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One Arm Pull Up Training!


Electron

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I'm quite a way behind you guys in terms of strength, but i'll post any significant improvements that i make here. Currently i can perform a static hold with my right (dominant) arm at the top of the movement on a standard chin-up bar, but not on my bar at home (i use the top of a swing which is "2 thick). When i master that i'll post a vid, no weights for weighted chins at home, so i might experiment with a towel. I'll also try and up my reps/sets of frenchies. Anyone know how well muscle-ups contribute to lat strength for the OAC compared with normal or wide chins?

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Maybe we're ahead of you on the 1AC, but you've hit a flag (at 200lbs which some people don't think is possible), and closed the coc#3.

I'm still working on the flag... having trouble getting myself into a tucked flag position, but can do the clutch flag no problem.

Also joint mobility drills and GPP work have helped me tremendously. Since beginning both, I have only had minor aches that lasted for under a day like 3-4 times in over a year.

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Ive been training like this for 3 months and have only missed 3 days and those were due to not being home. I doubt that I have to take a lay off at any point. I'm "greasing the groove"... you can read about it below:

http://trainingdimen...%20Strength.pdf

I think that the current training program you're on will get you good at doing pull ups, not from you getting much stronger, but from the movement becoming more coordinated.

I don't think greasing the groove will translate towel PUs to 1APs, because the intensity is so different. It will help you get better with the motion, but will not help once you're able to do 20+ regular pulls.

I used to do 10 pulls every time I entered or exited my room, and totaled at around 200 a day, but it hasn't translated well to 1APs IMO

That being said, I do think your training program will help you until you can up the intensity, which will require a lot more strenuous training, but only about 2 times a week.

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patrickmeniru--I don't think muscleups would contribute very well to OAC strength, it's a different type of power imo, OAC is more of a slow grinding movement while muscleups are more of a speed/momentum exercise even without the kip.

Tentaclegrip, GTG programs definitely have an overall strength carryover, it isn't all coordination (though that's a big part of it). At one point I had a decent carryover to my one-arm dumbbell press from GTGing barbell presses, and I do the lifts very differently.

I think the high volume of b/w pullups I did over a 2+ year period definitely helped reinforce my elbows/shoulders/scapular area enough to get stronger at heavy chins and OAC, not much direct carryover but it'll help you progress faster on the specific work.

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The issue I tried to raise was more about whether or not the greasy workouts solely would be able to let you perform a 1AP.

It will definitely bring your strength up a little, but I don't think anybody would be able to do 1APs just from doing lots of pull up reps.

I believe 1AP requires more specialized and intense training.

Do GTG programs increase max by much anyways?

Edited by TentacleGrip
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Tentacle grip: according to pavel, there have been a few world champion russian powerlifters who's training has been gtg and had a powerrack set up in their kitchen.

Strength endurance will not increase max strength. I am 100% positive that this will not be for a while, but I plan to get 20reps on the 1AC with this training... although once I get the first one arm chin then training will have to be more directed towards strength endurance rather than maximal strength.

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Tentacle grip: according to pavel, there have been a few world champion russian powerlifters who's training has been gtg and had a powerrack set up in their kitchen.

I know it said that it the article you posted, but it doesn't sound like a practical or even plausible way to train max efforts unless your focus is in the maneuver.

I'm not sure if I'm disagreeing or if I don't understand, but it just doesn't sound like constant training will improve your 1AP that much.

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G2G training isn't done maximally its done submaximally... it starts out at maybe 85% 1RM then over time that percentage goes down.

Remember strength is motor learning... if you were going into surgery would you feel more comfortable with a surgeon that practiced everyday or once, or twice, a week.

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I know GTG is done at 60-85% max, but that's not a great percentage to build your one rep max (1AP).

Are you saying that it's done more for coordination and learning to execute something efficiently?

If I needed surgery, I will trust the surgeon who performs major surgeries two days a week over a surgeon who reads medical papers and books every day.

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The issue I tried to raise was more about whether or not the greasy workouts solely would be able to let you perform a 1AP.

It will definitely bring your strength up a little, but I don't think anybody would be able to do 1APs just from doing lots of pull up reps.

I believe 1AP requires more specialized and intense training.

Do GTG programs increase max by much anyways?

Yes and no. I am not sure whether the GTG towel pulls will give hellswindstaff an OAC, only time will tell. I know of a few people who have worked up to an OAC just by doing lots of pullups. You have to be able to do a ton, though (30+) and these guys aren't the norm as far as I can tell.

A GTG program can increase max strength, yes. Again, though it isn't a magic bullet though some people respond better than others to this sort of training... as with any training methodology.

Tentacle grip: according to pavel, there have been a few world champion russian powerlifters who's training has been gtg and had a powerrack set up in their kitchen.

Strength endurance will not increase max strength. I am 100% positive that this will not be for a while, but I plan to get 20reps on the 1AC with this training... although once I get the first one arm chin then training will have to be more directed towards strength endurance rather than maximal strength.

Pavel referred to Judd Biasiotto, (not Russian, but yes a world champ PLer and record holder). He trained a sort of GTG routine on some lifts, not others--something like 15x4 @ ~80% on the bench press, 3-5 times a week was his mainstay for several years when he first started out.

However, when he was setting world records I believe he was using a more conventional routine: bench twice a week, squat/dead once, basic linear cycling, one top set for each lift; really the same stuff everyone was doing for PLing at the time.

No champion PLer right now does GTG to my knowledge. Some olympic lifting teams do something similar, but they aren't hitting sets 'throughout the day'... usually they'll hit a top single and a few doubles with a lighter weight, the bulgarians for example go crazy on volume with those lighter sets (more like GTG) while the Russians and Chinese (the best teams right now) focus more on heavy strength-building movements, squat/dead/row/press/bench, so it's almost like a half powerlifting, half oly lifting routine.

As I mentioned above, at least a few individuals have gotten an OAC by doing 'strength endurance' training. It's certainly possible, when I hit 20 pullups for the first time I could do a chin +80, weighing 125, without working weighted chins. And different people have different fiber ratios so they respond different to different training methods, also, different limb lengths might make the difference between a 'max lift' and a 'repetition effort' more or less drastic, really there are a ton of variables at work here.

Maybe not... but I've certainly made progress in my 1RM in doing so :)

As have I. It certainly works, though not forever, it isn't a magic bullet or anything. Something you could experiment with is cycling GTG type stuff with more volume work, build up the muscles with density training then train specific skills with GTG to better apply your newfound bulk.

Bryce Lane wrote a lot about concepts like this, he had some cool stuff.

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patrickmeniru--I don't think muscleups would contribute very well to OAC strength, it's a different type of power imo, OAC is more of a slow grinding movement while muscleups are more of a speed/momentum exercise even without the kip.

Cheers for the advice, i'll keep working the muscle ups anyway but i'll try and work in more slow muscle ups with a false grip, (more of a slow grinding skill) i find that they stress my elbows quite a lot, so i guess that provided i manage the stress and am sensible then it will be good preparation for the OAC specific work, if not in terms of muscular strength, then in terms of elbow strength.

I was at the gym yesterday and did a quick check on how my strength is progressing, i managed a OAC on an assisted pull-up machine with 15kg and just missed 10kg. Not sure what that translates to in terms of the actual assistance (much more than 10/15kg i'm sure) but i guess i can use it to measure progress.

I'm weakest at the top of the movement (same for my weighted pull-ups) are there any exercises that you guys know of to work this part of the move? I'm guessing that it's more to do with biceps than the rest of the movement, and mine aren't that strong. Is it worth doing some isolated curls or are there better compound exercises that i can work with - i don't really like weights unless its dead-lift/squat/bench.

Edited by patrickmeniru
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Do you have any articles by Bryce Lane?? I'd enjoy reading them.

Here are a few. I'm a really big fan of his, he never really took off as a 'guru' because he wasn't into marketing hype and had some health issues, but he was brutally strong and very open minded. He's not really 'online' anymore.

http://www.ironsports.tv/3xpl.pdf

http://www.ironsports.tv/weaklink.htm

http://www.ironsports.tv/it_all.htm

http://www.ironsports.tv/juststrong.html

The extension is ironsports.tv, lots of articles there. He advised working in 3-4 cycles, iirc. One where you work on weak links, build muscle and increase volume, one where you drop volume and work on strength, and then a resetting phase with more conditioning and light power stuff. Just a few weeks on each, so you don't burn out on anything.

patrickmeniru--I don't think muscleups would contribute very well to OAC strength, it's a different type of power imo, OAC is more of a slow grinding movement while muscleups are more of a speed/momentum exercise even without the kip.

Cheers for the advice, i'll keep working the muscle ups anyway but i'll try and work in more slow muscle ups with a false grip, (more of a slow grinding skill) i find that they stress my elbows quite a lot, so i guess that provided i manage the stress and am sensible then it will be good preparation for the OAC specific work, if not in terms of muscular strength, then in terms of elbow strength.

I was at the gym yesterday and did a quick check on how my strength is progressing, i managed a OAC on an assisted pull-up machine with 15kg and just missed 10kg. Not sure what that translates to in terms of the actual assistance (much more than 10/15kg i'm sure) but i guess i can use it to measure progress.

I'm weakest at the top of the movement (same for my weighted pull-ups) are there any exercises that you guys know of to work this part of the move? I'm guessing that it's more to do with biceps than the rest of the movement, and mine aren't that strong. Is it worth doing some isolated curls or are there better compound exercises that i can work with - i don't really like weights unless its dead-lift/squat/bench.

Slow muscleups are good idea. I'm not sure if it'll prepare your elbow for the stress, though. The muscleup is kind of a ballistic stress, while the OAC is like a torquing kind of pressure... I did a decent amount of reverse curls, wrist curls, and band curls in the month before starting specific OAC work, those seemed to help.

I was also weak at the top, pausing at the top when I did weighted chins (to ensure I wasn't using momentum to get over the bar) and doing 2-3 sets of chinup holds at the top for 30-45 seconds fixed that pretty quickly.

I think heavy strict curls would definitely help especially if the biceps are your weak point, though if you have a weight belt weighted chins should take preference. Of course it's possible to work on both.

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Maybe not... but I've certainly made progress in my 1RM in doing so :)

Fair enough. Hope we both get this soon man, even if we're using different training methods.

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I can get fairly close to the bottom of the towel now and I see what you've been talking about by being at the end of the towel and not quite there yet for the 1AC.

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I just realized something. Supination and pronation of the wrist would probably help with the torque of the elbow. I'm imagining that if you're wrist supation and pronation are strong then you shouldn't have elbow problems on the 1AC/

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It might help a bit just by strengthening your elbow, but your objective isn't to go straight up and down without torque, since a degree of turning makes the move more efficient--most people seem to either start with a neutral grip and turn to supinated at the top, or start with supinated and twist into a neutral grip at the top--overhand pullups are a bit different but there's usually some rotation involved.

Just making the forearm flexors/extensors and the brachioradialis (an the rotators, too, that'd be good) as strong as possible should definitely minimize the pain and risk of injury, though.

Speaking of which, my elbows are hurting today for the first time after OAC work, managed 2 full singles with my right arm yesterday in addition to some other stuff.

Edited by demarcoa
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I mentioned that because of the way that the forearm muscles and tendons wrap around the elbow and it is the only way to strength the elbow in that manner. I'm fairly sure that Jedd Johnson has written and spoken about it numerous times for elbow health and strength.

My shoulders were feeling beaten up for the first time ever, because of the position that the flag put them in.

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Yeah it's a problem. I guess it won't matter at all if we become strong enough to forget about it.

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note: not the flag itself but i wasn't parallel to the ground and was doing it off of a big tree and some branches... definitely awkward.

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demarco... Have you ever done one overhand? If so how much less spin is involved... would you say overhand is more pure strength than underhand?

Good job on the singles man!!! I'm sure that you'll be repping it in no time.

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Yeah it's a problem. I guess it won't matter at all if we become strong enough to forget about it.

It's just a matter of getting used to it, I think... and having the other muscles strong enough that the little ones won't have to pick up so much slack.

I remember when I first tried to get the OAC about a year and a half ago, I could only do like 15 pullups. 2 sessions of towel chins gave me some pretty bad tendonitis and elbow strain. In retrospect, that was really stupid.

note: not the flag itself but i wasn't parallel to the ground and was doing it off of a big tree and some branches... definitely awkward.

I've done flags but very ugly and not for any real period of time. Those might be a summer goal for me if I can find a surface to practice on... didn't you post about the flag on the BWC and DD forum? How's that coming along?

demarco... Have you ever done one overhand? If so how much less spin is involved... would you say overhand is more pure strength than underhand?

Good job on the singles man!!! I'm sure that you'll be repping it in no time.

No I haven't.

I think it would be harder, but not much if you started overhand and twisted into a neutral grip at the top; but if you kept it overhand the whole time it would be much harder than the supinated/neutral thingy I can do now. It would be more brachioradialis and rear delt focused, for me anyway.

I suspect it would be like comparing a strict curl to a strict reverse curl, or a max chinup to a max pullup. The difference on the latter is about 15lb for me... so the difference on the OAC would be ~8lb, I'm guessing; so, definitely harder. When I can do reps of the 'normal' OAC I'll start working on a strict one arm pullup.

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Yeha I did. I held a flag with the lower half of my legs folded behind me for 10 seconds yesterday. It wasn't completely parallel because I was using a tree and a branch off of the tree. So that made it a little easier. However... it was definitely tough on my shoulders and in retrospect I probably wasn't locking my lats properly.

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