Jump to content

Whats A Respectable Two Handed Pinch?


Mun

Recommended Posts

i think BW ratios to pinching should be considered more... heck, i continually track my pinch lifting marks by taking BW into account. It is kind of counterintuitive too, because my best pulls fall on days when i weigh less than 195. I know the ratio thing kind of takes away from the pinching achievements of the bigger guys (of course a 300 lb guy shouldn't be expected to pull BW), but it still is a great way to track individual progress

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm sure Kody Burns can do it. He has a good strength/weight ratio because he carries no extra weight. He's at the top of this game.

we're not talking about the top .01% of the equation. that's like saying a 300# C & J is not strong because Reza can do 580#. its strong.

And anybody who only thinks in terms of maximal strength will eventually have a hard time climbing stairs. There's more ways than one to look at things.

i never said anything about maximal strength being the only metric. i am the first one to espouse the importance of all the other aspects of human movement. there is speed, power, flexibility, mobility, stability, endurance etc. people who ignore all these for only strength are going to have huge problems, as you say.

but you're talking about a 'strength sport', so yes #'s on the bar do matter. BW can never be taken out of the equation, especially as the movement contested becomes larger and larger. as I've stated previously, if you check the WR's for OLY lifting, there is not a SINGLE instance of a WR in a lighter category exceeding that in a heavier. why? partly because you have a large enough sampling of the population attempting the movement to discover the upper limit of human potential. to this day, no one has posted a 600# C & J. many people are within a couple kgs, but for whatever reason, this is, at least close to, the upper limit of the human body, regardless of BW.

Girevoy Sport is very similar and can be used to observe certain aspects of the limits of the human body. Though not widely popular in the west, it is highly contested in Europe and Asia. From the results over 50 years, there are certain human limits that can be postulated. its a questions of percentages. the record for Long Cycle for the heaviest weight category is nearly twice the number as for the lightest. BUT, as with OLY lifting, the record for even the lightest weight group (Sergey Rudnev) is still way way way past what can be achieved by 99% of the population. and, the bells are the same weight regardless of whether you are in the 105kg category or the 60kg. you don't hear Rudnev complaining that the bells are 100% of his BW while they are only 65% of Denisov. he does less reps, but more than most people can do at twice his weight.

(of course a 300 lb guy shouldn't be expected to pull BW)

this is exactly what I am talking about by the way, though this lift is still new and not widely sampled, 300# on the device would be earth shattering and 400 is probably simply not possible. so there ARE physical limits

my overall point being, if the first and primary thing you think about is lifting or evaluating yourself in terms of BW, you are missing the much bigger picture and drastically limiting yourself. AND you are talking about Gripsport which is definitely less BW based than most other strength contests, so I would ask you, why is that your go-to metric?

Google Jim Splaine and get back to me.

Edited by Mike Sharkey
Link to comment
Share on other sites

BW should be taken into context for anything involving the body that is for sure. I respect lighter guys lifting big weights in comparison to their size and I respect just big lifts even if the lifter is over 400lbs-like brian shaw clean and jerking a blobzilla- Both are strong. You could argue what is better all day but both are strong in my book. I compare myself to my self first, as long as I am making progress I'm happy.

As far as a respectable two hand pinch I would say any lift you trained hard to get. For the extra competitive you could always check the best lifts in your weight class for a number to shoot for.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

BW ratio is a good strength metre, especially in grip strength. I'm just under 100kg at the mo and can still pinch hang my weight.

You can gainsay either way...it might be interesting to know the No.s, both BW and best pinch of the people arguing.

At BSH I had a 102kg fall short by about an inch at a weight of 92.85kg, whilst still remaining decent! :)

I will always try to work to BW and then add!

If you can't you can de-load with bands but there's something about working with your full body that adds a little more!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm sure Kody Burns can do it. He has a good strength/weight ratio because he carries no extra weight. He's at the top of this game.

we're not talking about the top .01% of the equation. that's like saying a 300# C & J is not strong because Reza can do 580#. its strong.

And anybody who only thinks in terms of maximal strength will eventually have a hard time climbing stairs. There's more ways than one to look at things.

i never said anything about maximal strength being the only metric. i am the first one to espouse the importance of all the other aspects of human movement. there is speed, power, flexibility, mobility, stability, endurance etc. people who ignore all these for only strength are going to have huge problems, as you say.

but you're talking about a 'strength sport', so yes #'s on the bar do matter. BW can never be taken out of the equation, especially as the movement contested becomes larger and larger. as I've stated previously, if you check the WR's for OLY lifting, there is not a SINGLE instance of a WR in a lighter category exceeding that in a heavier. why? partly because you have a large enough sampling of the population attempting the movement to discover the upper limit of human potential. to this day, no one has posted a 600# C & J. many people are within a couple kgs, but for whatever reason, this is, at least close to, the upper limit of the human body, regardless of BW.

Girevoy Sport is very similar and can be used to observe certain aspects of the limits of the human body. Though not widely popular in the west, it is highly contested in Europe and Asia. From the results over 50 years, there are certain human limits that can be postulated. its a questions of percentages. the record for Long Cycle for the heaviest weight category is nearly twice the number as for the lightest. BUT, as with OLY lifting, the record for even the lightest weight group (Sergey Rudnev) is still way way way past what can be achieved by 99% of the population. and, the bells are the same weight regardless of whether you are in the 105kg category or the 60kg. you don't hear Rudnev complaining that the bells are 100% of his BW while they are only 65% of Denisov. he does less reps, but more than most people can do at twice his weight.

(of course a 300 lb guy shouldn't be expected to pull BW)

this is exactly what I am talking about by the way, though this lift is still new and not widely sampled, 300# on the device would be earth shattering and 400 is probably simply not possible. so there ARE physical limits

my overall point being, if the first and primary thing you think about is lifting or evaluating yourself in terms of BW, you are missing the much bigger picture and drastically limiting yourself. AND you are talking about Gripsport which is definitely less BW based than most other strength contests, so I would ask you, why is that your go-to metric?

Google Jim Splaine and get back to me.

That's cool mate. So what do you think is a respectable 2hp?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Find your weight class - find out the qualifying number for that class for Nationals. And that's respectable - not outstanding or anything - just respectable - and that's the question isn't it?

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Find your weight class - find out the qualifying number for that class for Nationals. And that's respectable - not outstanding or anything - just respectable - and that's the question isn't it?

Got it...

The qualifying number for class 120k = 220lbs and class 120+ = 230lbs.

"Not Respectable" highlighted in yellow. I'll be sure to tell Juha. ;)

xun6.jpg
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Find your weight class - find out the qualifying number for that class for Nationals. And that's respectable - not outstanding or anything - just respectable - and that's the question isn't it?

Got it...

The qualifying number for class 120k = 220lbs and class 120+ = 230lbs.

"Not Respectable" highlighted in yellow. I'll be sure to tell Juha. ;)

xun6.jpg

What can I say - those are the numbers on the list. :) Squeeze harder maybe :)?

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

That's cool mate. So what do you think is a respectable 2hp?

That's cool mate? Jesus, did you even look up Splaine?

Like I said, I know "0" about 2HP, which is why I didn't answer the question.

What I do know about is how to get better, regardless of what you apply it to.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

And listen, my good friend is 150# soaking wet and carrying a puppy. The LAST thing he talks about is his BW ratio, because he knows it is going to have to be way higher to do anything remotely respectable. Except of course BW exercises. But that's sorta the point, one arm chins aren't impressive at 150 because the leverage is severely reduced. Teemu doing it on a RT at 205 is a different story. Anyyyyway, my friend knows that a 2x BW DL isn't that much at his weight, which is why his best pull is over 500. By the way, that's him in the picture with Jedd, JT and me. Look for his name on the Red Nail Roster soon(ish).

Edited by Mike Sharkey
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Get a result in competition that is in the top 10 for your weight class. That is very respectable if you can hold on to a top 10 place as more people compete. It will be easy though in the two lightest weight classes for several more years unless we get a lot of light climbers.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So get down there :D

Did someone say "get over here!" <---- In his scorpion voice.....

Sorry I had to jump in with this bad Mortal Kombat reference.

But back to business. My own take would be to look at your weight class and the one above and shoot for somewhere near the top for what a respectable 2HP would be for you. For a general number I would also say 180-200 is pretty darn good.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

i think respectable really is 200#+ anymore. some bigger and stronger guys are pulling more but, that's a good bench mark. I also think it's sort of outside of weight classes since they're relatively new. not that I think it should be regardless of weight, I just think that it is. especially since the top 50 list doesn't take weight into account and was the standard for quite a while now.

i think 10 reps at body weight for a rafter pull up might be a bit much. I think that since you can get a lot of chest into it should be easier than what 10 reps BW would indicate. I will be trying these this weekend. my 2hp is right around body weight. i think the issue is that not a lot of guys train/test on the BW pinch pull up.

whatever respectable is I need to get mine moving up again.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm trying to figure out why my one hand pinch is so much less than half my 2HP? Like way less! And how to fix it of course in the next two weeks :).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Find your weight class - find out the qualifying number for that class for Nationals. And that's respectable - not outstanding or anything - just respectable - and that's the question isn't it?

Got it...

The qualifying number for class 120k = 220lbs and class 120+ = 230lbs.

"Not Respectable" highlighted in yellow. I'll be sure to tell Juha. ;)

I struggle with some of these numbers too because, for example, the 66k qualifier of 170 is set above my World Record of 166 pounds. And I don't think it's simply because "we need to get more skinny climbers into the sport." Scarcely anyone has lifted 117% of their bodyweight and in fact only three people have ever. I'm just saying. I don't know how long my record will stand, but the Nationals qualifier should probably be less than the world record.

I'm trying to figure out why my one hand pinch is so much less than half my 2HP? Like way less! And how to fix it of course in the next two weeks :).

Because you can only use 50% of the number of hands?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Find your weight class - find out the qualifying number for that class for Nationals. And that's respectable - not outstanding or anything - just respectable - and that's the question isn't it?

Got it...

The qualifying number for class 120k = 220lbs and class 120+ = 230lbs.

"Not Respectable" highlighted in yellow. I'll be sure to tell Juha. ;)

I struggle with some of these numbers too because, for example, the 66k qualifier of 170 is set above my World Record of 166 pounds. And I don't think it's simply because "we need to get more skinny climbers into the sport." Scarcely anyone has lifted 117% of their bodyweight and in fact only three people have ever. I'm just saying. I don't know how long my record will stand, but the Nationals qualifier should probably be less than the world record.

I'm trying to figure out why my one hand pinch is so much less than half my 2HP? Like way less! And how to fix it of course in the next two weeks :).

Because you can only use 50% of the number of hands?

But my one hand lifts are about 35% left and 40% right of my two hand when done using the Euro setup. I do better on a pinch block where you can tilt etc.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Measuring pinch strength using only the Euro 2HP can be misleading. A much better measure is to look at the combined total for the 1HP and then add the 2HP numbers. Your 1HP may be low because of a relative lack of overall pinch strength (compared with someone who has a balanced 2HP/1HP ratio like David Horne and Kody), masked as long as you stick to the 2HP which probably suits your hand morphology better. Same with me, my hand configuration probably suits the 1HP much better than the 2HP.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

When a WR is not enough to qualify for a National Championship then whoever set the limits need to go home and do their homework properly.



Find your weight class - find out the qualifying number for that class for Nationals. And that's respectable - not outstanding or anything - just respectable - and that's the question isn't it?

Got it...

The qualifying number for class 120k = 220lbs and class 120+ = 230lbs.

"Not Respectable" highlighted in yellow. I'll be sure to tell Juha. ;)

I struggle with some of these numbers too because, for example, the 66k qualifier of 170 is set above my World Record of 166 pounds. And I don't think it's simply because "we need to get more skinny climbers into the sport." Scarcely anyone has lifted 117% of their bodyweight and in fact only three people have ever. I'm just saying. I don't know how long my record will stand, but the Nationals qualifier should probably be less than the world record.


I'm trying to figure out why my one hand pinch is so much less than half my 2HP? Like way less! And how to fix it of course in the next two weeks :).

Because you can only use 50% of the number of hands?

Edited by Mikael Siversson
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Measuring pinch strength using only the Euro 2HP can be misleading. A much better measure is to look at the combined total for the 1HP and then add the 2HP numbers. Your 1HP may be low because of a relative lack of overall pinch strength (compared with someone who has a balanced 2HP/1HP ratio like David Horne and Kody), masked as long as you stick to the 2HP which probably suits your hand morphology better. Same with me, my hand configuration probably suits the 1HP much better than the 2HP.

I have about a ten pound difference between my left and right hands. I think the way my thumbs will not directly oppose my fingers may be partly to blame. I think I have also spent a huge amount of time learning to make one plus one equal three so to speak by working into my strengths in the two hand pinch and figuring out how to use my body as well there. In the one hand version I feel totally disconnected from any use of my body. I have to admit to having done nearly zero work with the one hand version - I am hopeful I can figure out a better connection with more practice.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

this thread is specifically about 2hp. 1hp doesn't enter into the thread.

I think an issue that you bring with 1hp is that many of us have spent the bulk of our time on 2hp since it's contested far more often. so, it might not be that there is an imbalance so much as a lack of skill in expressing strength fully.

i also agree that some of us are much better suited to one that the other.

Measuring pinch strength using only the Euro 2HP can be misleading. A much better measure is to look at the combined total for the 1HP and then add the 2HP numbers. Your 1HP may be low because of a relative lack of overall pinch strength (compared with someone who has a balanced 2HP/1HP ratio like David Horne and Kody), masked as long as you stick to the 2HP which probably suits your hand morphology better. Same with me, my hand configuration probably suits the 1HP much better than the 2HP.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I did train with another guy for a few years here in Perth and we did the same pinch workout, 2HP followed by the 1HP. My best in the 2HP was only slightly better than his (91 vs 89 from memory) but my 1HP was typically 15% higher than his so the only explanation I have for that is that my hands suits the 1HP much better than the 2HP, relative to him.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

this thread is specifically about 2hp. 1hp doesn't enter into the thread.

I think an issue that you bring with 1hp is that many of us have spent the bulk of our time on 2hp since it's contested far more often. so, it might not be that there is an imbalance so much as a lack of skill in expressing strength fully.

i also agree that some of us are much better suited to one that the other.

Measuring pinch strength using only the Euro 2HP can be misleading. A much better measure is to look at the combined total for the 1HP and then add the 2HP numbers. Your 1HP may be low because of a relative lack of overall pinch strength (compared with someone who has a balanced 2HP/1HP ratio like David Horne and Kody), masked as long as you stick to the 2HP which probably suits your hand morphology better. Same with me, my hand configuration probably suits the 1HP much better than the 2HP.

Brent - I understand it's about the 2HP but I have a 52# difference between the total of my L&R hands (training lifts on the Euro) separately and what I do two hands together. There has to be something rather major happening to account for that kind of difference that I really need to address if I am to progress further in either lift.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I know I position my hands differently for the 1hp. even differently left from right for 1hp. also, people have been having better luck with different widths 1h than they use 2h.

I wonder if the 2 lifts aren't as related as we are all assuming. they seem closely related but, with people's numbers all over the place, maybe they aren't.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I know I position my hands differently for the 1hp. even differently left from right for 1hp. also, people have been having better luck with different widths 1h than they use 2h.

I wonder if the 2 lifts aren't as related as we are all assuming. they seem closely related but, with people's numbers all over the place, maybe they aren't.

I don't think mine are even the same species :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Today I did 86k in the 2HP followed by 44k right and 42k left in the 1HP (same total in other words). I place my left hand very differently from how I position the right one.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Unfortunately, your content contains terms that we do not allow. Please edit your content to remove the highlighted words below.
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy policies.