Grades Of Crs

[J.Burns]

what grade of cold rolled steel s usually used in bending certfications? 1144, 12L14, c1018, c1045

[Mike Sharkey]

EJ will chime in. He's the Encyclopedia Britannica of steel. Nonetheless, I believe the Red Nail is 12L14.

[EJ Livesey]

12L14 ironmind and Fbbc uses that. It goes through an extra crystallization process which makes it harder and not brittle. 1018 is good, it's a step up from hrs. Everything is the same except the end hardening/crystallization. That's why generally the 1018 is darker than the 12L14, even if you Brillo pad it.

Those are the two predominate steels used. And you have no worry of snapping either due to the low carbon and zinc content. Stick with those. DO NOT EXPERIMENT WITH KEY STOCK OR HIGH CARBON STEEL.

Edit: Sharkey beat me to it. (Check the times).

Edited April 25, 2014 by EJ Livesey

[Mike Sharkey]

12L14 ironmind and Fbbc uses that. It goes through an extra crystallization process which makes it harder and not brittle. 1018 is good, it's a step up from hrs. Everything is the same except the end hardening/crystallization. That's why generally the 1018 is darker than the 12L14, even if you Brillo pad it.

Those are the two predominate steels used. And you have no worry of snapping either due to the low carbon and zinc content. Stick with those. DO NOT EXPERIMENT WITH KEY STOCK OR HIGH CARBON STEEL.

Edit: Sharkey beat me to it. (Check the times).

I did say you would post lol. You were probably writing as I was hitting enter

[EJ Livesey]

I actually was Sharkey, lol. I figure if I'm bending it I might as well know as much as I can about it. Snapping steel sucks and scares the shit out of me.

But my all time favorite is stainless. 303L and 400 series will make you strong and force you to man up.

Edited April 25, 2014 by EJ Livesey

[Mike Sharkey]

I actually was Sharkey, lol. I figure if I'm bending it I might as well know as much as I can about it. Snapping steel sucks and scares the shit out of me.

But my all time favorite is stainless. 303L and 400 series will make you strong and force you to man up.

Everything I know about metallurgy I learned from you.

[J.Burns]

sweet thanks guys!

[Tim71]

If I may chime in here.

I like 12L14 because:

It's easier to cut because of the lead content. You can cut a 5/16 piece with a hacksaw and seems like your done before you know it.

Seems to be more consistant than 1018.

On average it's slightly harder than 1018 according to the engineering experts and the yield charts.

Doesn't have the spring to it and just has a good feel bending it. Doesn't melt at any given point and gives you a solid workout the whole way through.

Now, there are 1018 steels that happen to be stronger than any given 1018 batch. I've got some 1018 right now that's tougher than a red nail but on average, 12L14 is slightly harder.

Some of the zinc-plated steels you get in the hardware stores are 1008 which would explain why they are always easier than any 1018 you buy from a steel supplier.

I have messed with 1045. Never had it snap but it's hard to find. In 1/4 inch sizes, it's almost as hard as a easier G5 bolt but it's hard to find in 5/16 sizes.

I agree with EJ in that snapping steel is no good. I hate when that happens even on an easier piece.

Stainless is nice but it can burn a hacksaw blade up before you even finish one cut so cutting it is more of a chore (as is drill rod).

EJ. I was not aware that FBBC uses 12L14. Good to know that but I just always assumed they used 1018.

[Tim71]

EJ. Let me ask you a question. Has FBBC always used 12L14 or is that just what you know that they currently use?

Reason I ask, is that to me, a Red nail has the feel of bending 12L14 but back in 2008 or so when I certed on the bastard and huge bastard, to me they felt more like 1018. Actually in that order is when John ran out of the easier stock - which was 385 pounds at 7 inches and his next batch was 450 and darker looking. Really threw me for a loop when I hit that piece of steel.

I'm wondering if John "religiously" stuck to one kind of steel or had to go with what was in stock at times.

[J.Burns]

Ya any galvanized nail has snapped right under my chin which is scary as hell... Bright nails don't snap on me... Anyone ever hear of the metal supermarket

[acorn]

12L14 is going to be more consistent than 1018. I think think that FBBC and Ironmind more likely use the 1018 but that is just my personal opinion.

Other interesting ones to bend are:

1045 - tougher and springy. Similar to G5.

8620 - Hands down the toughest stuff I've bent per diameter except for G8 and it is very close to that without the springyness. Really interesting too as it feels like it has no spring to it. It either moves a little or it doesn't. Excellent training bar to give you a fight. Below is an exerpt from the rating list I have at www.gripratings.com

6.00 5/16 Square Stainless FBBC 790 Strength estimated

6.00 5/16 G5 Bolt Linear "S" 800

6.00 11/32 Round O-1 Drill Rod 830

6.00 5/16 Square CRS FBBC (650@7) 860 Strength estimated

6.00 5/16 G5 Bolt G5 Bolt (Linear S) 860

6.00 5/16 Square CRS FBBC 860

6.00 5/16 Round 8620 860

6.00 3/8 Round CRS FBBC (665@7) 880 Huge King of All Bastards Strength estimated

6.00 5/16 G8 Bolt G8 Bolt 910 Strength estimated

6.00 11/32 Round 303 Stainless 915 Strength estimated

6.00 5/16 Square CRS FBBC (705@7) 945 Strength estimated

Edited April 25, 2014 by acorn

[EJ Livesey]

Tim, As far as I know both IM and FBBC use 12L14 the switch happened maybe 2-3 years ago. It wasn't always that steel either.

Fwiw Fbbc knows what's tough and what isn't. They give us the hard stuff on purpose. The stainless they sell is 303L. That's hardened stainless. Strong as hell and tough to lathe and machine. Slight magnetic pull and binds up very easily.

If you remember a couple years ago when IM wanted to change the red nail cert rules? They wanted to ban the DO method because "it's folding the steel and not bending it". That didn't fly with the majority of the community, so their answer was the gold nail and tougher steel. Reds started calibrating at 440 or better. Now, 20-40 lbs doesn't matter to me at all. But back then it was HUGE.

And we all know steel varies. One batch could have been smelted from rebar and another from bulldozer blades. The end crystallization process is very consistent but the steel in it, isn't. Hence the small variations.

Edited April 25, 2014 by EJ Livesey

[Tim71]

Thanks for the info guys. I've always been a steel nerd.

Has anyone here ever tried the 1144 stress proof?

[EJ Livesey]

Thanks for the info guys. I've always been a steel nerd.

Has anyone here ever tried the 1144 stress proof?

The whole stress proof thing turns me off. Stress proof means high carbon. High carbon will snap. This is more used in the machinery industry for gears and parts that and not considered "wear parts". Some custom knife makers use this for their knives because they hold a razor edged and are strong. This is the same high carbon steel category as key stock.

[acorn]

Thanks for the info guys. I've always been a steel nerd.

Has anyone here ever tried the 1144 stress proof?

I never got around to trying it.

[Tim71]

I found an old post where Tom Black said that he personally talked to Randal Strossen - this was over 10 years ago - and he said that the red nail was "carbon 40" which would presumably be 1040.

Now, that doesn't seem right to me. I think that 1040 would be much tougher than what a red nail is but that's my own humble opinion.

My current favorite though has to be 12L14. I like the solid no nonsense feel it has to it. It's not springy and it doesn't load up or get easier throughout the bend.

I found a website that described stress proof as very strong and tough but "ductile" as well. I'm curious if it could be bent to under 2 inches.

[EJ Livesey]

The 1144 could definitely be bent to under 2". But the real question is at what diameter and length? 7x1/4" no problem. 7x5/16" eh I'm not willing to roll the dice. Any thicker and I'd venture to say "snap".

Well IM 10+ years ago wasnt as organized as it is today. Guys looking to cert the red used varied wraps and using IMPs was not the deal breaker with the cert, if I remember correctly. Leather could be used, but correct me if I'm wrong. And I'm sure IM bought from the cheapest source at that time. In my opinion it is very conceivable that the steel actually was 1040 or similar.

Edited April 25, 2014 by EJ Livesey

[Tim71]

http://www.gripboard.com/index.php?showtopic=4130&hl=%26quot%3Bwhite+nail%26quot%3B#entry38256

There's the old thread where in one of Tom Black's posts he says this.

The first certs were indeed with leather pads. I remember seeing a pic of one rolled up ready to cert.

Also mentions when the white nails were 1/4 inch thick and hot rolled steel.

[EJ Livesey]

I read the whole thread and the whites were HRS?! They were defiantly buying from the cheapest bidder. I wonder who thought of the progression back in the day? Steel bending had evolved so far, and I like where it's going. I see why there is a Gold Nail now.

Very informative and interesting thread. Thank you for digging that up.

[Mike Sharkey]

Guys looking to cert the red used varied wraps and using IMPs was not the deal breaker with the cert

I think Tommy told me Eric used a BATH TOWEL

[EJ Livesey]

Guys looking to cert the red used varied wraps and using IMPs was not the deal breaker with the cert

I think Tommy told me Eric used a BATH TOWEL

That is some man-shit right there. That's all out balls to the wall crazy.

[Tim71]

Here's the king of bath towel bending in my opinion. He used to do those unbraced and broke one in 30 seconds. He was way past his prime when he bent this and really didn't want it filmed since he had to brace it.

Had Don Larkin been at his peak and tried the red nail he would've killed it. Strong possibility he could've gotten the gold nail that way as well because people here who got to try those spikes said they weren't easy ones.

http://www.gripboard.com/index.php?app=galleryℑ=3204

The man is a humble legend in my opinion and a pleasure to communicate with. He requested some of braced bending items for his gym wall and I was beyond honored.

He sent me a square dock spike that he had bent for my collection and it's still a prized possession of mine.

[EJ Livesey]

Damn dude, lots of history I have no idea about. This is cool to hear. Thank you. The 80d in the link you provided isn't coming up. But I looked through the other pics. The one finger pull up blew my mind. He sounds like a strong and cool dude, what happened to him?

[acorn]

Here's the king of bath towel bending in my opinion. He used to do those unbraced and broke one in 30 seconds. He was way past his prime when he bent this and really didn't want it filmed since he had to brace it.

Had Don Larkin been at his peak and tried the red nail he would've killed it. Strong possibility he could've gotten the gold nail that way as well because people here who got to try those spikes said they weren't easy ones.

http://www.gripboard.com/index.php?app=galleryℑ=3204

The man is a humble legend in my opinion and a pleasure to communicate with. He requested some of braced bending items for his gym wall and I was beyond honored.

He sent me a square dock spike that he had bent for my collection and it's still a prized possession of mine.

Larkin is the man. I bent one of those nasty 80d spikes unbraced in 2007 when I went up to the Michigan comp. I was the only one to finish one braced or otherwise and I was already decently strong at that point. Don when bending even at that ripe age had an intensity that was unmatched.

- Aaron

[Tim71]

Hmm. Should be a video of Don bending it in 1998. It's the last one he ever bent because he knew that his time of being able to bend them was coming to an end.

Crazy how he starts it. You can see it move that way too, even through the towel.