Wilks points for max gripper close

[Cannon]

Kristy is getting more into powerlifting and some of the meets have used a wilks score for final placing.  I think some of the NAGS qualifiers were derived from a similar calculation.  Anyway, I got curious about entering numbers for a max gripper close (MMS).  Using this calculator, what is your best score? 

http://wilkscalculator.com/lbs

Bodyweight should be at the time of the close, ideally in a contest.
Lifted weight would be the gripper rating in pounds. 

Just for fun, post your numbers and your score if you want.  

       

[Fist of Fury]

40 points is my best.

In my opinion this is not a good method for grip, at least not for one handed grip. Someone at 87 kg and closing a #3.5 can get a better score than someone at 120 kg and closing a #4 gripper. Closing a #4 gripper is always more impressive than a #3.5 in my book, regardless of bodyweight.

[Squeezus]

In contest: 50.17 (20mm block set)

In gym: 51.85 (MMS)

With the research I have done into scaled lift comparisons, allometric scaling is the most fair. Wills was designed with specific lifts in mind and was scaled off of the records on those specific lifts.

Edited December 1, 2016 by Squeezus

[Cannon]

2 hours ago, Fist of Fury said:

40 points is my best.

In my opinion this is not a good method for grip, at least not for one handed grip. Someone at 87 kg and closing a #3.5 can get a better score than someone at 120 kg and closing a #4 gripper. Closing a #4 gripper is always more impressive than a #3.5 in my book, regardless of bodyweight.

Good point. I can't say I really understand how the points work. 

[Cannon]

I got 56.43. 

158 gripper close at 145 body weight. 

[Cannon]

46 minutes ago, Squeezus said:

In contest: 50.17 (20mm block set)

In gym: 51.85 (MMS)

With the research I have done into scaled lift comparisons, allometric scaling is the most fair. Wills was designed with specific lifts in mind and was scaled off of the records on those specific lifts.

Is there an allometric calculator?

[Justin Matney]

42

[Chez]

52.11 for training close---I weigh a lot

Edited December 1, 2016 by Chez

[benjaminBoy]

44.58 one rep max

A BTR 140# 2.5 from cannon at 169BW

 

[Squeezus]

12 hours ago, Cannon said:

Is there an allometric calculator?

You can find a calculator in this really good article.

It's basically just S*M ^-2/3

Where S = strength (or weight lifted)
And M = body mass

[Daniel Fleming]

I got 52.71

170lb gripper @ 176lbs BW

But I agree,  this isn't the best method  for grippers.  Everyone 200+lbs will need to be able to close a #4 or something to be close to bodyweight.  id bet there are way more lightweights close to closing BW.

[Squeezus]

Grip and especially grippers have an interesting relationship with weight. It cannot be disputed that people in the lighter weight classes have trouble keeping up with the heavier weight classes, but there is certainly a point at which there is almost no benefit to being heavier, and it seems like that point is at the 93kg or 105kg weight class. If you look at it, plenty of the best crushers in history (Vano, Paul Knight, Gabriel Sum, Valery, Durniat, Morgan, Heath Sexton, Kevin Bussi, Teemu, Adam Glass, Tommy Jennings) fall into those classes.

[Chez]

I think the extra size and weight helps most on the set since you use a lot of full body power to set a heavy gripper. On really heavy grippers, I throw my weight into it. I think the weight advantage is less noticeable once its set since its about the hand and very small muscles and tendons at that point. Overall, I don't believe grip is as closely related to body weight as say powerlifting. The heavier events like the DO axle are more so though since you can't DO 400 on the axle if you can't deadlift 400 easy with an oly bar.  

Just my thoughts.

Edited December 1, 2016 by Chez

[Fist of Fury]

4 minutes ago, Squeezus said:

Grip and especially grippers have an interesting relationship with weight. It cannot be disputed that people in the lighter weight classes have trouble keeping up with the heavier weight classes, but there is certainly a point at which there is almost no benefit to being heavier, and it seems like that point is at the 93kg or 105kg weight class. If you look at it, plenty of the best crushers in history (Vano, Paul Knight, Gabriel Sum, Valery, Durniat, Morgan, Heath Sexton, Kevin Bussi, Teemu, Adam Glass, Tommy Jennings) fall into those classes.

Yes and all except from Morton and Samuelsson of Ironmind's official #4 closers.

Thick bar seems to be the only implement where heavy people have the advantage.

Hands and forearms are small muscles, doesn't have much mass, they can get big and strong without the rest of the body, I think thats the reason. Otherwise everyone with a very strong grip would look like professional strongmen.

[Fist of Fury]

4 minutes ago, Chez said:

I think the extra size and weight helps most on the set since you use a lot of full body power to set a heavy gripper. On really heavy grippers, I throw my weight into it. I think the weight advantage is less noticeable once its set since its about the hand and very small muscles and tendons at that point. Overall, I don't believe grip is as closely related to body weight as say powerlifting. The heavier events like the DO axle are more so though since you can't DO 400 on the axle if you can't deadlift 400 easy with an oly bar.  

Just my thoughts.

True but heavy people also seem to have the advantage on one handed thick bar. I know lifting 100 kg or even 150 kg is no problem for my back or legs but I'm nowhere near that on the rolling thunder.

[Chez]

1 minute ago, Fist of Fury said:

True but heavy people also seem to have the advantage on one handed thick bar. I know listing 100 kg or even 150 kg is no problem for my back or legs with I'm nowhere near that on the rolling thunder.

Another factor is those big people usually have bigger hands also. and hand size is huge for thick bar since they get more hand wrapped around. Also for pinch since they have more hand on the implement. Jedd for example has monster size thumbs and large hands in general. I think those huge thumbs really help him on 2HP. He has also worked hard of course but his thumbs are a natural advantage like michael phelps has a great body for swimming. 

Edited December 1, 2016 by Chez

[Fist of Fury]

Just now, Chez said:

Another factor is those big people usually have bigger hands also. and hand size is huge for thick bar. Also for pinch since they have more hand on the implement. 

Yes hand size is obviously a big factor but actually many of the strong people doesn't have really big hands. Some have, like Mark Felix, but as far as I'm aware a guy like Alexey doesn't have "big" hands.

[Chez]

2 minutes ago, Fist of Fury said:

Yes hand size is obviously a big factor but actually many of the strong people doesn't have really big hands. Some have, like Mark Felix, but as far as I'm aware a guy like Alexey doesn't have "big" hands.

There are outliers with everything. Mudgsy boggues was in the nba at 5'3". I am numbers guy and I always looks for trends etc. and I'm not saying someone can't overcome a physical disadvantage, just saying there are people with physical advantages for certain events and it helps them. 

Edited December 1, 2016 by Chez

[Fist of Fury]

I actually don't think it's the size of the hands that is the culprit, unless you have very small hands, then it's obviously a disadvantage. There's so many strong people on thick bar out there that have normal hands. I think the reason it's harder is becasue it is harder to recover from. It's tougher than most (if not all) other types of grip training.

[Kluv#0]

Only 13 men in 9 years have certified on COC #3.5  the "smallest" is Barch,Jr at 210lbs but everybody else is over 235lbs some over 300lbs

Edited December 1, 2016 by Kluv#0

[Fist of Fury]

11 minutes ago, Kluv#0 said:

Only 13 men in 9 years have certified on COC #3.5  the "smallest" is Barch,Jr at 210lbs but everybody else is over 235lbs some over 300lbs

It seems like bodyweight becomes more important when using a wider set, CCS has always been used for the #3.5.

[Chez]

5 minutes ago, Fist of Fury said:

It seems like bodyweight becomes more important when using a wider set, CCS has always been used for the #3.5.

I also think hand size comes into play here as well. You can lessen hand size with an MMS set if you are efficent at it but CCS is pretty wide when considering the width of the gripper handles on top of the card. I for example have 8 inch hands and I have to move the gripper back farther in the hand to get my pinky on from the start with CCS. I sacrifice leverage here for it. Some guys like Paul knight (watch his CCS vids) Keep the gripper forward in the hand but leave the pinky off until the handles get closer. 

 

And I have CCS closed 3.5s in training. I'm back after the cert now since recovering from an injury. 

Edited December 1, 2016 by Chez

[Fist of Fury]

1 minute ago, Chez said:

I also think hand size comes into play here as well. You can lessen hand size with an MMS set if you are efficent at it but CCS is pretty wide when considering the width of the gripper handles on top of the card. I for example have 8 inch hands and I have to move the gripper back farther in the hand to get my pinky on from the start with CCS. I sacrifice leverage here for it. Some guys like Paul knight (watch his CCS vids) Keep the gripper forward in the hand but leave the pinky off until the handles get closer. 

Yes for sure but we also have to remember that grippers vary in the spread, so one might be much easier to close with a CCS than another one, even if the ratings are close or even the same.

[Chez]

1 minute ago, Fist of Fury said:

Yes for sure but we also have to remember that grippers vary in the spread, so one might be much easier to close with a CCS than another one, even if the ratings are close or even the same.

Def, but the high quality brands like COC, GHP and Tetting don't vary much in spread. COC and GHP are usually around 3 inch. Tetting 2.75 inches. The old COCs varied more. 

Edited December 1, 2016 by Chez

[Fist of Fury]

7 minutes ago, Chez said:

Def, but the high quality brands like COC, GHP and Tetting don't vary much in spread. COC and GHP are usually around 3 inch. Tetting 2.75 inches. The old COCs varied more. 

What I meant to say was the sweep can be harder, as it is with GHP. They definitely feel a lot harder than all the COC's I have and very much harder than the Tetting's I have. I think the technique you described, not having the pinky on until the close is the way to go. Hand size obviously matters but I think if you can close a light gripper with a certain spread but cannot close a hard gripper with the same spread, knurling and same type of spring it's definitely not an issue of hand size, it's an issue of lack of strength. With that said, I'm definitely not a fan of the CCS rule. I think it's unfair to people with small hands.

Sorry, enough rambling, thread was about Wilks score.

My best:

MMS: 40.00
1" block: 39.70
CCS: 37.30