Geralt Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 Is anyone familiair with RGC done for the Vulcan V1, gold spring? I know only one, which was done by Matti Heiskanen. I was curious to see if there were more. Now, when copying this, I noticed the number behind it, don't know if this stands for number of springs. That said, I rediscovered the Vulcan. Seems to be a bit out of favour by the crowd. It's still a great tool. kilkkisen Vulcan Gold jousi ( 8 ) - Level 24 / 97.5kg / 215.23 lbs / rating = 4.10 - Level 23 / 92kg / 203.09 lbs / rating = 3.90 - Level 22 / 91kg / 200.88 lbs / rating = 3.86 - Level 21 / 85,5 kg / 188,75 lbs / rating = 3.66 - Level 20 / 81 kg / 178.80 lbs / rating = 3.49 - Level 19 / 80 kg / 176.6 lbs / rating = 3.45 - Level 18 / 75 kg / 165,56 lbs / rating = 3,26 - Level 17 / 71,5 kg / 157,83 lbs / rating = 3,13 - Level 16 / 71 kg / 156.73 lbs / rating = 3.11 - Level 15 / 65 kg / 143.5 lbs / rating = 2.84 - Level 14 / 58.5 kg / 129,13 lbs / rating = 2,48 - Level 13 / 58 kg / 128,03 lbs / rating = 2,45 - Level 12 / 55,0kg / 121,41 lbs / rating = 2,29 - Level 11 / 51,5 kg / 113,68 lbs / rating= 2,09 - Level 10 / 50,5 kg / 111,48 lbs / rating = 2,04 - Level 9 / 47 kg / 103,75 kg / rating = 1.76 - Level 8 / 43 kg / 94.92 lbs / rating = 1.46 - Level 7 / 41 kg / 90.50 lbs / rating = 1.27 - Level 6 / 37,5 kg /82,78 lbs / rating = 1.00 - Level 5 / / 34.5 kg / 76.16 lbs / rating = 0.71 - Level 4 / 34 kg / 75,1 lbs / rating = 0,64 - Level 3 / 31,5kg / 69,53lbs / rating= 0,43 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave murray Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 Is anyone familiair with RGC done for the Vulcan V1, gold spring? I know only one, which was done by Matti Heiskanen. I was curious to see if there were more. Now, when copying this, I noticed the number behind it, don't know if this stands for number of springs. That said, I rediscovered the Vulcan. Seems to be a bit out of favour by the crowd. It's still a great tool. kilkkisen Vulcan Gold jousi ( 8 ) - Level 24 / 97.5kg / 215.23 lbs / rating = 4.10 - Level 23 / 92kg / 203.09 lbs / rating = 3.90 - Level 22 / 91kg / 200.88 lbs / rating = 3.86 - Level 21 / 85,5 kg / 188,75 lbs / rating = 3.66 - Level 20 / 81 kg / 178.80 lbs / rating = 3.49 - Level 19 / 80 kg / 176.6 lbs / rating = 3.45 - Level 18 / 75 kg / 165,56 lbs / rating = 3,26 - Level 17 / 71,5 kg / 157,83 lbs / rating = 3,13 - Level 16 / 71 kg / 156.73 lbs / rating = 3.11 - Level 15 / 65 kg / 143.5 lbs / rating = 2.84 - Level 14 / 58.5 kg / 129,13 lbs / rating = 2,48 - Level 13 / 58 kg / 128,03 lbs / rating = 2,45 - Level 12 / 55,0kg / 121,41 lbs / rating = 2,29 - Level 11 / 51,5 kg / 113,68 lbs / rating= 2,09 - Level 10 / 50,5 kg / 111,48 lbs / rating = 2,04 - Level 9 / 47 kg / 103,75 kg / rating = 1.76 - Level 8 / 43 kg / 94.92 lbs / rating = 1.46 - Level 7 / 41 kg / 90.50 lbs / rating = 1.27 - Level 6 / 37,5 kg /82,78 lbs / rating = 1.00 - Level 5 / / 34.5 kg / 76.16 lbs / rating = 0.71 - Level 4 / 34 kg / 75,1 lbs / rating = 0,64 - Level 3 / 31,5kg / 69,53lbs / rating= 0,43 don't cop to these "levels" well Matti is the expert here. i am on my 3rd Vulcan now, about the 3rd spring. i think the springs weaken over time. no point in comparison to regular grippers. the spread is all different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geralt Posted May 24, 2015 Author Share Posted May 24, 2015 don't cop to these "levels" well Matti is the expert here. i am on my 3rd Vulcan now, about the 3rd spring. i think the springs weaken over time. no point in comparison to regular grippers. the spread is all different. I sent Matti a pm. I am familiair of course wth the difference between linear spring and tsg movement, but still think RGC is usuable for the Vulcan. It still gives a good indication about the closing pressure needed in the end, apart from the harder setting part. The same goes for TSG's. RGC doesn't measure sweep differences. Two grippers can have the same outcone in RGC but still feel different to each other. But still, it is a usuable reference point. Well, i only have one spring and indeed was wondering if these springs get weaker in time with regular use or that they just season and stay level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greppstark Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 I have never understood what the rating number stands for? The pound and kilograms i understand but not the rating.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTvG Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 I believe the springs are toughest fresh, but when used a few times, they weaken a tad, maybe a level or so. When not overstretched or abused in any other way, they should stay to that level then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grind Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 I have never understood what the rating number stands for? The pound and kilograms i understand but not the rating.. The rating is calculated to a CoC scale. The #3 is 150lb and the #3.5 is 180lb. So 165lb is a #3.25. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geralt Posted May 24, 2015 Author Share Posted May 24, 2015 True spoken my fellow Dutchmen. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greppstark Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 I have never understood what the rating number stands for? The pound and kilograms i understand but not the rating..The rating is calculated to a CoC scale. The #3 is 150lb and the #3.5 is 180lb. So 165lb is a #3.25. Thank you very much, now i understand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elmo Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 I have never understood what the rating number stands for? The pound and kilograms i understand but not the rating.. The rating is calculated to a CoC scale. The #3 is 150lb and the #3.5 is 180lb. So 165lb is a #3.25. Yes. But compared to Horne's estimations (in his Vulcan web page) those ratings are not meaningful at all. Matti has used them for TSGs and that's OK, even though nobody uses that kind of rating anymore. With Vulcan they should have been abandoned right away. For example Horne estimates Lv. 15 to be hardish CoC #3, but the RGC number translated to CoC scale is 2.2 (with a certain Crom spring). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshW Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 Most people who can mms a #3 probably got around level 15/16 on a black or gold spring at the same time. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geralt Posted May 24, 2015 Author Share Posted May 24, 2015 (edited) Ok, but the topic question still is whether or not other people than Matti have done Gold spring RGC for the V1. Rgc still remains a good reference to measure differences between several springs. I see the Vulcan as a trainingtool. Still one of the best IMO Edited May 24, 2015 by Geralt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Matney Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 I see the Vulcan as a trainingtool. Still one of the best IMO Completely agree. I go through periods where I use nothing but the Vulcan. Fantastic piece of equipment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave murray Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 I see the Vulcan as a trainingtool. Still one of the best IMO Completely agree. I go through periods where I use nothing but the Vulcan. Fantastic piece of equipment. i have to agree. i gave about 75 euro all in including postage and plastic charges. sounds expensive compared to a "normal" gripper, but will last for years. you can always get a new spring. it is good to know a rough estimate of the ratings on different levels, but some folk lose sleep thinking too much . as long as you keep improving, that is the main thing. regards, Daithi. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sensuixel Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 I've read that the spread of Vulcan's handle is almost 4", is it true ? Is the vulcan still suitable for small hands ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elmo Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 I've read that the spread of Vulcan's handle is almost 4", is it true ? Is the vulcan still suitable for small hands ? Vulcan V2 9cm/3.5in measured with my new digital caliper You have to learn to set it. Setting feels different than with torsion springs. No-set is impossible with all but very light levels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geralt Posted May 26, 2015 Author Share Posted May 26, 2015 It's all about strength my friends, never say it's impossible. Thnx for the input guys, I think there were no other springs rated, seeing the input. https://youtu.be/StpxtEyvlvc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elmo Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 (edited) It's all about strength my friends, never say it's impossible. Thnx for the input guys, I think there were no other springs rated, seeing the input. Sorry if I ruined someone's grip career by making them believe they can't do it I meant that it's impossible for small handed to close harder-relative-to-their-strength levels. It's relatively speaking more difficult than with TSGs and even with them no-set is more difficult than CCS which is more difficult than deep set. If you have small hands your fingers don't even go 90 degrees behind the handle with no-set. With harder levels it would be a bit like lifting 6 inch thickbar - too wide to be possible with heavy load. According to Horne the gold spring is "equivalent to" many other springs. What he does mean with "equivalent"? if it means "the same model but with different colour" you can just compare with those other springs. If you are registered in his forum you can ask there how exactly the springs are related. Edited May 27, 2015 by Elmo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geralt Posted May 27, 2015 Author Share Posted May 27, 2015 True about handsize, and you certainly didn't ruin my career in grip haha, BIll's vids were excellent regarding his Vulcan work. Sometimes people just seem to be wired up to a certain trainingtool or movement. That said, DH indeed has different springs, all which have their own characteristics, for instance Wasp is much harder than Gold and Red is lower than Gold. Hence, for about the same resistence level, the springs use different notch positions, so a lower placed Wasp can be as hard as a Gold spring placed a notch higher. So (just calling some number for example, since I don't know them by head), Gold spring notch 5-5 (level 15) feels the same as Red spring notch 5-6 (also level 15), so the blackspring is a bit lighter in resistence. thus, for the same level, every springsort uses different notch placement. This is what he meant with equivalent. But those are characteristics of the several spring sorts. I was looking for strength difference within the same springrange, in my case Gold spring. Just curious, nothing more. I'm a member of the DH forum, but there are no other guys over there who have rated Vulcan springs besides Matti, as far as I know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elmo Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 DH indeed has different springs, all which have their own characteristics, for instance Wasp is much harder than Gold and Red is lower than Gold. Hence, for about the same resistence level, the springs use different notch positions, so a lower placed Wasp can be as hard as a Gold spring placed a notch higher. So (just calling some number for example, since I don't know them by head), Gold spring notch 5-5 (level 15) feels the same as Red spring notch 5-6 (also level 15), so the blackspring is a bit lighter in resistence. thus, for the same level, every springsort uses different notch placement. This is what he meant with equivalent. I wouldn't have interpreted "equivalent" that way. Horne's documentation is a bit confusing. http://www.davidhorne-gripmaster.com/shop.html#vulcan says: -Number 4 batch produced March 2009, stamped 4 on the front handle, and with the company sticker affixed. Sold with red/black painted spring (a tougher red spring, about 2 levels - 10% stronger than previous red springs). -Number 6 batch produced July 2009, stamped 6 on the front handle, and with the company sticker affixed. Sold with black painted spring (a tougher spring, about 2 levels - 10% stronger than previous red springs). These springs are now manufactured by a new company. -Number 7 batch produced February 2010 [Gold springs April 2010], stamped 7 on the front handle, and with the company sticker affixed. Sold with Gold painted spring (a tougher spring, about 2 levels - 10% stronger than previous red springs). These springs are now manufactured by a new company. [The Gold spring is from a batch of 103 springs run off at the same time. These springs will be used at the 2010 W.O.G. World's Strongest Hands contests]. -Number 9a batch from October 2010, stamped 9 on the front handle, and with the new black company sticker affixed. Sold with the Wasp painted spring (a tougher spring, about one level stronger than the Gold, Black or Red/Black). These springs are now manufactured by a new company. Based on that I thought that Gold and Black are the same. Probably from a different batch. And http://www.davidhorne-gripmaster.com/vulcantraining.html says "Black with a lime green and red ends - the Joker spring. These are equivalent to the Gold, Black or Red/Black spring." Wasp, Crom and Red really are different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geralt Posted May 27, 2015 Author Share Posted May 27, 2015 DH indeed has different springs, all which have their own characteristics, for instance Wasp is much harder than Gold and Red is lower than Gold. Hence, for about the same resistence level, the springs use different notch positions, so a lower placed Wasp can be as hard as a Gold spring placed a notch higher. So (just calling some number for example, since I don't know them by head), Gold spring notch 5-5 (level 15) feels the same as Red spring notch 5-6 (also level 15), so the blackspring is a bit lighter in resistence. thus, for the same level, every springsort uses different notch placement. This is what he meant with equivalent.I wouldn't have interpreted "equivalent" that way. Horne's documentation is a bit confusing. http://www.davidhorne-gripmaster.com/shop.html#vulcan says:-Number 4 batch produced March 2009, stamped 4 on the front handle, and with the company sticker affixed. Sold with red/black painted spring (a tougher red spring, about 2 levels - 10% stronger than previous red springs). -Number 6 batch produced July 2009, stamped 6 on the front handle, and with the company sticker affixed. Sold with black painted spring (a tougher spring, about 2 levels - 10% stronger than previous red springs). These springs are now manufactured by a new company. -Number 7 batch produced February 2010 [Gold springs April 2010], stamped 7 on the front handle, and with the company sticker affixed. Sold with Gold painted spring (a tougher spring, about 2 levels - 10% stronger than previous red springs). These springs are now manufactured by a new company. [The Gold spring is from a batch of 103 springs run off at the same time. These springs will be used at the 2010 W.O.G. World's Strongest Hands contests]. -Number 9a batch from October 2010, stamped 9 on the front handle, and with the new black company sticker affixed. Sold with the Wasp painted spring (a tougher spring, about one level stronger than the Gold, Black or Red/Black). These springs are now manufactured by a new company. Based on that I thought that Gold and Black are the same. Probably from a different batch. And http://www.davidhorne-gripmaster.com/vulcantraining.html says "Black with a lime green and red ends - the Joker spring. These are equivalent to the Gold, Black or Red/Black spring." Wasp, Crom and Red really are different. Sorry, where I said black spring, I meant red spring. Yes, there are a lot of springs. But, the only thing that matters imo, is that the orange spring is the easiest spring by far, even on higher levels. The other ones are all good to work with. The Crom and wasp are a bit harder in the sweep I understood. But they are all hard on the higher levels. Like I said, only the notch positioning differs a bit for getting the same resistance. Give or take of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1stCoC Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 (edited) As Artee I agree any metal with close fitting parts be it a gripper or a tight new gun action has to be honed in a bit for repeat resistance a thousandth or two could add too much or less thanenough friction. A drop of oil or "normal "use usually flattens the curve. Years of normal use ( 24? )Has kept all my Silver crush pretty much what they were when I bought them. Rust will at first add to resistance but once oiled and used should reduce the spring rub tension adding to any deviation of intended resistance due to rust being a product of spring metal erosion.Grippers never seen , or tested by others but looking ok might have been subjected to spring weakening through molecular ( heat ) modification or over use ( vice , chest two hand shutting, stomping ) resulting spring metal fatigue. Edited June 15, 2015 by 1stCoC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.