

Does anyone who has been involved with this event have any thoughts on this? Any of you other unknown guys going to compete?

[Hubgeezer]

I have assisted with the scoring on all three contests to date, and have never competed. Have competed at both San Jose/Santa Clara contests, but it is a notch lower. I have seen strong but not Elite guys compete, and I have seen "strongmen" get humbled when a modestly built grip guy outdoes them on something.

The way it is this year, I think each event stands on its own. I am thinking about competing in just "one" event, the Vise Grip Viking Fishing Pole. The reason? I don't see something like that normally, so I want to see if I can do it all the way. It will be extremely difficult to do, and I realize I might not get it in front of an audience. Do I care? No.

That being said, I think one ought to be able to pull 200 on the Rolling Thunder or 350 on the Axle if he was a heavyweight. Not sure what the opening numbers will be. Haugen, even when he is pretty accommodating, tends to start the numbers high. Part of it is to keep the thing moving, and part of it is that I am not sure he can relate to those who are not real strong. In Santa Clara, he was kind enough to let the three weak guys (me included in there) to open with 140 kg on the Axle. From there it went to 160. No go on that one for the 3 of us. Rolling Thunder opened at 180 something lbs. Hope that helps.

Edit: I have seen guys go in there as their first contest. I always have said the only requirement is having the guts to step on the platform. In LA, so far, I have not, but with this new format...

Edited December 23, 2013 by Hubgeezer

[Guest Squat More]

I have always found it hilarious that in grip the only people who say hand size doesn't matter are the 6'4" and taller, 280lb and heavier Goliath with 8 1/4"+ long hands or people who don't train/compete in it at all.

[andurniat]

I won't be in attendence for the FitExpo this year. See you all at the Arnold. Too much going on with 2 businesses to run.

[Hubgeezer]

Too bad, Andrew, you are one of the few who is a graduate of all three so far! Will miss you.