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Negatives and Holds........


Paul Markowski

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I alternate doing negatives and holds with my COCs. So one workout I concentrate on Negatives...the next Holds....also, are full closures each workout necessary or do you think that doing more negatives and holds, will ultimately lead to success????  What do you guys do????

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A few questions before I can give answers.

What is your current goal with grippers and what is the hardest gripper you have closed to date?

How many negatives are you doing? How long are they taking? What range are you going for (parallel or full)?

How many closes are you attempting (sets and reps)?

Are you seeing progression from what you are currently doing?

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Is your max close increasing? 

I believe full closures are necessary and ideally "beyond-the-range" closures are necessary even with negatives.  I have a slightly different philosophy toward negatives though.  My recommendation is to do negatives with a filed gripper that is only so hard that after you force it shut it pops open only about 1/8" or less.  You should ALMOST be able to hold it shut.  It should not drag your hand open.  Fight the gripper for about 3 seconds and then smoothly let the gripper out.  Repeat.  To maintain the quality of the rep you might have to switch out for a lighter gripper multiple times over a workout--which for me was usually only 8 to 10 negatives.  Sometimes by the 8th rep I was down to a filed HG200 :pinch If you can do many more than that, I would say you're not fighting each rep hard enough.  But the whole point, in my opinion, is that work is done through the range of motion where the gripper would be closed if it wasn't filed...the thing that makes it a negative is that had you attempted a regular close, it would have been a narrow miss.        

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Short answer: Don't do negatives.
Anecdote: I have never done negatives or holds. I practice wide and parallel set closes. I have made really good progress.

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Too many full closes aggravate my knuckles in a bad way, I'm with Cannon on negatives, nothing too far out of reach.

Holds I like to grind the handles a bit, sometimes that little lateral movement is what gets me a full close that's near my limit. That, and it seems to work extensors some, helps improve concentration on the muscles used in that position, and it just feels good to grind some handles.

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8 hours ago, John McCarter said:

A few questions before I can give answers.

What is your current goal with grippers and what is the hardest gripper you have closed to date?

How many negatives are you doing? How long are they taking? What range are you going for (parallel or full)?

How many closes are you attempting (sets and reps)?

Are you seeing progression from what you are currently doing?

John:

First, a bit about my background.  I was an avid powerlifter for about 15 years....best lift was the deadlift....I bought the COCs (#1, #2 and #3) about 10 years ago...used them for about a year...managed to close the #2 for a single rep.  Then I lost interest in crushing grip....was overtrained, etc....fast forward to about 40 days ago...I bought the COCs (from the Trainer all the way to #3...7 COCs in all).....I trained with the Trainer and the .5 and #1 for about a week....then I tried the #2...got a single with it....so, to date, I can close the #2 for a double....my goal is to close the #3......for negatives, I do 10 sets of a single rep for each set...I use both hands to get the gripper (#2.5) into position, which is not quite shut but very close....I then resist the handles from separating for as long as I can.....when I do full closes, I use the #2 and the #1.5 for multiple sets (about 4).....my progression has been steady BUT it is still very early in this comeback of mine....looks like my muscle memory took charge as I was able to close the #2 on my first try after only 1 week of training this time around.  Thanks for your input....

Edited by Paul Markowski
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8 hours ago, Cannon said:

Is your max close increasing? 

I believe full closures are necessary and ideally "beyond-the-range" closures are necessary even with negatives.  I have a slightly different philosophy toward negatives though.  My recommendation is to do negatives with a filed gripper that is only so hard that after you force it shut it pops open only about 1/8" or less.  You should ALMOST be able to hold it shut.  It should not drag your hand open.  Fight the gripper for about 3 seconds and then smoothly let the gripper out.  Repeat.  To maintain the quality of the rep you might have to switch out for a lighter gripper multiple times over a workout--which for me was usually only 8 to 10 negatives.  Sometimes by the 8th rep I was down to a filed HG200 :pinch If you can do many more than that, I would say you're not fighting each rep hard enough.  But the whole point, in my opinion, is that work is done through the range of motion where the gripper would be closed if it wasn't filed...the thing that makes it a negative is that had you attempted a regular close, it would have been a narrow miss.        

Cannon:

Thanks for the advice....I was wondering whether it was better to fight the handles during a negative until it forces your hand all the way open...or, as you say, to only let it force your fingers open to a small degree then to release after 3 seconds....will try that!

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8 hours ago, Squeezus said:

Short answer: Don't do negatives.
Anecdote: I have never done negatives or holds. I practice wide and parallel set closes. I have made really good progress.

Squeezus:

Do you use one of those hose clamps to keep the gripper at parallel?

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6 hours ago, wobbler said:

Too many full closes aggravate my knuckles in a bad way, I'm with Cannon on negatives, nothing too far out of reach.

Holds I like to grind the handles a bit, sometimes that little lateral movement is what gets me a full close that's near my limit. That, and it seems to work extensors some, helps improve concentration on the muscles used in that position, and it just feels good to grind some handles.

Wobbler:

Interesting...I too love the feeling of grinding the handles during my holds....when do you release you "holds"???  Once the handles get far enough apart that it is no longer a true "hold"???

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Holds, yeah once it opens up, let it go.

Coin holds are great too. Put a penny in between the handles, or I actually like a paperclip because the handles can still completely touch. Hold as long as you can, once the object drops try to close all the way with no assistance. That one also requires a lot of concentration and effort.

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Wobbler:

I like that idea (coin or paperclip)...will try it tomorrow.

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Coin hold has been around for awhile, but I might take credit for the paperclip and trying for a close after it drops.

This is all stuff you should try if regular reps aren't helping you progress anymore, and/or cause a bad kind of pain or soreness.

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11 hours ago, Paul Markowski said:

Squeezus:

Do you use one of those hose clamps to keep the gripper at parallel?

No, that is called "choked" grippers and I have never messed with that either. I simply get the gripper, squeeze it down to parallel with the help of my offhand, then close it one-handed from there allowing it to open only to parallel before I begin each subsequent rep.

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I wouldn't mess with negatives, you'll make great gains by just staying consistent with rep/volume schemes. Negatives are more for highly trained hands that need a boost when conventional training becomes less effective.

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Thanks for the input Jvance!  Will give it a try.

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12 minutes ago, Squeezus said:

No, that is called "choked" grippers and I have never messed with that either. I simply get the gripper, squeeze it down to parallel with the help of my offhand, then close it one-handed from there allowing it to open only to parallel before I begin each subsequent rep.

I see...great advice on this board....glad I found it!

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I am training in the same way as Squeezus and it is going well. I can train three times a week whereas when I was doing longer holds (penny holds) I had to cut down to twice a week. Negatives seems pretty sketchy to me with grippers. I'd leave them until you are pretty advanced and can judge the effort better. It seems pretty easy to injure yourself.

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Good points Liam.  Thanks.

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