"Structural" wrist curl pain?

[avasatu]

I was wondering if anyone shared the following plight I seem to be burdened with:

When I do "regular"  BB/DB (especially DB) wrist curls (palms facing straight up, over a bench or my knee, let's say), as soon as I get to intermediate weight, no matter how thoroughly I warm up, there is a very deep pain in both of my wrists. It's not an "injured" or "that's too heavy" kind of pain, as I could easily handle much more weight and have a great base of forearm strength, but it's more like a "don't move your wrist in this ROM" type of pain. It also doesn't appear to matter if I restrict the ROM to a certain range, as I have tried to do so through multiple different restricted ranges. It's like my wrists kind of aren't built to be loaded with that kind of vector.

Upon further experimenting, it seems to be caused by the fact that when I flex my wrists through a natural ROM, they want to flex heavily inward, sort of like the way they flex during a behind the back BB wrist curl, but maybe not so extreme.This same pain is present during things like table curls, which I suppose is entirely unsurprising, but I can still do things like preachers and spiders for some reason.

Does anyone else "suffer" from this? As of now things like traditional wrist curls and table curls are out of the question entirely. I have not tested with a thick handle, though. My current wrist flexor training is just block curls, which hammers them isometrically, and that's good enough for me for now, but I do wish to diversify soon.

 

[wobbler]

Do your tendons shift around uncomfortably? Is it sharp or a burn?

[avasatu]

I would say it feels like there's some shifting, yes. And it doesn't burn, but I would call it sharp in the sense that it's very acute and sudden, but dull in the sense that it's deep. It feels very close to injury type pain, but there is a difference I can't describe. 

[Alawadhi]

Better see a doctor then

[climber511]

Climber Curl.  I developed it to address a similar type issue that I (and many others) have.  You should of course get it checked out first but it could possibly be a solution.   Many people simply cannot work a completely suplinated wrist position for wrist curls or even regular straight bar curls without problems.

[Anthony C.]

Yep, it happens to me. I broke my left wrist when I was in intermediate school and that is the wrist that I have the problem with, doing wrist curls. I purchased a climber curl from Chris but unfortunately it still doesn't let me go too heavy.

I've found that using a ROM where my wrist stops at parallel to the floor instead of letting my hand go all the way down works okay, if I move very strictly.

The wrist wrench works my wrist better than curls.

[routesetter]

I have the same issue as @avasatu, with both wrist curls and reverse wrist curls. Not pain per se, but the motion feels "grindy" and not good -- consequently I also have to stay with much lighter weights than what my muscles can handle. For this reason I have been sticking with sledgehammer work to hit the wrists (I realize they are significantly different movements, but it seems to be working okay).

@climber511 could I get more information on the "climber curl"? A google search isn't turning anything up.

Anthony, do you think the Wrist Wrench works the wrist better than implements like the FBBC Crusher?

[Anthony C.]

2 hours ago, routesetter said:

I have the same issue as @avasatu, with both wrist curls and reverse wrist curls. Not pain per se, but the motion feels "grindy" and not good -- consequently I also have to stay with much lighter weights than what my muscles can handle. For this reason I have been sticking with sledgehammer work to hit the wrists (I realize they are significantly different movements, but it seems to be working okay).

@climber511 could I get more information on the "climber curl"? A google search isn't turning anything up.

Anthony, do you think the Wrist Wrench works the wrist better than implements like the FBBC Crusher?

I have a climber curl. It's an excellent device, just didn't seem to solve my problem. I would sell you mine, with the permission of @climber511 of course.

 

I do think that the wrist wrench works the wrist better than the crusher. I'm not saying that it's a better implement, as both are phenomenal. They just each focus on separate things.

In my opinion, the WW focuses on wrist strength with thick bar being the secondary.

Crusher focuses on thick bar strength with wrist being secondary. Both should be included in training.

[Geralt]

...and with Neutral grip chins and/or chin ups (as in underhand)?

Also, apart from the option Chris mentioned, which I am not further familiar with, you could benefit perhaps from these Globe Gripz. Completely different and more comfortable and portable add ons. 

[climber511]

12 minutes ago, Anthony C. said:

I have a climber curl. It's an excellent device, just didn't seem to solve my problem. I would sell you mine, with the permission of @climber511 of course.

 

I do think that the wrist wrench works the wrist better than the crusher. I'm not saying that it's a better implement, as both are phenomenal. They just each focus on separate things.

In my opinion, the WW focuses on wrist strength with thick bar being the secondary.

Crusher focuses on thick bar strength with wrist being secondary. Both should be included in training.

Of course you can sell it Anthony!  Something else I have found that helps me is doing wrist curls behind the back.  It hits differently and could possibly help with your wrist issues?

[Anthony C.]

18 minutes ago, climber511 said:

Of course you can sell it Anthony!  Something else I have found that helps me is doing wrist curls behind the back.  It hits differently and could possibly help with your wrist issues?

I've never tried those, believe it or not. I'll give them a shot with tomorrow's workout!

[avasatu]

Thanks for the very helpful responses, guys. Chris, could you PM me a picture and/or more details about the Climber Curl?

10 hours ago, Alawadhi said:

Better see a doctor then

I am very near 100% certain it's not an injury. It happens in both wrists, and I have never damaged them before.

4 hours ago, Anthony C. said:

Yep, it happens to me. I broke my left wrist when I was in intermediate school and that is the wrist that I have the problem with, doing wrist curls. I purchased a climber curl from Chris but unfortunately it still doesn't let me go too heavy.

I've found that using a ROM where my wrist stops at parallel to the floor instead of letting my hand go all the way down works okay, if I move very strictly.

The wrist wrench works my wrist better than curls.

I forgot to mention that! While my ROM can be forced above parallel to the floor, it takes a ton of effort. I think we are in the same boat. It's funny you mention the WW. A few months ago when I was working it, it was one of the best workouts I had ever had for the wrist. Unfortunately, it too left me with some uncomfortable sensations. I think, though, that if I trained it overhand, it would be perfectly fine. How do you train it?

1 hour ago, Geralt said:

...and with Neutral grip chins and/or chin ups (as in underhand)?

Also, apart from the option Chris mentioned, which I am not further familiar with, you could benefit perhaps from these Globe Gripz. Completely different and more comfortable and portable add ons. 

 

Nothing else bothers me except supinated wrist curls and table curls. It is a pretty strange phenomenon.

 

1 hour ago, climber511 said:

Of course you can sell it Anthony!  Something else I have found that helps me is doing wrist curls behind the back.  It hits differently and could possibly help with your wrist issues?

I'm also considering doing wrists AW style on the pulley machine with a few different types of handles. Behind the back wrist curls run into my butt and are tough to get into position for me, plus I haven't come up with a good way to do them one armed yet.

[avasatu]

4 hours ago, routesetter said:

I have the same issue as @avasatu, with both wrist curls and reverse wrist curls. Not pain per se, but the motion feels "grindy" and not good -- consequently I also have to stay with much lighter weights than what my muscles can handle. For this reason I have been sticking with sledgehammer work to hit the wrists (I realize they are significantly different movements, but it seems to be working okay).

@climber511 could I get more information on the "climber curl"? A google search isn't turning anything up.

Anthony, do you think the Wrist Wrench works the wrist better than implements like the FBBC Crusher?

I do a ton of sledgehammer work as well, but that doesn't hit the flexors.

[Anthony C.]

24 minutes ago, avasatu said:

I forgot to mention that! While my ROM can be forced above parallel to the floor, it takes a ton of effort. I think we are in the same boat. It's funny you mention the WW. A few months ago when I was working it, it was one of the best workouts I had ever had for the wrist. Unfortunately, it too left me with some uncomfortable sensations. I think, though, that if I trained it overhand, it would be perfectly fine. How do you train it?

 

I just do lifts....3-10 rep range. I try not to push it to failure

[avasatu]

Do you do them overhand or palms facing inward?

Edited August 2, 2016 by avasatu

[Anthony C.]

1 hour ago, avasatu said:

Do you do them overhand or palms facing inward?

Palms inward

[bender]

This sounds like instability, you may be unable to stabilize the joint, the joint is shifting, and you're getting unusual (and maybe dangerous) forces generated within the wrist.  Your body may be telling you to stop before you do damage.

I would add that this motion places a significant sheering force across the wrist joint, a force that the wrist isn't designed to generate or receive.  While many strength-trained or naturally-strong people may stabilize and tolerate this sheering force, I would assume many people would feel discomfort and instability with this movement. 

From an evolutionary-anthropology point of view, there is little reason you or anybody should be strong or stable in this motion. 

On the other hand, one of the great joys of strength training is to find something you are weak or un-skilled at, and becoming good it at.  Try stripping the weight back to where you feel strong and keeping the weights light for 6 months or so.  Teach your body to stabilize this force.  Add weight when you finally feel strong, but don't rush into it.  Think "neuromuscular re-education" instead of "strength".

For heavy work, try keeping the wrist motions more in-line with how your body works, like wrist curls from a dead-lift position or behind the back.  The hand and wrist are much more accustomed to hanging from a bar, or supporting a load down the length of the arm.  Again, this sheering force is more unique to the weight-room and not the real world. 

[avasatu]

I've come to the conclusion that it is not worth my time and energy to worry about this particular motion at this point in time. I'm going to try decline wrist curls with a more open grip, though, before I totally move on.