JakeNS Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 What's everyone's training program for this years King Kong Grip Comp? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Sharkey Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 I'll say this, I have found a 6 week cycle for peaking the hub to be my approach. After that I top out and get exhausted and need more than a month off. My approach is to work with lots of different hubs and an insert that I made for the IM hub that reduces the available surface by half. I do mostly sub-maximal holds for time. When you go to the real IM hub you will feel like your hand has a huge area for contact. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JakeNS Posted July 27, 2014 Author Share Posted July 27, 2014 Thanks a lot for the tips bro!! Sounds like a great idea. I'll make that for my hub and try it out! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Sharkey Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 Thanks a lot for the tips bro!! Sounds like a great idea. I'll make that for my hub and try it out! Good luck. I just used 5 pieces of cardboard and cut circles. Daniel actually made it out of a block of wood. His is better, mine's adjustable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fhaak3 Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 What are the events at the King Kong? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico300zx Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 An insert, interesting.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Ruby Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 What are the events at the King Kong? http://www.gripboard.com/index.php?showtopic=42533 I haven't started the training for it but I would definitely focus on the technique aspect of the one hand axle lift. Its a little tricky to balance the bar right to get a good lockout. I would do one day for pinch and another for open hand strength rather then both together. Enjoy it though that contest is really low key and was free I believe and the events allowed for a very quick contest which is always nice. Is this going to be your log for the event? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 Dieting, Dieting and more dieting. I'm trying to get back down to the 93kg class. Other than that attacking thickbar like crazy, thats been my biggest weakness for too long now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strongmanpharmd Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 Agreed on working one-hand axle DL technique...I scratched 2 lifts at a USAWA postal meet for not having the barbell even at lockout. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JakeNS Posted July 28, 2014 Author Share Posted July 28, 2014 Thanks for all the tips and advice.. I can't afford a a good axle like the IM Apollo but i just purchased a black iron pipe 7ft long with an outside diameter about 1.90 inches so hopefully this will get me started. Plus doing these one-handle axle DL will help me down the road with the Inch dumbbell I got from Kody Burns. Typo--- one-handed** DL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvance Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 Anything axle or thickbar related will build your long term foundation for elite grip strength. Don't get caught up too much in pet movements like hub or grippers. A lot of guys get real good at this stuff but can't pull their weight on the big boy events like pinch and axle. Remember the meat and potatoes!! Do the tough and non-glamorous work today and the fad lifts will be easy in the future. Get after that inch, if you can lift that thing you are truly strong - no matter what your hubbing and what gripper you're shutting! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Sharkey Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 Don't get caught up too much in pet movements like hub or grippers. Do you have an example of someone with a really big gripper number who doesn't also have a good axle? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvance Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 Matter of fact yes, myself. When I was slamming my 163 elite and 1.5" block setting my 3 back in 2012, my axle was under 300, comparatively low, my pinch was also around 170 - and that was with world class mentoring and tweaking with Chris Rice and Kody Burns. Nowadays I am only good for a 150 gripper with a 20mm block but my pinch is around 210 and axle is projecting to be near 370-380. So I would venture to guess my overall hand strength is much higher despite sucking at grippers... Totally not here to call people out and I know there is endless love for grippers and all those certs.... But narrowly focused grip work like them or hub do little to help with the big boy pulls. Trust me I've done the numbers and there is a pattern. Who do think has a stronger hand; a guy crushing 180-190 grippers with a 330 axle and 180 pinch (insert most any gripper legend)? Or a guy who closes 160s with a 260-270 pinch (Kody), or perhaps the guy who is around 150 on a gripper but can lift 430ish on an axle or 40 pounds over his BW on RT (Roussin)? Your question should answer itself, a really big gripper number will get you a decent to good axle. Does a great axle get you a huge gripper number? Strengthen the whole arm and the hand beyond just crushing and one will dominate the axle. Case and point; Durniat 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Sharkey Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 (edited) Who do think has a stronger hand; a guy crushing 180-190 grippers with a 330 axle and 180 pinch (insert most any gripper legend)? Or a guy who closes 160s with a 260-270 pinch (Kody), or perhaps the guy who is around 150 on a gripper but can lift 430ish on an axle or 40 pounds over his BW on RT (Roussin)? I guess it depends on how you look at it. Based on my experience this weekend, I recognize Grip not just as a strength endeavor, but actually as a sport. These are not the same thing. I had a friend who defined a sport as a limited set of movements, and I see to this be true whether you are talking about Grip, Powerlifting or Soccer. Its a set of contested movements. So I guess it comes down to whether you are training to be successful in the sport or just strong for your own purposes. The "strongest" person at this weeks NY Throwdown was without a doubt Carl Donati. I doubt Eric Roussin has a 600# DL or can destory a 3/4" HRS long bar. For the sport however, he was tops. Personally, my observation is that people that are truly elite in Gript, e.g., Jedd, Adam, Andrew, the people I watched that got me interested in it, are strong on all implements. Yes they have particular strengths that stand out, but they're really only competing with each other. I don't really know if this is because they are just beastly strong, or because they approach it as an actual competitive endeavor. If you just want to have strong hands, you can probably do it with just grippers, just axle or even just some block weights. If you want to do well in competition, I would think it wise to attack all avenues of potential victory. As for big boy lifts, I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, but axle is incredibly hand size dependent. More than any other implement. Euro is obviously self equalizing and 20mm grippers are level for people as well. Further, the chest strength it takes to set grippers over 150# is pretty intense. I will pull 500# easily on an oly bar in 3 or 4 ranges of motion before my axle breaks 300#. It's not from a lack of playing with it. So what is the line for big boys? I've seen a couple incredible dudes, including Daniel Reinard, have axles around 350 or so (maybe a little more I have to check), that have just pure sick hand strength in other areas. There was even that dude Grip Monsta Pee Pee that hand insane pinch. 2 x 45's in both hands. Just toying with the Euro out of the box. Pretty mediocre axle. I'd definitely take his hand strength, however he might not do amazingly well in competition. I would also say Grip, in its infancy, really hasn't seen the delineation of what is truly world class yet. Edited July 29, 2014 by Mike Sharkey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Electron Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 Jon Vance raises an excellent point. Pinch and axle are really the bread and butter of grip. Not only as a sport (they represent bigger percentages in the total) but also in real world applicability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Sharkey Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 in real world applicability. Can you elaborate on what you believe to be the real world applications? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Electron Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 This horse has been beaten til dead and buried. I won't dig up the horse just to beat it some more, but if you like beating it... um, that would be your support grip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Sharkey Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 This horse has been beaten til dead and buried. I won't dig up the horse just to beat it some more, but if you like beating it... um, that would be your support grip. Lol fair enough. Practice over theory I would say. I would also say that the gentleman's original question was about training for King Kong. A contest with almost 15 venues around the world that has for 2 years now generated tremendous interest and excitement. One might draw some inference about the future of the sport from this information. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Electron Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 I would say practice and theory. Stick around for a bit and you should know. To stay on topic, training the core lifts is a thing of importance. Luckily I've also done specific training for all the events at KK, so only have to brush up on technique. Very excited to have Matt Cannon as an arch-nemesis to push each other to total one handed elite. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvance Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 Who do think has a stronger hand; a guy crushing 180-190 grippers with a 330 axle and 180 pinch (insert most any gripper legend)? Or a guy who closes 160s with a 260-270 pinch (Kody), or perhaps the guy who is around 150 on a gripper but can lift 430ish on an axle or 40 pounds over his BW on RT (Roussin)? I guess it depends on how you look at it. Based on my experience this weekend, I recognize Grip not just as a strength endeavor, but actually as a sport. These are not the same thing. I had a friend who defined a sport as a limited set of movements, and I see to this be true whether you are talking about Grip, Powerlifting or Soccer. Its a set of contested movements. So I guess it comes down to whether you are training to be successful in the sport or just strong for your own purposes. The "strongest" person at this weeks NY Throwdown was without a doubt Carl Donati. I doubt Eric Roussin has a 600# DL or can destory a 3/4" HRS long bar. For the sport however, he was tops. Personally, my observation is that people that are truly elite in Gript, e.g., Jedd, Adam, Andrew, the people I watched that got me interested in it, are strong on all implements. Yes they have particular strengths that stand out, but they're really only competing with each other. I don't really know if this is because they are just beastly strong, or because they approach it as an actual competitive endeavor. If you just want to have strong hands, you can probably do it with just grippers, just axle or even just some block weights. If you want to do well in competition, I would think it wise to attack all avenues of potential victory. As for big boy lifts, I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, but axle is incredibly hand size dependent. More than any other implement. Euro is obviously self equalizing and 20mm grippers are level for people as well. Further, the chest strength it takes to set grippers over 150# is pretty intense. I will pull 500# easily on an oly bar in 3 or 4 ranges of motion before my axle breaks 300#. It's not from a lack of playing with it. So what is the line for big boys? I've seen a couple incredible dudes, including Daniel Reinard, have axles around 350 or so (maybe a little more I have to check), that have just pure sick hand strength in other areas. There was even that dude Grip Monsta Pee Pee that hand insane pinch. 2 x 45's in both hands. Just toying with the Euro out of the box. Pretty mediocre axle. I'd definitely take his hand strength, however he might not do amazingly well in competition. I would also say Grip, in its infancy, really hasn't seen the delineation of what is truly world class yet. All good points... however you had to bring up hand size... and i disagree... If your hand is big enough to touch your thumb to your middle finger then having a bigger hand on the axle will probably not give you any more advantage. Again, I bring up myself as an example: On an IM axle which is a true 2" i can touch my thumb to middle or ring fingers when i wrap the bar.... now on my 1.9 OD axle i touch my thumb on and over my middle fingernail (a tangible difference). However, of the two different sized axles my best lifts are the same and i would argue the IM bar feels better in the hand. Hell, even my fat grips max is within 10 pounds of my 1.9 OD axle, and with the FGs i cannot quite touch thumb to fingers.. If your hands are big enough to overlap, it just makes wrapping the bar awkward and gives no tangible advantage. I believe this to be true also with the inch dumbbell, the challenge of all these events is having the forearm power to stop rotation in its tracks; whether its an axle or or something fatter.. Now if you can't touch fingers to thumb on either of these axles you may be set back just a hair but I 100% believe hand size deficiencies on thickbar can be overcome by brute forearm and wrist strength. If your wrists and forearms are weak the bar will roll out of your hand. It will roll out of a big hand just as fast as a small hand. If your hands are not tiny (as in under 7") then building a 300-350 axle should be absolutely possible... but the wrists and forearms HAVE to be very strong. IMO hand size really only comes into play significantly with blobs. If you have less than a big hand spread you will undoubtedly have to work harder to generate the needed friction to get it off the ground Sorry to hijack this thread but i hate when hand size keeps getting brought up as a handicap on thickbar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FJM Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 (edited) If your hands are not tiny (as in under 7") then building a 300-350 axle should be absolutely possible... but the wrists and forearms HAVE to be very strong. It was my secret plan to make my wrists and forearms stronger to be able to lift more in king kong . Now everybody knows it. Edited July 29, 2014 by FJM 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvance Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 If your hands are not tiny (as in under 7") then building a 300-350 axle should be absolutely possible... but the wrists and forearms HAVE to be very strong. It was my secret plan to make my wrists and forearms stronger to be able to lift more in king kong . Now everybody knows it. sorry to let people in on your little secret i honestly think there is something to this and you think you're a funny guy to make me sound like captain Obvious... but i think a lot of people out there are focusing on hands hands hands and not realizing that squeezing power can only be harnessed by supporting power 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Sharkey Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 (edited) Now if you can't touch fingers to thumb on either of these axles you may be set back just a hair but I 100% believe hand size deficiencies on thickbar can be overcome by brute forearm and wrist strength. If your wrists and forearms are weak the bar will roll out of your hand. It will roll out of a big hand just as fast as a small hand. If your hands are not tiny (as in under 7") then building a 300-350 axle should be absolutely possible... but the wrists and forearms HAVE to be very strong. Excellent. I appreciate you sharing your experience. Building a strong axle DL has always been my goal. Honestly I was not trying to use hand size as an excuse. As I said I got into this watching Adam destroy the axle and I always knew his hands weren't exceptionally large. I agree 100% that you work with what you have and based on what you mentioned about hands touching, I should be fine Personally though I have found the axle the hardest thing to gain on and it wasn't until I actually started working holds with the Bosco bell that I started to see some progress. David Mitti, who had a very strong axle right out of the box, has had to work very hard to lift the Baby Inch, despite being close to the 1H axle record in his category, and holds have played a large part in his progress -just taking a moment to say there is something said for time under tension in a lot of grip lifts being quite short for making progress, and that hand size might not affect a 2" bar, but the RT size bells it may come more into play (again not saying it as an excuse, I fully expect to see him lift the full Inch and Adam throws that thing around like a toy - so the bottom line is like you say, you just need to be stronger) Again, his original question was how to train for King Kong, and I offered my experience on hub training (something I was naturally decent at - and something mechanically I believe to have at least a little correlation to 1HP), so I'm not sure how we got to the discussion of not wasting time training grippers. Are you saying that working too much grippers inhibited your axle? Or that somehow the movements are exclusionary? Grippers aren't even an event at King Kong. Edited July 29, 2014 by Mike Sharkey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FJM Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 If your hands are not tiny (as in under 7") then building a 300-350 axle should be absolutely possible... but the wrists and forearms HAVE to be very strong. It was my secret plan to make my wrists and forearms stronger to be able to lift more in king kong . Now everybody knows it. sorry to let people in on your little secret i honestly think there is something to this and you think you're a funny guy to make me sound like captain Obvious... but i think a lot of people out there are focusing on hands hands hands and not realizing that squeezing power can only be harnessed by supporting power Ok, that was too complicated joke for a written form. Apology if i ruined your point. I really think that you have point here. Personally i have found wrist curls great way to train for thumbless deadlifts and one-arm deadlifts and my theory is that it works for axle also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strongmanpharmd Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 What would everyone say is a good 1 hand axle number? I'm new to grip and am not sure what numbers are "good" for guys who train grip exclusively. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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