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International King Kong Grip Challenge - October 19th 2013


Eric Roussin

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I saw on the grip sport page lucy horne did 16 lbs on the one hand dl euro so they must have used a smaller pipe for that maybe ask david horne what he did. I'm pretty sure any female could do about 15lbs for the one hand pinch 40 or definitely 60lbs would be pushing it.

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Perhaps the recommendation should be for promoters to try to find an alternative pipe to allow lower weights to accommodate the competitors that are expected to attend their venue. If the competitor cannot lift the base weight with one hand, the maximum weight lifted with two hands will count.

Because the two hands versus one hand lifts would mess up the percentage-based scoring system (German Scoring), maybe the Reverse Strongman Scoring should be used instead. This way two-handed lifts could not earn more points that one handed lifts. Here's an example:

Lifter A: 100 lbs (one hand)

Lifter B: 80 lbs (one hand)

Lifter C: 60 lbs (one hand)

Lifter D: 85 lbs (two hands)

Lifter E: 75 lbs (two hands)

Lifter A would be awarded 1 point

Lifter B would be awarded 2 points

Lifter C would be awarded 3 points

Lifter D would be awarded 4 points

Lifter E would be awarded 5 points

What do everyone think?

Regardless of this one hand/two hands issue, which system do you generally prefer?

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The only concern I would have would be if strongman scoring was allowed in NAGS contests. Currently I think NAGS is only set up for % based?

I'll try to have my GF pinch one handed on my Euro. If she, at 5'2" ~120#, can one hand 40# then I'd assume most adult females could. And again, I come back to maybe just having them go 2HP and maybe we divide their score in half so it could still function for % based one hand contests? I don't know how taboo it is to go 2HP and take half for a score to keep things fair for the women in a one handed contest. I don't see rules against it nor is it too far off a realistic one hand lift score. The two hand pinch advantage really doesn't kick in until much bigger lifts are had. Certainly at an ~80# 2HP lift there is negligable difference from a 1HP of half that.

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The IGC approves reverse strongman scoring as an option. I know the World's Strongest Hands results are included in the top 50 lists on the site, so I assume it's okay. But I will check.

I'm fine with competitors who aren't able to lift the Euro device with one hand to use two hands, and then the amount could be divided by two. But if this works out to more than the minimum weight, the amount should be reduced so that it is not higher. For example, if the base weight is 40 lbs and the competitor can't lift it with one hand, but then lifts 100 lbs using two hands, they shouldn't get credit for a 50-lb one hand lift. I think for scoring the amount should be reduced to a max of 40, and maybe even a pound less (39). What does everyone think?

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The IGC approves reverse strongman scoring as an option. I know the World's Strongest Hands results are included in the top 50 lists on the site, so I assume it's okay. But I will check.

I'm fine with competitors who aren't able to lift the Euro device with one hand to use two hands, and then the amount could be divided by two. But if this works out to more than the minimum weight, the amount should be reduced so that it is not higher. For example, if the base weight is 40 lbs and the competitor can't lift it with one hand, but then lifts 100 lbs using two hands, they shouldn't get credit for a 50-lb one hand lift. I think for scoring the amount should be reduced to a max of 40, and maybe even a pound less (39). What does everyone think?

Good point. Well if strongman scoring is an option then that solves the problem if the women's classes are 2HP. I recommend people to go to a pipe on their device if they're currently running a solid bar. That will be tough for a lot of people to use one handed. A pipe is only $10 at most hardware stores.

CA people, here is a Facebook events page for our venue.

https://www.facebook.com/events/153990144790372/

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My vote is for Strongman scoring If it's good with the IGC. So I'm in the process of replacing my steel heavy gauge pipe with and schedule 40 aluminum pipe and replacing the rubber inserts with PVC sheets. I think that will shave about 5 to 8 lbs off my system. I'm currently using the heavy York spinlock collars to hold the plates and spacers in place but they weigh around 10 pounds. Is there a lighter collar that would work to hold the plates tight?

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I have the cheap Amazon spin locks that weigh 2.5kg. Caution, they are practically pot metal. Good ol' China workmanship.

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it will be cool to see little big horn contested. will it be a good lift as far as IM is concerned? I don't know what they require.

Thank you for asking about this: IronMind would do a quick review and our policy is that if the lift was performed according to the rules, it will be recognized as a record.

The Ironmind rules for the Little Big Horn aren't very clear:

http://www.thefitexpo.com/TFESJ_grip.asp

I'm hoping that the lifts from the King Kong contest will be tracked on the gripsport.org top 50 lists, so we should arrive at a consensus. What do people think? Should full lock-out be required, or should it be similar to a v-bar lift (2 inches)? I'd like to have the IGC's endorsement of the method that is chosen.

Please let me know what's unclear and we can try to get that sorted—I think the format (lack thereof) didn't help things in that particular case, but the basic idea is pretty simple: you're doing a deadlift with a Little Big Horn. IronMind will clean these up and we'll also get a Rules & Records page posted to make things easier for everyone.

Here's what the page says:

Little Big Horn Anvil Lift

"The athletes will each attempt to dead lift the IronMind Little Big Horn device and loading pin increasing with each attempt till there is ONE MAN STANDING. Time starts when pin is loaded and athlete’s name called, and athlete has 30 seconds to commence the lift. No grip aids other than chalk allowed. Athletes must grip the Little Big Horn as you would grip the horn of an anvil. Athletes must await referee’s down signal before returning the device back to the platform all the while maintaining the grip/contact with horn. The anticipated schedule of weights will be (subject to Referee’s judgment): TBD Each athlete must select an opening weight prior to the commencement of the competition, and may “pass” on subsequent weights as long as he does so prior to his turn. World and American Record is 220lb set by Adam Glass on 7/15/2012 in San Jose, California."

I added some of the results from the GripTopz Championship to the gripsport site, so I'll be able to do the same for this event. Aaron has done an awesome job developing the database!

By the way, is there a central spot where people can ask the IGC questions? If not, a sticky thread on the gripboard may help. Or, is there a listing of the contact information for all of the IGC members?

Thank you for copying this—please see my comment above.

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One of the things that caught my eye here was the one-hand Apollon's Axle deadlift—and it was for exactly the reason some guys mentioned . . . maybe by eliminating events with the big-number weights, the contest might seem more grip-friendly to some guys: A 500-lb. deadlift doesn't sound huge to a powerlifter, there are a lot of guys who lift weights who would struggle to do this and with the 2-hand Apollon's Axle world record above the quarter ton mark and headed higher, some grip guys might not want to enter:

http://www.ironmind.com/ironmind/opencms/Main/Apollons_Axle.html

One hand, though, is going to change this, so I think this event was a great idea and I will be interested to see the results.

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Randall - my comment about the rules for the LBH "not being very clear" had to do with the lack of details regarding what exactly the referee needs to see before giving a down signal. Does the device need to be lifted to full lock-out? If so, what is defined as a full lock-out? I have a pretty good idea of what a good lift looks like when I see one, but I was just wondering if there are explicit guidelines. Thanks.

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My Euro setup consists of

Steel Pipe - I have a 30" and a 36"

2 Steel Plates

Various rubber plates or plastic plates (not much difference)

2 of the big old Olympic spin lock type collars (these weigh 5K or 11#)

Two small collars to hold the plates on.

Thoughts are

Trade out the steel pipe for alum or even 1 1/2" PVC (cheaper)

Trade out the 5K collars for something smaller to keep the plates tight - a spacer of 2" PVC pipe - small plates etc can be used if you add plates to keep adequate finger room.

Should save an easy 15# if not more if your setup is like this.

Getting close to 40# now at thinner widths - try this and see - then if you think it will work then bring it to Jedd or I and the Group can go over it for legality within the rule structure. .

I'm having the one hand pinch at Gripmas and will have to deal with the same issue - be nice to have it all ironed out ahead of time for the ladies

Edited by climber511
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Randall - my comment about the rules for the LBH "not being very clear" had to do with the lack of details regarding what exactly the referee needs to see before giving a down signal. Does the device need to be lifted to full lock-out? If so, what is defined as a full lock-out? I have a pretty good idea of what a good lift looks like when I see one, but I was just wondering if there are explicit guidelines. Thanks.

Eric -

Thanks much.

Our starting point is an IPF-style deadlift, but we recognize that, for example, on a heavy Rolling Thunder, you can't (at least not easily) throw your shoulders back the way you can on even a really big deadlift, so your question is spot on: we look for a complete extension and a finished lift, and part of that is showing control at the top—that's what will trigger the referee's down signal. We would not pass (or recognize) an incomplete, up & down lift that got dropped as soon as it hit whatever high point it reached, for example.

Hope that helps—glad you asked about this.

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Thoughts are

Trade out the steel pipe for alum or even 1 1/2" PVC (cheaper)

Trade out the 5K collars for something smaller to keep the plates tight - a spacer of 2" PVC pipe - small plates etc can be used if you add plates to keep adequate finger room.

Should save an easy 15# if not more if your setup is like this.

Getting close to 40# now at thinner widths - try this and see - then if you think it will work then bring it to Jedd or I and the Group can go over it for legality within the rule structure. .

Thanks for the ideas. I'll make the modifications this week and get back to you with how to works.

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I used a PVC pipe with my Euro device and it dropped the empty weight down to 40 lbs. I'm satisfied with this base weight for the one-handed comp.

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I have two euro pinch apparatus with rubber plates. Those empty weights are 55.11lbs and 88.2lbs. Women can also use this lighter with 1hp

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Did we decide on if we can pull one hand axle between the legs or if it must be help out in front? I have some people asking how to train and i'll also be holding a little pre comp training session at the gym to give people ways to train up for the contest.

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Sorry, I've been meaning to check with Adam to see which rules he used, but haven't done so yet. I'll try to get in touch with him tonight.

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Changed out the steel pipe and removed the spinlock collars for PVC this weekend bringing the setup to ~40lbs at 50mm. Thanks, everyone for your advice and input.

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So these are the rules that Adam used at his comp last year:

"One hand axle DL. The one hand axle lift is can be done from either a conventional, sumo, or straddle deadlifting stance. The grip is overhand with no hooking of the thumb on the bar. The bar will be lifted to a point at or above the athletes knee caps. A pause is not required, the bar must pass the knees and can be lowered from that point. The athlete is allowed to brace their free hand against their leg during the attempt.

"

These are the rules that David Horne has listed on his site:

"The bar may either be raised in front of the lifter, or the lifter may straddle the bar. Hook gripping is not permitted. The free hand may be used to brace against the opposing leg. Foot spacing is optional, but may not change once the lift begins. Heels and toes may rise. The bar must be raised to a point where both ends of the bar are pulled to a height of mid knees or above and the legs must be straightened. The shoulders do not have to be pulled erect, nor the body straight as long as the legs are straight and the bar motionless with both ends above the knee joint. The lift ends with the referee's signal, and then you must lower the weight under control."

My personal preference is a hybrid of the two -- Adam's rules plus the requirement of both ends of the axle to be at or above the lifter's kneecaps at the same time, plus the weight must not be dropped.

Which rules does everyone prefer for the King Kong contest?

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Here is a video I saw of adam glass doing the lift a few years ago

That looks good to me-the right hand attempt at least the left was not full lift- I tried this lift once at the gym and holding near the top it starts to tilt pretty quickly for w/e reason so doing to above the knee would probably help that. I think part of the challenge is keeping it from tilting so I like that idea of both ends being above the knee.

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My personal preference is a hybrid of the two -- Adam's rules plus the requirement of both ends of the axle to be at or above the lifter's kneecaps at the same time, plus the weight must not be dropped.

I dig this idea.

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My personal preference is a hybrid of the two -- Adam's rules plus the requirement of both ends of the axle to be at or above the lifter's kneecaps at the same time, plus the weight must not be dropped.

I like.

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I like Adam's rules. Having done the lift many times, tilt does not seem to give any advantage. It's not at all like the feeling you get when you lift a DB by bracing against the back bell or plates and V-bar the weight up. In fact tilt seems to make the lift harder as you struggle to keep the bar from swaying. .As long as both ends of the bar are off the ground and the bar (lifter's hand) is above the knee is fine with me.

I would not be opposed to the axle being lifted a standardized height like in the Euro, GripTopz 1/2 Penny/Stub and Adjustable Thick Bar.

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