Andrew P Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 I'm going to try hard not to let my frustration come through here but I'm at my whit's end on this topic. How can someone be complient with the rules for the Kong Kong and still pull with the Door Knob? Show me, I've been told it can be done but no one's ever proved it. IronMind Hub: King Kong Rules Only the Hub is to be grasped. To keep this lift within the spirit of the Hub Lift (proper ‘claw’ style), only the fingertips of the thumb, index and middle fingers are to grasp the Hub. The ring and pinkie finger may or may not be in contact with the hub, this is at the discretion of the athlete. The thumb, index and middle fingertips must start in contact with the rim of the hub. The fingertips are the distal phalanges. The other two fingers may oppose, or not be on at all. These are the fingers that grasp slightly slanted. The devise will need to start level and once left the ground as level as possible (within 20 degrees of horizontal), excessive tilting will not be allowed. In the spirit of claw lifting no part of the palm or thumb pad of the hand should come in contact with the hub. The device must be lifted to lock-out, which will be demonstrated by complete extension and a finished lift. Part of this is showing control at the top—that's what will trigger the referee's down signal. Athletes must await the referee’s down signal before returning the device back to the platform all the while maintaining the grip/contact with hub. The free hand may NOT be used to brace against the opposing leg. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MANNA Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 "In the spirit of claw lifting no part of the palm or thumb pad of the hand should come in contact with the hub." Some people who use more of a doorknob/vbar lift set up by allowing the thumb pad, thumb webbing or palm to make contact. When the lift happens everything straightens out for the most part. My question is, are you allowed to make contact with the thumb pad or palm during setup? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Roussin Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 The problem is that IronMind's hub rules are a bit lacking in clarity. I interpret doorknob style to mean v-bar style, which wouldn't be possible to do under the King Kong rules. But maybe "doorknob style" means something different to IronMind. To be honest, I doubt IronMind has considered all of the possible lifting variations that have been discussed on the GripBoard. I say John's visit should be sent to Randall, and then he can decide. It may prompt the development of a clearer rule set. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John McCarter Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 I working on a video that explains what I'm doing in terms of hub lifting and what I did at King Kong. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jad Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Maybe John McCarter can post a vid because it's pretty easy once you see him do it. It's the not the obnoxious vbar grip and certainly doesn't add anywhere near the advantage but it's not the IM claw grip either. I can't get my thumb on there the way he does and still be within the rules. To Manna's point, John's grip looks quite different once he starts to apply force. Luke Wicks closely scrutinized his hand position before every attempt and I was watching as well (although not in the official capacity for John) and he was within the King Kong rules. My question would be why not just use the IM rules if the idea is to eliminate door knob? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MANNA Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 "Thumb must be kept straight" would make any weird/questionable lift impossible in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Roussin Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 I feel the King Kong rules are clearer than the IronMind rules. Specifically, I think rule #4 leaves room for interpretation. King Kong did not require all fingertips to touch the plate, while IronMind does. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John McCarter Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Here is the video detailing what I do. Also, here is a video of where I learned to model this style of hub lifting. http://youtu.be/lK58H203G0Q?list=UUzHI0hNhz4EuTfbrK9ILpdQ I do not know how to hub the tool any other way. I know there is a style considered for David Horne's Hub, but I have chosen to stay away from that information. While the topic of the hub lifting styles were talked about in a video by both Andrew P and Juha of what was allowed and not. I could not lift the hub any way, I even attempted it after watching the videos and nothing worked for me. I followed what was asked of me, if there was anything wrong with my lifting of the Ironmind hub at King Kong, I expected Luke Wicks to have stopped me on the spot and count it as a "no lift". I talked to Luke before the contest started and showed him how I was going to lift. Again, if there was any fault in my lifting than I would not have performed it in any way/shape/form the way I did. Everything looked legal to him and I was allowed to use the style I performed with. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jad Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 I feel the King Kong rules are clearer than the IronMind rules. Specifically, I think rule #4 leaves room for interpretation. King Kong did not require all fingertips to touch the plate, while IronMind does. Exactly. The KK rules were different than IM, right or wrong, stricter or looser, they are different. I was as excited as anybody for John to break the record and thought it was a monsterous lift but I wasn't under the impression at any time that he did it under the IM rules so I guess I'm confused on all the backlash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted October 28, 2014 Author Share Posted October 28, 2014 (edited) I working on a video that explains what I'm doing in terms of hub lifting and what I did at King Kong. Thank you. That clears it up for me. Your hub strength is super strong. Edited October 28, 2014 by Andrew P 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Roussin Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 ^Ditto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Scibelli Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 But will John's lift count for the NAGS hub record? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jad Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 But will John's lift count for the NAGS hub record? This was the record I thought he was going for in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted October 28, 2014 Author Share Posted October 28, 2014 But will John's lift count for the NAGS hub record? Yes, we had the King Kong rules sanctioned before the contest. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Scibelli Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 But will John's lift count for the NAGS hub record? This was the record I thought he was going for in the first place. I guess I was confused because the event in Finland was for the King Kong and he got the IM record but John didn't? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buccos1 Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 That's cool putting up that video John ... Definitely cool to see your approach. I have always done the traditional "claw grip" but am going to begin to experiment with different finger placements. I tried to angle my thumb a little earlier in the year, but it just didn't feel right when it got heavy. Congrats on some huge numbers lately! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king crusher Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 I have a hub but have only used it 3 times. I guess I use the doorknob style? I use my thumb index and middle finger but I use the inside length of my ring finger pressed horizontally against the side of the hub. Is this illegal? It's the natural way I grabbed it when I bought it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Roussin Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 ^This is within the King Kong rules, but not the IronMind rules. I also use this style. This is not the same thing as doorknob style. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted October 29, 2014 Author Share Posted October 29, 2014 When it's all said and done, Ari and John are both exceptionally talented athletes and they have both raised the bar to a new level. My frustration comes from my impression that we are more worried about how rules are interpreted than congratulating both guys on what they accomplished. Just my 2 cents on the topic. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvance Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 (edited) so was John's WR lift sent to IM and not found to be acceptable? If so, was the application of the KK rules the reason? I think he said somewhere he'd be going off IM rules for his WR attempts... hmm i am a bit confused Edited October 29, 2014 by jvance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king crusher Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 ^This is within the King Kong rules, but not the IronMind rules. I also use this style. This is not the same thing as doorknob style.Thanks for clearing that up for me. What is doorknob style then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John McCarter Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 so was John's WR lift sent to IM and not found to be acceptable? If so, was the application of the KK rules the reason? I think he said somewhere he'd be going off IM rules for his WR attempts... hmm i am a bit confused I don't think they knew about my attempt at the time. I have gotten in contact with IM and will be receiving a message tomorrow about my hub lift. Yes I went off their rules while training for King Kong. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr milk Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 I think it is OK to tell that even I told IM (via e-mail) that John has pulled more than me in that contest when I asked how long it takes to review these lifs. (Monday) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucasraymond Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 I just want to say congrats to both Ari and John as they both have amazing hub strength and their overall performance in the KK 2014. Overall the whole discussion and how everything goes down on the GB is the reason I have not been on. Instead of congratulating the men/women for their achievements there is always people that try to bring down the excitement of being the person that succeeds at breaking a WR. Nothing is ever in questioned until a record is broken then people come out of the wood work to discredit the lift (not everyone). This is the impression I got when I broke the sledge choke WR and has left a terrible taste in my mouth which is part of the reason of my separation from grip sport. I plan on resuming my training in the near future but definitely needed a break from all the drama. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slazbob Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 I just want to say congrats to both Ari and John as they both have amazing hub strength and their overall performance in the KK 2014. Overall the whole discussion and how everything goes down on the GB is the reason I have not been on. Instead of congratulating the men/women for their achievements there is always people that try to bring down the excitement of being the person that succeeds at breaking a WR. Nothing is ever in questioned until a record is broken then people come out of the wood work to discredit the lift (not everyone). This is the impression I got when I broke the sledge choke WR and has left a terrible taste in my mouth which is part of the reason of my separation from grip sport. I plan on resuming my training in the near future but definitely needed a break from all the drama. Stick with getting stronger, Luke... Don't let stuff affect your training. Some, like to speak up...I myself will speak when things don't seem right. I can't always let things be for the sake of staying on track. Records are nice to strive for, but you find out it brings out the friendly, and the few ...that think you stole something from them. It's just being competitive... or maybe, some have an excuse to get things straight with the rules or question they have been wondering about and a record gives them the opportunity to speak up. I think that's good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.