hellswindstaff Posted May 14, 2013 Author Share Posted May 14, 2013 (edited) I agree - bringing up the weak links bring up just about any movement. Louis Simmons makes the same point. Although he also mentions that bar speed is also important. If the bar is moving fast enough, then there won't be a sticking point. Kenneth has a number of exercises targeted to address each of the various sticking points. All that said, I'm not interested in rapidly increasing my pressing strength, only because it takes time for the joints and connective tissues to get used to the loads. At least that's what I have experienced. There have been times when I have blasted forward, and the muscles were able to handle it, but the shoulder joint was not happy about it. Push press? I do a lot of connective tissue work and have been supporting weights in the bottom and top of the press positions. I can support over 315lbs in the bottom position, but a 100lbs dumbbell in the racked position still feels heavy... probably the unilateral vs bilateral load and the change of angle in the forearm. Just an fyi, from my training, if that's been something that you've been considering. I can do 100+ both arms. I'm not sure what my max is exactly. The biggest I have ever done strict is 100 but it was not a max. I have also done a 100 kettle bell strict for reps no problem. I don't consider any of this even close to world class or anything but if anyone was interested in a video I'll bring my camera to the gym shoulder day this week and upload whatever I get. Adam Glass is a board member who came to mind right away when I read this topic. I'm sure you've probably already seen his one arm pressing vids. a video sounds great! Somebody should experiment, but it's known that bent pressing a barbell is easier than bent pressing a dumbbell. Does this remain true for strict pressing? I don't know. Is it really easier to bent press a barbell than a dumbbell? I thought stabilizers would be going off like crazy with barbell. Edited May 14, 2013 by hellswindstaff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwwm Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 I agree with Wayne. I don't consider a 100# press world class (at least for +200# guys). One look at my physique pretty much confirms that it's not. I think the 106# kb press was a good marketing ploy, but I think there's a lot of folks with much greater potential. I'm also amazed at the guys like Paul McIlroy that can push press, side press, etc. a huge amount of weight relative to their bodyweight. Paul is crazy with some of his stuff. That's a good question about the barbell. I tried that almost 2 years ago, but haven't tried it since. Something to try this weekend I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 I agree with Wayne. I don't consider a 100# press world class (at least for +200# guys). One look at my physique pretty much confirms that it's not. Maybe not ''world class'' but definitely not average! Those were some strong presses there Groundskeeper Willy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwwm Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 Tommy, for someone who doesn't regularly train that movement - that is an incredible lift! That's like half your bodyweight?!?!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hellswindstaff Posted May 14, 2013 Author Share Posted May 14, 2013 for some reason, i thought id get atleast 100lb DB in semi strict fashion.. but as much trouble as i had with this 90lb DB today, it looks like im gonna have to put in some work to get 100 pounder. i tried this 90lb DB like 3 or 4 times today, and i either didnt get it without a slight leg drive, or couldnt get it at all.. then out of nowhere i got the 2 reps. crazy. anyways here is my lift of a 90lb DB. http://youtu.be/VE9bvsCxJEs While knees were locked and that is most definitely strong, the starting position was high... look at the position of the elbow joint at the beginning of the press. I agree with Wayne. I don't consider a 100# press world class (at least for +200# guys). One look at my physique pretty much confirms that it's not. I think the 106# kb press was a good marketing ploy, but I think there's a lot of folks with much greater potential. I'm also amazed at the guys like Paul McIlroy that can push press, side press, etc. a huge amount of weight relative to their bodyweight. Paul is crazy with some of his stuff. That's a good question about the barbell. I tried that almost 2 years ago, but haven't tried it since. Something to try this weekend I guess. Not world class... but stronger than most of the world :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico300zx Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 for some reason, i thought id get atleast 100lb DB in semi strict fashion.. but as much trouble as i had with this 90lb DB today, it looks like im gonna have to put in some work to get 100 pounder. i tried this 90lb DB like 3 or 4 times today, and i either didnt get it without a slight leg drive, or couldnt get it at all.. then out of nowhere i got the 2 reps. crazy. anyways here is my lift of a 90lb DB. http://youtu.be/VE9bvsCxJEs that garage looks familiar, reminds me of the one from Texas garage crew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mephistopholes Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 Nice one Tommy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shoggoth Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 I've done BUP's in the past with 90#. I tried an 88# Ader for a strict BUP on Sunday after the seminar/workshop but I couldn't press it out. Gassed by that point but I could clean it and hold it fairly easily. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 for some reason, i thought id get atleast 100lb DB in semi strict fashion.. but as much trouble as i had with this 90lb DB today, it looks like im gonna have to put in some work to get 100 pounder. i tried this 90lb DB like 3 or 4 times today, and i either didnt get it without a slight leg drive, or couldnt get it at all.. then out of nowhere i got the 2 reps. crazy. anyways here is my lift of a 90lb DB. http://youtu.be/VE9bvsCxJEs While knees were locked and that is most definitely strong, the starting position was high... look at the position of the elbow joint at the beginning of the press. When he removes his left hand from the weight the dumbbell is still touching his right shoulder. I don't understand how that isn't legit. Could you explain the starting position rules. Reason why I'm asking is I'm going to try this in a couple days. It's your thread so I'll go by your rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwwm Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 (edited) I don't have a horse in the race, but I know that the starting position of a dumbbell press has been a point of debate in the past for some - I was reading some of the controversy for the rule book around this lift on the http://www.usawa.com site last year. I think their rule book states that the handle has to start below the clavicle, and some were questioning the bio-mechanical soundness of such a start. I'm pretty sure I don't start with the handle below the clavicle. When I used to do behind the neck barbell presses, that would obviously force a much higher start & shorter range of motion. With the dumbbell, there's a few more possibilities for where one defines the start. Found the USAWA article I was referring to: http://www.usawa.com/the-10-worst-lifts-in-the-usawa/ Edited May 15, 2013 by bwwm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hellswindstaff Posted May 15, 2013 Author Share Posted May 15, 2013 (edited) for some reason, i thought id get atleast 100lb DB in semi strict fashion.. but as much trouble as i had with this 90lb DB today, it looks like im gonna have to put in some work to get 100 pounder. i tried this 90lb DB like 3 or 4 times today, and i either didnt get it without a slight leg drive, or couldnt get it at all.. then out of nowhere i got the 2 reps. crazy. anyways here is my lift of a 90lb DB. http://youtu.be/VE9bvsCxJEs While knees were locked and that is most definitely strong, the starting position was high... look at the position of the elbow joint at the beginning of the press. When he removes his left hand from the weight the dumbbell is still touching his right shoulder. I don't understand how that isn't legit. Could you explain the starting position rules. Reason why I'm asking is I'm going to try this in a couple days. It's your thread so I'll go by your rules. The upper arm should be sitting on the lat at the initial portion of the lift, the lift isn't complete until the elbow is fully locked out. No leg drive is acceptable. A slight lean is acceptable unless you have a monster sized bell that prevents you from keeping an upright torso, otherwise excessive lean is not permittable. Edited May 15, 2013 by hellswindstaff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 110 lefty and 120 righty. I did use a little leg drive just to lock out the 120 with my lefty off camera and even with leg drive my left just felt off today. Righty on the other hand I went 130 after 120 and missed but I really think I can get that with better planned attempts and more fresh. I did these lifts after heavy seated military press and worked up to 300 for a single. I might try it again next week fresh if I feel good. Did some reps with the 100 kettle bell after for the hell of it. That's the biggest kb we have. You can see my lefty actually looks better with the kettle bell which I think is because my righty was tired from doing too many singles. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedd Johnson Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 for some reason, i thought id get atleast 100lb DB in semi strict fashion.. but as much trouble as i had with this 90lb DB today, it looks like im gonna have to put in some work to get 100 pounder. i tried this 90lb DB like 3 or 4 times today, and i either didnt get it without a slight leg drive, or couldnt get it at all.. then out of nowhere i got the 2 reps. crazy. anyways here is my lift of a 90lb DB. http://youtu.be/VE9bvsCxJEsthat garage looks familiar, reminds me of the one from Texas garage crew Parris, Tommy trains with Eric Milfeld often... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedd Johnson Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 Wayne, that is some impressive stuff. Nice work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 Wayne, that is some impressive stuff. Nice work. Thanks. We all know you can smash 100+ are you gonna chime in with a vid? I remember watching a vid of you double pressing two 100's standing for reps if I'm not mistaken. 110 lefty and 120 righty. I did use a little leg drive just to lock out the 120 with my lefty off camera and even with leg drive my left just felt off today. Righty on the other hand I went 130 after 120 and missed but I really think I can get that with better planned attempts and more fresh. I did these lifts after heavy seated military press and worked up to 300 for a single. I might try it again next week fresh if I feel good. Did some reps with the 100 kettle bell after for the hell of it. That's the biggest kb we have. You can see my lefty actually looks better with the kettle bell which I think is because my righty was tired from doing too many singles. dayuum! Word. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwwm Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 That's some fine pressin' right there!!! Nice job Wayne!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mephistopholes Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 Yeah you made that look real easy dude! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricMilfeld Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 Yes, top notch pressin', Wayne! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 Thank you Willie, Zoidberg and Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lifesnotfair Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 Wayne, that was some very nice pressing. Also, the strictest video posted yet. There is a fine line between a Press and a "Bent Press" folks. If your torso has to lean WAY OVER to one side to complete the press, is it really a "strict shoulder press"? When I ask myself this, the answer is a resounding no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedd Johnson Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 Wayne, that is some impressive stuff. Nice work. Thanks. We all know you can smash 100+ are you gonna chime in with a vid? I remember watching a vid of you double pressing two 100's standing for reps if I'm not mistaken. > 110 lefty and 120 righty. I did use a little leg drive just to lock out the 120 with my lefty off camera and even with leg drive my left just felt off today. Righty on the other hand I went 130 after 120 and missed but I really think I can get that with better planned attempts and more fresh. I did these lifts after heavy seated military press and worked up to 300 for a single. I might try it again next week fresh if I feel good. Did some reps with the 100 kettle bell after for the hell of it. That's the biggest kb we have. You can see my lefty actually looks better with the kettle bell which I think is because my righty was tired from doing too many singles. dayuum! Word. Yes, I am going to try this. It was posted after my shoulder workout, so i did not get a chance to try it yet. Possibly tonight prior to my Chain Jog. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hellswindstaff Posted May 18, 2013 Author Share Posted May 18, 2013 Wayne, that was some very nice pressing. Also, the strictest video posted yet. There is a fine line between a Press and a "Bent Press" folks. If your torso has to lean WAY OVER to one side to complete the press, is it really a "strict shoulder press"? When I ask myself this, the answer is a resounding no. i may have missed a post, but who exactly has submitted a "bent press"? wondering the same thing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Posted May 19, 2013 Share Posted May 19, 2013 Wayne, that was some very nice pressing. Also, the strictest video posted yet. There is a fine line between a Press and a "Bent Press" folks. If your torso has to lean WAY OVER to one side to complete the press, is it really a "strict shoulder press"? When I ask myself this, the answer is a resounding no. Thanks, dude. I appreciate the comment but I think the ''fine line'' part was a bit of an exaggeration don't you think? There's a pretty big difference between a little lean and a bent press. It's almost impossible not to lean a little bit when you have all that weight on one side. I don't think any of the submitted vids in this thread are guilty of excessive lean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedd Johnson Posted May 19, 2013 Share Posted May 19, 2013 http://youtu.be/usOVge3cmx8 Tried this yesterday. Shoulders felt like garbage, especially acromions from doing two pressing workouts in the same 7-day period. I think i can get my 110 when I am not feeling so beat up. I realize I leaned back a bit, so if it doesn't count, no problem. Video is still currently uploading, at the time of posting. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwwm Posted May 19, 2013 Share Posted May 19, 2013 Nice work Jedd!!! You are looking jacked! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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