pdoire Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 I took the liberty to update this chart from the FAQ section with poundages based on the wire size differences. The following is a list I got from Warren Tettings showing the wire sizes used for the Beef Builder, MMG and Captains of Crush grippers. These poundages are based on the differences in the reported wire sizes using the IM grippers as a base. Remember that all grippers vary except for the actual MM cert grippers, these numbers are ESTIMATES of the actual poundages necessary! .225 BB Beginner………………………………………………................100 lbs .225 COC T …………………………………………………................ 100 lbs .235 COC #1 ………………………………………………….................140 lbs .235 BB Advanced ………………………………………………..............140 lbs .250 BB Super Advanced ………………………………………...........173 lbs .260 BB Master …………………………………………………................195 lbs .260 COC #2 …………………………………………………................195 lbs .275 BB Super Master……………………………………………............255 lbs .281 COC #3 ……………………………………………………..............280 lbs .281 BB Grand Master…………………………………………….............280 lbs .293 BB Elite ……………………………………………………..................306 lbs .295 spring, 1/4" mount, 2.75 width MMG1 *…………….…...315 lbs .295 spring, 3/16" mount, 2.75 width MMG2 *…………………..325 lbs .306 spring, 1/4" mount, 2.75 width MMG3 *……………………335 lbs .306 BB Super Elite and 2.75 width MMG4 *……………………346 lbs .312 COC #4 ……………………………………………………................365 lbs .312 BB Grand Elite………………………………………………...............365 lbs .331 BB World Class .345 BB Galaxy .362 BB Super Galaxy .375 BB Grand Galaxy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Styles Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 (edited) The PDA 243 fits between the BBSA and BBM The PDA 262 fits between the IM#2 and the BBSM I'm afraid I don't have access to a micrometer to get wire sizes. Edited December 20, 2004 by Scott Styles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Power Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 I thought these are the wiresizes: 243 262 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GarytheDino Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 I have to disagree that an Elite is easier than a MM1. Elite should be closer to a MM3. Even with the variences there is no way that 1/4" mount is equal to a 1/16 or 1/8 on the same spring. Even MM2 has a larger mount. My springs are the same size. Are replicas a diiferent spring from the real MM? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pdoire Posted December 20, 2004 Author Share Posted December 20, 2004 I have to disagree that an Elite is easier than a MM1. Elite should be closer to a MM3. Even with the variences there is no way that 1/4" mount is equal to a 1/16 or 1/8 on the same spring. Even MM2 has a larger mount. My springs are the same size. Are replicas a diiferent spring from the real MM? ← Gary I modified the chart in the FAQ section and am noticing that difference myself. The Elite should at least be put somewhere near the MM2, the problem with my calculation is there is no way to consider the spring mount so the MM grippers were stuck in there. The Elite based on many others posts here seems to belong somewhere between the MM2 and MM3...maybe a bit closer to the MM2. Should I revise this chart?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pdoire Posted December 20, 2004 Author Share Posted December 20, 2004 Here is the revised chart: These numbers are ESTIMATES of the actual poundages necessary! The #3 grippers here are the older ones, the 2004 ones have been tightened up quite a bit. .225 BB Beginner……………………………………………….......100 lbs .225 COC T ………………………………………………......…. 100 lbs .235 COC #1 …………………………………………………....... 140 lbs .235 BB Advanced ……………………………………………….....140 lbs .250 BB Super Advanced ………………………………………...173 lbs .260 BB Master …………………………………………………........195 lbs .260 COC #2 …………………………………………………........195 lbs .275 BB Super Master………………………………………....…….255 lbs .281 COC #3 ………………………………………………….......…280 lbs .281 BB Grand Master……………………………………………......280 lbs .295 spring, 1/4" mount, 2.75 width MMG1 *……………306 lbs .295 spring, 3/16" mount, 2.75 width MMG2 *…………….315 lbs .295 BB Elite …………………………………………………….............325 lbs .306 spring, 1/4" mount, 2.75 width MMG3 *………………335 lbs .306 BB Super Elite and 2.75 width MMG4 *………………346 lbs .312 COC #4 ………………………………………………….........…..365 lbs .312 BB Grand Elite………………………………………………..........365 lbs .331 BB World Class .345 BB Galaxy .362 BB Super Galaxy .375 BB Grand Galaxy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilkaz Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 Nice updates, Paul. I find it interesting that BB makes nothing between a .312 (4) and a .331 ! At this super high level of difficulty there must be a huge difference between the two. I've seen a formula someplace, but assuming the same spring depth and handle spread, and spring material, isn't gripper closing poundage related the the cube of the spring size ? ..neilkaz.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reubi Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 Hi Paul, I have additional info, maybe useful for you: coc#1 (2004) 0.243 This is a rather large deviation from your chart, my other coc-grippers have exactly the wire diameters as stated. The RB210, RB240 and RB260 grippers all have a wire diameter of 0.275, the harder ones have tighter coils. The RB260, though smaller wire size, is tougher than my coc#3 from 2004. Gerrit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tspinillo Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 I find it interesting that BB makes nothing between a .312 (4) and a .331 !At this super high level of difficulty there must be a huge difference between the two. ← Wouldn't the BB Pro fit in there? T Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Browne Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 I find it interesting that BB makes nothing between a .312 (4) and a .331 ! At this super high level of difficulty there must be a huge difference between the two. ← Wouldn't the BB Pro fit in there? T ← The wire size list I have from Warren lists the Pro at .331 and the WC listed at .345 ( March 2004) Those are the sizes I measured on my micrometer as well. This list I received, was before the Galaxies came on line. I do not know if the Galaxies changed the wire schemes or not Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GarytheDino Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 (edited) Hi Paul, I have additional info, maybe useful for you: coc#1 (2004) 0.243 This is a rather large deviation from your chart, my other coc-grippers have exactly the wire diameters as stated. The RB210, RB240 and RB260 grippers all have a wire diameter of 0.275, the harder ones have tighter coils. The RB260, though smaller wire size, is tougher than my coc#3 from 2004. Gerrit ← Gerrit, My Rb 260 feels about like the elite. I can't do anything with either. Both are way harder than #3. I agree. Paul, I hope I didn't come across as a butthole, but it just didn't add up. I agree with what you have posted now and think that's about as close as it can get with the variences. Great job, I'm really getting into gripper trivia if that's the right word but it's not trivial to me though And maybe a side note that on average the 2004 #3 is roughly equal to the real mash monster per earlier posts. Edit: beside MM4 you left out the mount which I believe was stated as being 3/16? Edited December 20, 2004 by GarytheDino Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pdoire Posted December 20, 2004 Author Share Posted December 20, 2004 Yes Gary, I took a poll a short while ago where the 2004 #3 was voted tougher than the MM1 cert gripper that is why I posted they have "tightened up". Without any wire size info that shows a different wire size it is hard to determine exactly where they would fit in the chart. Everyone else: Nothing above the #4 IM was calculated what you see listed is from the old post and was not touched in any way. Although that may be a worthwhile project to consider. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pdoire Posted December 20, 2004 Author Share Posted December 20, 2004 Yes Gary, I took a poll a short while ago where the 2004 #3 was voted tougher than the MM1 cert gripper that is why I posted they have "tightened up". Without any wire size info that shows a different wire size it is hard to determine exactly where they would fit in the chart. Everyone else: Nothing above the #4 IM was calculated what you see listed is from the old post and was not touched in any way. Although that may be a worthwhile project to consider. ← Additionally, because RB makes his grippers with tighter wound coils that do not relate to the relative wire sizes here ( no way to factor in "tighter coils") they are not included just as the HG's are not included. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GarytheDino Posted December 21, 2004 Share Posted December 21, 2004 Paul, I wonder if this chart could go a step further and include the rb's and hg's. Maybe a survey to see where the owner puts them, or course wire size doesn't matter on those. I can guess my Rb260 falls around elite somewhere. RB260N is just above SM. My older Hgs would be 200 super advanced 250 is between #2 and SM and 300 was average #3 but most said they were just below that and the new ones even less. Yeah it starts to get sloppy but maybe with a survey we can iron it all out. Gary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DLK Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 I would like to see it include the Hgs and the RBs too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Piche Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 .306 BB Super Elite and 2.75 width MMG4 This is not accurate saying it's a BB Super Elite because Warren may set the handles slightly deeper or higher on a stock Super Elite. The MMG4 has the requirement of 3/16". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pdoire Posted December 22, 2004 Author Share Posted December 22, 2004 .306 BB Super Elite and 2.75 width MMG4 This is not accurate saying it's a BB Super Elite because Warren may set the handles slightly deeper or higher on a stock Super Elite. The MMG4 has the requirement of 3/16". ← Ok, detail noted I will update the change...soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pdoire Posted December 23, 2004 Author Share Posted December 23, 2004 Newly updated list: The 2004 COC wire sizes have changed!! Tougher now!! .225 BB Beginner………………………………………………..100 lbs .225 COC T ………………………………………………….. 100 lbs .235 COC #1 ………………………………………………….. 140 lbs .235 BB Advanced ………………………………………………140 lbs .241 COC 2004 #1 …………………………………………153 lbs .250 BB Super Advanced ………………………………….173 lbs .260 BB Master …………………………………………………..195 lbs .260 COC #2 …………………………………………………...195 lbs .275 BB Super Master…………………………………………….265 lbs .281 COC #3 …………………………………………………..…280 lbs .281 BB Grand Master…………………………………………….280 lbs .295 spring, 1/4" mount, 2.75 width MMG1 *…….306 lbs .291 2004 COC #3…………………………………………………..312 lbs .295 spring, 3/16" mount, 2.75 width MMG2 *………315 lbs .295 BB Elite …………………………………………………….........325 lbs .306 spring, 1/4" mount, 2.75 width MMG3 *…………335 lbs .306 spring, 3/16” mount, 2.75 width MMG4 *…………345 lbs .306 BB Super Elite ……………………………………………..……350 lbs .312 COC #4 ……………………………………………………......365 lbs .312 BB Grand Elite……………………………………………...…..365 lbs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tspinillo Posted December 23, 2004 Share Posted December 23, 2004 Newly updated list:The 2004 COC wire sizes have changed!! Tougher now!! .291 2004 COC #3…………………………………………………..312 lbs ← This is a big jump from .281. Who has measured this? I have not seen this with mine using an el cheapo micrometer from Harbor Freight. T! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobsterone Posted December 23, 2004 Share Posted December 23, 2004 The coc 3 is .281 See the list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tspinillo Posted December 23, 2004 Share Posted December 23, 2004 The coc 3 is .281 See the list. ← Steve look at the list again. ".291 2004 COC #3…………………………………………………..312 lbs" T! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pdoire Posted December 23, 2004 Author Share Posted December 23, 2004 (edited) The coc 3 is .281 See the list. ← Steve look at the list again. ".291 2004 COC #3…………………………………………………..312 lbs" T! ← This measurement was obtained from a different board, someone received a new one and put mikes to it and responded with this new measurement. The 2004 #1 measurement was in fact from hear in this very post. I wonder if Strossen is raising the grippers across the board...looks like an increase in the #3 and #1. It would be great if those with these products and a mike or caliper can confirm these initial measurements!! Edited December 23, 2004 by pdoire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tspinillo Posted December 23, 2004 Share Posted December 23, 2004 I wonder if Strossen is raising the grippers across the board...looks like an increase in the #3 and #1.It would be great if those with these products and a mike or caliper can confirm these initial measurements!! ← Maybe fire an e-mail to DrS. Good idea, if someone can verify the measurements with a good caliper. T! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pdoire Posted December 23, 2004 Author Share Posted December 23, 2004 I wonder if Strossen is raising the grippers across the board...looks like an increase in the #3 and #1.It would be great if those with these products and a mike or caliper can confirm these initial measurements!! ← Maybe fire an e-mail to DrS. Good idea, if someone can verify the measurements with a good caliper. T! ← OldGuy just measured in the other thread ..came up with same spring size!! If this is true...why are they so much tougher?..according to my poll tougher than the MM1....wire mounting? different alloy??..why is the #1 also reported as having a higher wire size? What the heck is going on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GarytheDino Posted December 23, 2004 Share Posted December 23, 2004 That 291 is not even a standard size, or at least so far. It was probably typed wrong (291 instead of 281) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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