Jari Hissa Posted September 28, 2014 Share Posted September 28, 2014 I have always done low bar back squats and after filming my squat i realised my form was very bad and i was also doing partial squats, so i decided to switch to front squats to improve my posture and learn correct form before i will add any weight to the barbell. I have been improving my mobility all over and my front squat is getting a lot better but i still get low back pain even with only a barbell without any weight and i feel its because i lose low back flexion at about parallel and experience that "butt wink". When i get about parallel my hip flexors get very tight and i have to contract my lower back muscles very hard to keep an arch and upright posture but if i go any lower i feel like i lose tension in my lower back and lose that arch. I would appreciate any tips and comments on my front squat form. I keep doing lots of mobility work all the time and hope they help to improve my form. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwXvHd1vJDA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
climber511 Posted September 28, 2014 Share Posted September 28, 2014 Butt wink is pretty common even in very good Olympic lifters and it seems to be a problem for some and not an issue for others. It looks like you are trying too hard in a way - trying to stay "rigid" instead of tight with a very very strong low back arch (maybe too arched) - tighten your abs a little maybe to hold tension there as well - just my two cents but I think you are doing all your arching in the low back and need to arch the upper back some more - a more even arching if you will. Relax a little - you just have 45# in your hands. Just drop down and come up without all the thinking and "preparing". You can also add in some Goblet squats ala Dan John and spend some time at the bottom spreading your knees and moving around some as a flexibility drill. Time is important - it can take a long time to undo the stiffness that took you years to develop. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king crusher Posted September 28, 2014 Share Posted September 28, 2014 I agree with climber. And will add you're breaking at the knees. You need to break at the hips. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Sharkey Posted September 28, 2014 Share Posted September 28, 2014 I agree with climber. And will add you're breaking at the knees. You need to break at the hips. Can you explain that? I've not heard that terminology before . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wulfgeat Posted September 28, 2014 Share Posted September 28, 2014 Dude, play around with how you place your feet. It looks to me that the placement of your feet is messing you up. Everyone has different hip structures, and that affects how they can squat. The way that I have to full squat is to place my feet at about hip width, and have my feet at a 70 degree angle to a line drawn through both heels. You look like you have your feet wider than that and at a 45 degree angle to that same line. Your foot form is much better for a squat that doesn't go below parallel (because of the problems you are experiencing). But since you are trying to do a full squat variation (which is the only point to doing a front squat), you have to adjust your feet so that you can comfortably externally rotate your femors at the bottom of the lift (saves both your back and your knees). If you have knee valgus at the bottom of your full squat (which it looks like you do because of your foot placement), it will put way too much pressure on the ACL, and dump too much weight on the torso (causing the exact problems you are experiencing). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
climber511 Posted September 28, 2014 Share Posted September 28, 2014 I have a way of teaching the squat that is different from most - I don't have a clue where I learned it but it seems to work well. Stand up and act like you are going to jump up in the air. Now DO NOT THINK - jump (not super high) and land in a full rock bottom squat. Don't land high and lower yourself - land at the bottom! Your body is smarter than you are - it will do what needs done if you get your head out of the way and let it happen. Do this several times. That "landing position" you find yourself in at the bottom is the correct width and foot angle for you every time - I've seen it work time after time over the years. This is not your Power Lifting stance at all - this is front squat or what is usually called a high bar "athletic squat". It's exactly like what happens when you Olympic lift during the full squat versions of the snatch and clean. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wulfgeat Posted September 28, 2014 Share Posted September 28, 2014 I have a way of teaching the squat that is different from most - I don't have a clue where I learned it but it seems to work well. Stand up and act like you are going to jump up in the air. Now DO NOT THINK - jump (not super high) and land in a full rock bottom squat. Don't land high and lower yourself - land at the bottom! Your body is smarter than you are - it will do what needs done if you get your head out of the way and let it happen. Do this several times. That "landing position" you find yourself in at the bottom is the correct width and foot angle for you every time - I've seen it work time after time over the years. This is not your Power Lifting stance at all - this is front squat or what is usually called a high bar "athletic squat". It's exactly like what happens when you Olympic lift during the full squat versions of the snatch and clean. Funny story: both my brother and I figured out how to place our feet for a full squat by doing exactly what Chris describes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king crusher Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 I agree with climber. And will add you're breaking at the knees. You need to break at the hips. Can you explain that? I've not heard that terminology before . I learned that from a pro strongman and 860 raw Comp squatter. I was breaking at the knees and everything else would follow but when you are about to go down on a squat. Front or back squat, the first place that should initiate the downward motion is your hips. Stick your butt out and that breaks your hips. Your knees will follow. It really helped me. Also keep feet pointed out instead of straight forward. That allows your hips to open a lot more and you can really sink a squat. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jari Hissa Posted September 29, 2014 Author Share Posted September 29, 2014 Thank you all for your answers. I tried to jump and land at the bottom and always landed on the same stance, narrow width and feet pointed out a lot. It felt very comfortable and i was able to easily hit depth. I will film my squat again tomorrow when i go to the gym and see how it looks then. I will also continue to stretch my hamstrings and hip flexors a lot because they are very tight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jari Hissa Posted September 30, 2014 Author Share Posted September 30, 2014 I filmed my front squat today and now it looks better. I took a slightly narrower stance and turned my foot out more(the same stance where i landed when i jumped)and it felt much better. Also this time i felt my spinal erectors working more and didnt experience any low back pain. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=McnkM0Rmzd4&list=UUf1Hsdt-Hu2oCzNU99BncCA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4REUQaRnh8Y&index=2&list=UUf1Hsdt-Hu2oCzNU99BncCA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jari Hissa Posted September 30, 2014 Author Share Posted September 30, 2014 This is a little off topic but im also trying to improve my deadlift form, what do you think, is this good form https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TcpIEjx4ZCs&list=UUf1Hsdt-Hu2oCzNU99BncCA&index=1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king crusher Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 Your front squat looks so much better now. You look more comfortable doing them too. The dead lift looks good too. When you start adding more weight to the bar remember to pull the slack out of the bar. It can help in heavier pulls. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jari Hissa Posted October 3, 2014 Author Share Posted October 3, 2014 Your front squat looks so much better now. You look more comfortable doing them too. The dead lift looks good too. When you start adding more weight to the bar remember to pull the slack out of the bar. It can help in heavier pulls. Good to hear, i will now start adding more weight to the bar 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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