Chuck Hench Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 Saw this interesting new news article where they used grip strength as the litmus test to determine that the new generation of males if far less masculine than previous generations. Thoughts? http://www.nationalreview.com/article/439040/male-physical-decline-masculinity-threatened 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Juncker Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 I agree, men are more feminized than ever before. I supervise a group of guys, some of which are younger than 21 years old. They don't understand the purpose of work or the point of being strong. It's embarrassing. They scoff at my callused, cut, and beat up hands. They they act as though slag burns on my lower arms and chest (from welding overhead, like a man) are something to be ashamed of. Not all young guys are this way, but more and more are falling away from the tradition of what it means to be a man. This is a soapbox-type issue for me right now. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Hench Posted August 19, 2016 Author Share Posted August 19, 2016 Yeah man, my nephew is 20, just got his first job last year and still doesn't have a driver's license. Too afraid to drive. Plays games all day long and probably only weighs 110lb. No clue how to be a man. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
temmmeeee Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 Idk for sure, but there's a lot of information out there saying that there's a bunch of unnecessary additives in processed foods these days. Way more than the past generation. Some sources say (and "prove" but again I haven't invested the time to do extensive research) that some of these additives affect human hormones if enough is consumed. Since basically everything is processed these days, seems like it definitely could be part of the cause. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenMorrissey Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 Most of the guys around my age went into office-type jobs/customer service to start with, whereas a lot of men in my dad's generation (at least where we live now) went into some type of manual labour as a first job (farming, mechanic, blacksmith assistant etc). Almost all of the guys my age that I've asked to try and close a CoC #1 can't close it. My dad hasn't had a manual labour job in around 25 years, but just missed a #2.5 close on his first attempt. His brothers can both almost manage a #2. I've only met one guy my age without specific grip training who closed a #1.5 and #2, and that was because he was out helping his dad on the farm every day since he was 13. So this could be a large factor I guess. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Juncker Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 5 minutes ago, BenMorrissey said: Most of the guys around my age went into office-type jobs/customer service to start with, whereas a lot of men in my dad's generation (at least where we live now) went into some type of manual labour as a first job (farming, mechanic, blacksmith assistant etc). Almost all of the guys my age that I've asked to try and close a CoC #1 can't close it. My dad hasn't had a manual labour job in around 25 years, but just missed a #2.5 close on his first attempt. His brothers can both almost manage a #2. I've only met one guy my age without specific grip training who closed a #1.5 and #2, and that was because he was out helping his dad on the farm every day since he was 13. So this could be a large factor I guess. That's wierd because my dad, who has worked construction his whole life, mashed the handles on my CoC 2 like it was made for kids. He missed the 2.5 but had no warm up or gripper training. I can remember him grabbing a pair of 2x12x12 boards in each hand (in a pinch grip) and carrying them around the job site when I was a kid. Manual labor goes a long way IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenMorrissey Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 13 minutes ago, Adam Juncker said: That's wierd because my dad, who has worked construction his whole life, mashed the handles on my CoC 2 like it was made for kids. He missed the 2.5 but had no warm up or gripper training. I can remember him grabbing a pair of 2x12x12 boards in each hand (in a pinch grip) and carrying them around the job site when I was a kid. Manual labor goes a long way IMO. If it makes any difference my dad has 8.5 inch long hands (maybe slightly longer) and 8.25 inch wrists (I've got 8 inch hands and unfortunately 7 inch wrist, reckon I got my wrist from my mum's side!) I've done manual labour jobs (removals), and my grip was probably just above average admittedly (I was getting the #1.5 to just below parallel with crappy setting). But other guys I know who never did manual labour, but also use the gym (including rugby players) a lot can't close a #1. Admittedly rugby doesn't require much grip strength, but considering the weights some of them use in the gym you'd probably except a stronger grip. Manual labour is definitely a factor, but it's hard to quantify how much really. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wobbler Posted August 20, 2016 Share Posted August 20, 2016 I got really big into grip stuff because I had a boring easy office job and needed something to do at my desk. I'd had some hg grippers for awhile, 100, 150, 200, and decided I needed to close the 200. Then get some Coc's and close the 2. Then get some blobs and a rolling thunder, hub, pinch block, vbar... Then get into bending. So the office job scenario I don't think is a good excuse, it's more just lack of interest and lack of exposure. But mostly, lack of desire for personal development. I'm not doing any of this to impress anyone but myself. Most people just think I'm weird, they don't get it. Or their personal development flavor is weight loss and looking good to impress everyone else, which doesn't really count in my book. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fist of Fury Posted August 20, 2016 Share Posted August 20, 2016 People are sitting still too much these days, thats the main problem. If you sit still all day how are you supposed to get a good squeeze at a dynamometer or a gripper. If these kids were actually active, playing sports, riding bikes, running etc their CNS would be much better. Today the kids are not doing this to the same extent as before, now their sports are computer games and when they're not bussy with that they do something else with their computer. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Hench Posted August 20, 2016 Author Share Posted August 20, 2016 12 hours ago, wobbler said: I got really big into grip stuff because I had a boring easy office job and needed something to do at my desk. I'd had some hg grippers for awhile, 100, 150, 200, and decided I needed to close the 200. Then get some Coc's and close the 2. Then get some blobs and a rolling thunder, hub, pinch block, vbar... Then get into bending. So the office job scenario I don't think is a good excuse, it's more just lack of interest and lack of exposure. But mostly, lack of desire for personal development. I'm not doing any of this to impress anyone but myself. Most people just think I'm weird, they don't get it. Or their personal development flavor is weight loss and looking good to impress everyone else, which doesn't really count in my book. So you don't think there is a correlation to manual labor and strength? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wobbler Posted August 20, 2016 Share Posted August 20, 2016 I didn't say that, I think there are a number of reasons and that one is so obvious I didn't mention it. Do you think that's the only reason? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Hench Posted August 20, 2016 Author Share Posted August 20, 2016 No I was just looking for clarification. I think the reduction in manual labor due to automation is the biggest factor but not the only factor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wobbler Posted August 20, 2016 Share Posted August 20, 2016 Definitely the first hurdle, but plenty of other issues to get to where things are at now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Rinderle Posted August 21, 2016 Share Posted August 21, 2016 They needed a study to determine men aren't as manly as in past generations? Skinny jeans. I rest my case. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anton.Torrella Posted August 21, 2016 Share Posted August 21, 2016 I try and keep my aura of virility active enough to immediately impregnate women within a 3 foot vicinity - if that ever wanes then I'd definitely need to check my manliness. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Trott Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 There is definitely an emerging tendency to look down on manual jobs which is ridiculous. I have deep respect for craftsman and people doing manual jobs. I am a teacher and train grip (along with hiking, running, climbing and generally being active) because I value strength and physical fitness highly. I come from a family of farmers and don't want to become a weakling. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MRabich Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 Manual labor jobs such as electrician, plumber, etc are also well paid jobs, if I could go back in time, I'd choose manual labor career, I'm a letter carrier. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanesaw Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 I completely believe that manual labor jobs increase grip strength and that people in general are getting weaker due to the lack of any type of physical activity. I have only been training grippers for a few months and started doing it because of the damage that my type of work does to my hands. I work a very physical job and I find it's helping the circulation in my hands thus causing less numbness and pain. I'm a pretty small guy at 5'7" and not heavy but I had no issues closing a #2 (108) when I first tried it. I am just a few mm from closing my 128 #2.5 which I know isn't a great feat for a lot of you guys but again I still haven't done any major type of grip training, just grab them when I get a chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bender Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 There are some strong words here, perhaps not accurate. Title should read “Grip test determines strength is on a decline”. Title “We’re not raising men” should read “We’re not raising physically strong people”. Statement “true masculinity” should read “a dated and no longer culturally critical component of masculinity”. The “Men are strong” or “Men must be strong” isn’t exactly true. Strong people are strong. There must be strong people to do strong things. Both of those statements are true. A man who doesn’t strength train is “feminized”? This creates a terrible dichotomy, having only two choices, between being strong or being a woman. Men come in all shapes and sizes, and there isn’t a cultural or social need to be strong. Failing to take an interest in strength and sport does not automatically qualify a male as being “feminine”. Just as a woman can be strong, while still being feminine; a man can be normal strength, while still being masculine. I am 100% for being strong, and it has nothing to do with me being a male. It's because I'm driven to see what my body can do, and I love having that strength in reserve, waiting for when I needed it. There are many women who feel the same way, and it doesn't make them masculine any more than it makes me masculine, it just makes us all 'strong'. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yan_Wei Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 10 minutes ago, bender said: There are some strong words here, perhaps not accurate. Title should read “Grip test determines strength is on a decline”. Title “We’re not raising men” should read “We’re not raising physically strong people”. Statement “true masculinity” should read “a dated and no longer culturally critical component of masculinity”. The “Men are strong” or “Men must be strong” isn’t exactly true. Strong people are strong. There must be strong people to do strong things. Both of those statements are true. A man who doesn’t strength train is “feminized”? This creates a terrible dichotomy, having only two choices, between being strong or being a woman. Men come in all shapes and sizes, and there isn’t a cultural or social need to be strong. Failing to take an interest in strength and sport does not automatically qualify a male as being “feminine”. Just as a woman can be strong, while still being feminine; a man can be normal strength, while still being masculine. I am 100% for being strong, and it has nothing to do with me being a male. It's because I'm driven to see what my body can do, and I love having that strength in reserve, waiting for when I needed it. There are many women who feel the same way, and it doesn't make them masculine any more than it makes me masculine, it just makes us all 'strong'. Valid point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Hench Posted August 23, 2016 Author Share Posted August 23, 2016 18 minutes ago, bender said: There are some strong words here, perhaps not accurate. Title should read “Grip test determines strength is on a decline”. Title “We’re not raising men” should read “We’re not raising physically strong people”. Statement “true masculinity” should read “a dated and no longer culturally critical component of masculinity”. The “Men are strong” or “Men must be strong” isn’t exactly true. Strong people are strong. There must be strong people to do strong things. Both of those statements are true. A man who doesn’t strength train is “feminized”? This creates a terrible dichotomy, having only two choices, between being strong or being a woman. Men come in all shapes and sizes, and there isn’t a cultural or social need to be strong. Failing to take an interest in strength and sport does not automatically qualify a male as being “feminine”. Just as a woman can be strong, while still being feminine; a man can be normal strength, while still being masculine. I am 100% for being strong, and it has nothing to do with me being a male. It's because I'm driven to see what my body can do, and I love having that strength in reserve, waiting for when I needed it. There are many women who feel the same way, and it doesn't make them masculine any more than it makes me masculine, it just makes us all 'strong'. I disagree. The article isn't just talking about strength it is talking about the qualities of the traditional man which is exactly what the definition of masculinity is. Grip strength was just a single measurement they used to show actual data vs perception. Masculinity has been on a decline and has been attacked continuously recently by SJW's with an agenda of bringing down the idea of masculinity. All the article is doing is showing evidence of it whether you believe it should be on a decline or not. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bender Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 (edited) If you change "masculinity" to "traditional masculinity", I agree with you 100%. As in "..the qualities of the traditional man which is exactly what the definition of traditional masculinity is". I also believe humans not having an outlet for physical aggression is doing more harm than good, and pretending that none of us are aggressive or seek power is only going to hurt us. We need to recognize that some of us need a powerful outlet to unleash our aggression, and it doesn't have much anything to do with being male or female. While internet SJWs are mostly internet trolls, there is a legitimate reason we need to stop applying ideals from the 1940's onto today's society. Robots will some day do the overwhelming majority of labor. Nobody needs strong hands to farm anymore, just a strong mind to program and fix the farming robots. Doing physical labor and having a powerful grip became male traits due to a social contract, not to deep rooted ideals of what it is to be male. The social contract is changing, as there isn't a true need anymore for physical strength. While I am not an SJW, I am in-tune with the winds of change. I'll fight to the death for our right to be strong and to express our bodies and masculinity, but also for the right of others to not be judged "not a man" for not choosing to lift weights or pursue a career that will one day be replaced by a machine. Also, it seems this conversation can't truly be had until the word "masculinity" is defined. It seems right now "physical strength" is being used interchangeably with "masculinity" while the two broad areas only overlap at one small spot on a ven diagram. On this point, this article (citing another article, citing a paper) was deliberately inflammatory, hoping to stir up support from the oppressed side of the SJW movement. For the record, the strongest grip I have ever recorded in the clinic was a female construction worker, and there was nothing masculine about her. A gorgeous woman. Very strong. Edit: This article is from "America's most widely read and influential magazine and web site for conservative news, commentary, and opinion". It's entertainment, to work up a select group of people, as is necessitated in pop-news. The initial paper has none of the judgmental or inflammatory spin to it, as is necessitated in science. Just the facts. http://www.jhandtherapy.org/article/S0894-1130(15)00212-4/fulltext Edited August 23, 2016 by bender ommision 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Hench Posted August 23, 2016 Author Share Posted August 23, 2016 Personally I feel that genetic traits play a larger role in masculinity than social construct. It is well known that hormones are what makes a key difference. Strength, muscularity, body hair, voice, etc. While environmental and social factors are a big role, genetics are a larger role. I'm not saying women can't be strong or even masculine, all I'm saying is the article is correct in their assertion that masculinity is on a decline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bender Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 I don't mean to be contentious, just that masculinity is very loosely defined again. I'd point out: Genetic traits play a larger role in physical strength than a social construct. The article is correct in the assertion that physical strength is on a decline. The paper also stated women's strength is on the decline too, does this mean women are getting less masculine? (or less strong?) ((or more feminine???)) The author ties the word "masculine" to the phrase "physical strength" and just rides with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Hench Posted August 23, 2016 Author Share Posted August 23, 2016 I don't agree with changing the definition of masculinity to fit a modern social construct. I suppose we will have to agree to disagree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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