Chicago FitExpo - Low Attendance Discussion

[Eric Roussin]

The Viking Visegrip Challenge is taking place at the Chicago FitExpo on June 26th. Contest info can be found here: http://www.thefitexpo.com/TFECH_grip.asp . Currently only five competitors are signed up, of which three or four don’t live anywhere close to the Midwest. I’m wondering if anyone has any thoughts on why turnout is so low, considering it’s contested in a venue that can expose thousands of fitness-minded individuals to grip sport? I have my opinions, which I’ve shared with Odd, but I’d like to hear other opinions which I could possibly relay to him as well.

So, why do you think registration numbers are low?

Is it the fact that it is a single open weight class?

Is it the events being contested?

Is it the entry fee?

Is it a perception that you need to be an elite-level grip sport athlete in order to compete in this contest?

Is it because you didn’t even know the contest was being held?

Or is it more generally for many of the reasons described in the NAGS Championship attendance thread (e.g. cost of travel, time away, etc.)?

Something else?

[acorn]

Even if I lived close I would not likely do this comp. My main issue is the events. The only event I would do would be the Little big horn. I seriously dislike the rest of the events he has except for the Axle DL, and I generally do poorly at that anyway due to long time back issues.

With the RT there are known inconsistent results from one handle to the next. Enough that we took it off the lists.

With the Silver Bullet, same thing From one contest to the next a different gripper will likely be a different closing poundage. In effect making a time record list not fully comparable and inconsistent.

With the IM Pinch block, I hate the surface of every one I've tried. Way too slippery for consistent results.

These are my opinions anyway.

- Aaron

[Eric Roussin]

Thanks for the feedback Aaron.

Regarding the RT, Silver Bullet, and Pinch Block, even if there is variation or the texture isn't the greatest, on the day of the contest, all athletes compete with the same equipment. None of these lifts count for NAGS records, so unless someone is trying to break an open class record that would be recognized by IronMind, I don't personally see this as a big deal.

Question for everyone: Does the simple fact that this is not a NAGS-sanctioned contest (i.e. lifts won't be recognized in the Top 100 database) act as a deterrent?

[acorn]

11 minutes ago, Eric Roussin said:

Thanks for the feedback Aaron.

Regarding the RT, Silver Bullet, and Pinch Block, even if there is variation or the texture isn't the greatest, on the day of the contest, all athletes compete with the same equipment. None of these lifts count for NAGS records, so unless someone is trying to break an open class record that would be recognized by IronMind, I don't personally see this as a big deal.

Question for everyone: Does the simple fact that this is not a NAGS-sanctioned contest (i.e. lifts won't be recognized in the Top 100 database) act as a deterrent?

I agree that it is less of an issue for a single contest, but still makes the results of said contest an island that really cannot be accurately compared to other contests running same events. That is my beef.

- Aaron

[Bryan Hunsaker]

I'm actually competing in the Anaheim contest Odd is putting on in August, but it happens to align with business, anyway, so I can write it off...which helps.  I actually really like the events he has like the DO Axle and RT because I fare better at those, than some of the pinching events.  I really just want to get a competition under my belt.  That specific competition is also a better fit for dragging my family, than Chicago would be.  So, not that Chicago has any issues, per se, but Anaheim is just a better fit for me.

I had asked a question on another feed that likely got lost in the shuffle - Is there not a lot of cooperation with Odd?  He seems to put on solid events and has great global participation, and with as small as "grip" is, I'd think we'd want to tie into each other as much as possible. @Eric Roussin

[Tom Scibelli]

8 minutes ago, Bryan Hunsaker said:

I'm actually competing in the Anaheim contest Odd is putting on in August, but it happens to align with business, anyway, so I can write it off...which helps.  I actually really like the events he has like the DO Axle and RT because I fare better at those, than some of the pinching events.  I really just want to get a competition under my belt.  That specific competition is also a better fit for dragging my family, than Chicago would be.  So, not that Chicago has any issues, per se, but Anaheim is just a better fit for me.

I had asked a question on another feed that likely got lost in the shuffle - Is there not a lot of cooperation with Odd?  He seems to put on solid events and has great global participation, and with as small as "grip" is, I'd think we'd want to tie into each other as much as possible. @Eric Roussin

I think Odd mostly works with ironmind on his competitions, but I'd be interested to hear if @Jedd Johnson has ever talked to him about his competitions or even posting on the gripboard. 

[Jeff Parker]

I live north east of Detroit so not a bad drive for me.  I didn't know anything about the contest, not sure why I missed it.  Where was it advertised?  I'm not on any social media except here.  I'm not very good at thickbar so not sure I would even hit the opening weights, are they listed somewhere?  The rest seem like good events.  

I'm not a fan of two of the same type of lifts in a contest, not sure why both axle and rolling thunder would ever be in the same contest, it clearly favors a thick bar specialist.  I'm pretty good at pinch but I'd still not want to see two pinch events in one contest.  

If I knew about it ahead of time I could see myself competing next year.  

How come only Ironmind equipment?  I understand they are a sponsor, but they are not the end all be all of grip equipment, I'd like to see some other brands represented in his contests.  

Good luck to all competing!

[Eric Roussin]

18 minutes ago, Bryan Hunsaker said:

I'm actually competing in the Anaheim contest Odd is putting on in August, but it happens to align with business, anyway, so I can write it off...which helps.  I actually really like the events he has like the DO Axle and RT because I fare better at those, than some of the pinching events.  I really just want to get a competition under my belt.  That specific competition is also a better fit for dragging my family, than Chicago would be.  So, not that Chicago has any issues, per se, but Anaheim is just a better fit for me.

I had asked a question on another feed that likely got lost in the shuffle - Is there not a lot of cooperation with Odd?  He seems to put on solid events and has great global participation, and with as small as "grip" is, I'd think we'd want to tie into each other as much as possible. @Eric Roussin

Though I asked about the Chicago contest, I could have asked the same about Anaheim or San Jose. Generally, these grip contests don't get large turnouts. But I don't fully understand why. Though these fitness expos aren't as large as the Arnold Classic, they still attract thousands of people. I'm afraid with continued low turnouts, Odd will stop bothering to organize these contests, and I think it would be a shame. So I'd like to try to make some suggestions to improve the contests to make them more appealing. He seemed a bit surprised last year when I told him that be might want to consider varying the types of lifts contested. Last year, two of the four events were thick bar (RT and Axle), making it great for someone like me, but not very appealing to those whose thick bar strength is a weakness. I think he took this comment to heart, because this year there are more events that test different aspects of grip strength (though RT and Axle are still in the mix). Odd has great thick bar strength, which may be a reason he likes to feature these events.

Odd's contests need to move quickly, due to a tight schedule and the need to make things appealing to spectators. I don't think he will ever run a contest according to NAGS rules.

I've been to two of his contests so far -- at the LA FitExpo in 2014 and the Chicago FitExpo last year -- and I'll be going to the Chicago event again in a couple of weeks. Definitely a different feel to these events, but a fun time nonetheless.

[Eric Roussin]

24 minutes ago, Jeff Parker said:

I live north east of Detroit so not a bad drive for me.  I didn't know anything about the contest, not sure why I missed it.  Where was it advertised?  I'm not on any social media except here.  I'm not very good at thickbar so not sure I would even hit the opening weights, are they listed somewhere?  The rest seem like good events.  

I'm not a fan of two of the same type of lifts in a contest, not sure why both axle and rolling thunder would ever be in the same contest, it clearly favors a thick bar specialist.  I'm pretty good at pinch but I'd still not want to see two pinch events in one contest.  

If I knew about it ahead of time I could see myself competing next year.  

How come only Ironmind equipment?  I understand they are a sponsor, but they are not the end all be all of grip equipment, I'd like to see some other brands represented in his contests.  

Good luck to all competing!

Odd's contests are primarily advertised on IronMind.

The opening weights will be agreed upon by the competitors in attendance.

Odd obviously has a good thing going with IronMind. And the prizes sponsored by IronMind are awesome. I personally don't really care which equipment is contested in his events, though I prefer when various aspects of grip are tested. The simple fact that he's putting on grip contests in venues with this exposure makes me want to go. No one else is currently putting on grip contests in places that have better exposure in North America.

[Andrew P]

When I looked into into going a few years back I recall the axle opening at 350. Being that I was pulling around 315 I didn't see any point in spending time away from family to pull a zero.

Also it's a lot of thick-bar and wide pinching. That contest is more or less perfect for exploiting my weaknesses. 

[Eric Roussin]

^I'm happy that the opening weights are now selected in consultation with the competitors. I agree that an opening weight above your max would be a big turn-off.

[Andrew P]

45 minutes ago, Eric Roussin said:

Odd's contests are primarily advertised on IronMind.

The opening weights will be agreed upon by the competitors in attendance.

Odd obviously has a good thing going with IronMind. And the prizes sponsored by IronMind are awesome. I personally don't really care which equipment is contested in his events, though I prefer when various aspects of grip are tested. The simple fact that he's putting on grip contests in venues with this exposure makes me want to go. No one else is currently putting on grip contests in places that have better exposure in North America.

A lot of these discussions were having lately comes down to money. Putting on large events like this are simply out of the budget for us (besides Sorinex and Ironmind) unless we find a sponsor outside of the sport.

Heck, I would bet you even if we pooled the resources of all the gripboard sponsors together other than those two we wouldn't even be close to putting on a show at a venue like that or the Arnold. 

[climber511]

I worked at the Arnold Classic for over a decade at the Olympic Lifting venue and went all over the place there watching things that mostly did not interest me or trying to sell me things I did not want.  I built platforms, loaded, weighed lifters in, generally just helped run the thing at a low level.  I am so burned out on the huge crowd and general atmosphere of sell, sell, sell and very limited things targeted towards people like myself.  I simply have no interest in attending the big shows anymore. 

[Eric Roussin]

1 minute ago, Andrew P said:

A lot of these discussions were having lately comes down to money. Putting on large events like this are simply out of the budget for us (besides Sorinex and Ironmind) unless we find a sponsor outside of the sport.

Heck, I would bet you even if we pooled the resources of all the gripboard sponsors together other than those two we wouldn't even be close to putting on a show at a venue like that or the Arnold. 

You're probably right! But this is why I think it's important to support these contests, even though they may not be perfect, before they disappear. No other contests in North America come close to being seen by as many people.

[Eric Roussin]

3 minutes ago, climber511 said:

I worked at the Arnold Classic for over a decade at the Olympic Lifting venue and went all over the place there watching things that mostly did not interest me or trying to sell me things I did not want.  I built platforms, loaded, weighed lifters in, generally just helped run the thing at a low level.  I am so burned out on the huge crowd and general atmosphere of sell, sell, sell and very limited things targeted towards people like myself.  I simply have no interest in attending the big shows anymore. 

I can understand this. But for those who don't mind the atmosphere, I think these events are a great opportunity to expose grip sport to people who are into strength. Now I realize people who are into strength may be a minority of the people who attend these shows, but it still attracts some. If this is not believed to be the case, I don't think there's much point in talking about pooling money together to get a booth at one of these Expos.

[climber511]

No way to probably know this but how many new people entered into grip and did a competition after watching one of these events?  The exposure is great but what results did it achieve as to growth of the sport?  This is not meant as a negative so don't go that direction please.  What things that have been done, are doing. or are thinking of doing etc "work" as to bringing people into the game?  And why might that be?

[Eric Roussin]

There's no way to know exactly what impact these events are having on actually growing the sport. Maybe they aren't really growing it. But exposure is at least increasing. If money is ever going to come into the sport, greater exposure will be required. If there aren't enough people taking part in these contests, they will no longer be held, and these exposure opportunities will disappear.

[Andrew P]

Agree I enjoyed seeing the Mighty Mitts and went 2 years for the show. 

[KapMan]

I guess on the outside looking in, no one understands whats going on. It's not dynamic and it tends to just be hard to watch.  I think people would get a better "grip" on grip if they tried out what the sport had to offer. Even if they do not compete, the fact that they tried some stuff and told their friends is a good thing.

[jvance]

1 hour ago, Eric Roussin said:

I can understand this. But for those who don't mind the atmosphere, I think these events are a great opportunity to expose grip sport to people who are into strength. Now I realize people who are into strength may be a minority of the people who attend these shows, but it still attracts some. If this is not believed to be the case, I don't think there's much point in talking about pooling money together to get a booth at one of these Expos.

Really never understood the lack of interest in strength.... Aside from getting huge and swole. Our culture places too high a priority on aesthetics - so much that looking strong is valued much higher than being strong.

 

As much as I like promoting grip, it irritates me when people ask "why would you need more grip strength"... Are you kidding me???? I've been asked this more than a few times. Off track here I know - but it's sad as a culture when we can't get more than five people to show up for a big stage contest. 

 

Meanwhile 10,000 people are lined up to get a selfie with some roided up bodybuilder. Sad.

 

my input is get the challenge booths going, throw in some carrots for the weaker guys, but let people actually get their hands on implements. Love what Con Cret and GNC are doing with their booths! Wade's gotta bring a blob that somebody besides himself can lift tho lol. Not sure if anyone else picked up the one in LA.

[canthar]

Agreed @jvance .

Aside from some kind of spectacle when need people to see there is an entry point. That at an intermediate to advanced level they will be able to do things that most other people cannot.

 

On a practical note just at a beginner level it will have an impact on a persons day to day life and will definitely influence sport performance. 

[JHenze646]

This is the first time I remember hearing of this event.

I generally don't follow the fit-expos. They are usually out west and are not geared to low-level grip athletes like myself.

Have they had big turnouts in the past?

Why are those athlete not returning?

[Eric Roussin]

38 minutes ago, JHenze646 said:

This is the first time I remember hearing of this event.

I generally don't follow the fit-expos. They are usually out west and are not geared to low-level grip athletes like myself.

Have they had big turnouts in the past?

Why are those athlete not returning?

The turnouts have never been huge. Maybe 15 people for one of the LA Fit Expos? Many of the same competitors return for these events. All of them are people who train at Odd's gym (e.g. Martins Licis). 

The FitExpos started on the west coast with LA and San Jose, but then Anaheim was added (I think this was the order), and Chicago was added last year. This year there's also a FitExpo in Ft. Lauderdale, but a grip contest has not yet been announced.

[Hubgeezer]

I kept in contact with Odd Haugen for over 6 years, 2004-2010, trying to keep him interested in grip. I met him at the first grip contest I entered in March 2004, where he was a referee for the contest. In October of 2010, in a garage in San Bernardino California, one day after a medical procedure on his neck, he came darn close to breaking the Axle DL record at the time, low 500's. That's where I heard about his plans for a grip contest at the LA Fit Expo. Back then, he was very open to ideas. Not so much any more. Part of it is consistency, part of it is having implements that are easy to have on hand, part of it is that he has a Strongman bias, part of it is the "show" of a large venue, part of it is what he is good at, and sure part of it is IronMInd's involvement.

I will say that he manages to get people with Strongman backgrounds that would never go near a grip contest participating regularly.

I have competed in all 5 San Jose grip contests, the only Anaheim one to date (I think there has only been one so far), and except for the Viking Fishing Pole in 2014, zero of the 6 LA Fit Expo contests. I watched or helped with the first 5 LA Fit Expos, did not attend last year. So, 11 of those contests I have been present.

In general, the crowd watching the "MAS Wrestling" is more enthusiastic and larger than those watching the grip contest. He does a good job mixing the two throughout the day. They have relatively decent emcees at times.

To me, the audience is sizably larger when there is a Mark Felix or a Mike Burke present. When guys like that are not there, it's 75% friends and family in San Jose.

I think of "LA" as a higher class of competitors, and it usually is. Heck, one year, the Axle opener was 396. Recently, it's been 308 pounds.

I just love that Fishing Pole. It is a killer implement, unique, and a good visual. I think it's been limited to LA, but I could be wrong. Odd's whole point on that was to have a dramatic visual.

One year where they had a Thomas Inch Dumbbell for reps as the closing event, lots of audience members came forward to give it a try.

The San Jose contest about three weeks ago may have been the most enjoyable grip contest I was ever part of. My performance sucked. But there were unknowns doing amazing things, ladies in THEIR LATE 70s COMPETING (regular gals who trained together for the contest), and a mild mannered virtually unknown who has participated in most of the San Jose contests and some of the LA contests who won, defeating Clay Edgin and Martins Licis. That was really cool. It wasn't like when Mike Burke had that freaky multiple world record day in LA, it was more a "common man" (and women) enjoyment that made you feel good about Life.

And there were more participants at the San Jose contest than were in the most recent Grip Nationals.

The participants always have a good time. Family members tend to like going to something like this rather than hanging out in a small gym or someone's house. They can watch you, then walk around see other things, come back. The people watching portion of the contestants this time was truly fun.

 

Eric, I doubt if I answered any of your questions. The most concerning thing I see is that "Chicago" has very few participants. I believe that Odd is so committed to this MAS Wrestling that the grip contests in some ways keep the MAS activities going along. I don't think LA or San Jose are in any danger of being dropped.

Edited June 10, 2016 by Hubgeezer

[Scott Styles]

This is a forty-five minute drive from my house. Your post is the first I heard of the expo, let alone the grip contest.

Those weights are going to be too heavy for most, they certainly rule me out.

I have to wonder how many people want to spend a summer weekend crowded into a convention center watching a bunch of people hold a gripper shut or pick up something attached to a loading pin. I like grip and that sounds boring.