Contest equipment questions

[acorn]

So it seems everyone lately has some opinions on how we should be doing things differently to get more interest and participation in the sport. I would love to hear some thoughts regarding equipment. While I love all my comp gear and do my best to design, modify and build better gear to test with every year, I would love to hear what some of you other folks think could make a grip contest better equipment wise. Better as in easier to run, more streamlined, more interesting to watch, whatever. You tell me. Would love to hear some new ideas. I know certainly have a few for new equipment designs that may fit some of these areas but as is often the case they would not be cheaper or simpler than existing ways we test the different aspects of grip in a contest. Now is your chance to speak up.

Your comments may help spark ideas for the next generation of contest equipment.

- Aaron

Edited May 27, 2016 by acorn

[anwnate]

I've a number of ideas...but the don't all jive with the "easier" or "more interesting to watch."

Crush.  Judging would be so much easier if we had a light up system.  It would be even cooler if the was a mod that work on existing grippers.  Barring that, replacing current grippers with light ups would be fine.  Hell...most of us invested in beta. ..then vhs...then dvds.  So existing grippers will turn into collector's items or  training devices...better that than failing to move forward. 

Plus...a crowd can actually see something light up...so it could be more audience friendly.  Suspense!  Will the light go on?...not, will the ref bear in close then make a signal.   ATM I'm ignoring dyanometers until current issues are cleared up.

Pinch.  Figure out a way to get the best of both worlds.  Adjustability and ease of use.  I've no suggestions in mind...just what I'd like to see happen.

I'd like to see the support aspect of grip move from the Axle...to something both hand size neutral and (frankly) more grip based. 

Two things...I'm health compromised (heart) and have chronic problem (back)...so there is no small amount of self interest involved in finding an alternative to the Axle.  However... I can hold wayyy more as a static hold, than the 350lb PR Lift on the Axle.  Why are we testing overall strength when it's called Grip-sport?

That said...watching Andrew's Axle was ONE of the many highlights of Gripmas in 2015.  Watching someone fling heavy weights off the floor is much more interesting... even awe-inspiring for spectators.  ATM I can't reconcile the two issues.  Additionally. ..that still doesn't address handsize issues.  Could an "Adjustable thickbar sleeve" be created for the traditional Axle event?...AND have the lift be more like a rack pull/hold?  Yup.

 Will it ever happen?  I doubt it...since it seems to be so "prestigious."  Make no mistake though...as Awesome as Durniat is (and yes I understand he's backed off of grip.)...he's not gonna compete on the Axle with very large handed strongmen.  Handsize is a significant advantage for most grip events...I'd like to see as much negated as possible.

Well @acorn, not a ton of suggestions for you...but certainly a grip "perspective." 

 

[KapMan]

1 hour ago, anwnate said:

 

Crush.  Judging would be so much easier if we had a light up system.  It would be even cooler if the was a mod that work on existing grippers.  Barring that, replacing current grippers with light ups would be fine.  Hell...most of us invested in beta. ..then vhs...then dvds.  So existing grippers will turn into collector's items or  training devices...better that than failing to move forward. 

 

 

This is easy I think. A 1 or 2 light system (for two lanes) could be used.  I think a contact ring around the handle connected to the light system would be cool. Maybe a bit cumbersome though. The contact sleeve sensor would be where the two ends close ping! a light comes on.

 

1 hour ago, anwnate said:

Pinch.  Figure out a way to get the best of both worlds.  Adjustability and ease of use.  I've no suggestions in mind...just what I'd like to see happen.

I'd like to see the support aspect of grip move from the Axle...to something both hand size neutral and (frankly) more grip based. 

Two things...I'm health compromised (heart) and have chronic problem (back)...so there is no small amount of self interest involved in finding an alternative to the Axle.  However... I can hold wayyy more as a static hold, than the 350lb PR Lift on the Axle.  Why are we testing overall strength when it's called Grip-sport?

That said...watching Andrew's Axle was ONE of the many highlights of Gripmas in 2015.  Watching someone fling heavy weights off the floor is much more interesting... even awe-inspiring for spectators.  ATM I can't reconcile the two issues.  Additionally. ..that still doesn't address handsize issues.  Could an "Adjustable thickbar sleeve" be created for the traditional Axle event?...AND have the lift be more like a rack pull/hold?  Yup.

 

The hand neutral thing bugs me a little, whats fair for you definitely isn't fair for someone else I get that part, but everyone should be training different widths anyways IMO. What we could do is use something like the flask and make aluminum face plates for that device and just pin them on using a longer pins. @Squeezus Your thoughts on that?

I agree that there are implements other then the axle for use. FBBC has a whole line of crushers we could choose from, not to mention the old stand by the RT. That being said I suggested to Andrew about making the crushers interchangeable like the country crush handle. By the way your RT farmers walk is simply brilliant! We need more stuff like that, even holds for time on those devices. Maybe one of our tinker bells could make a adjustable thick bar clone? Maybe promoters could consider thinking outside the box as well, Ah la Double Barrel Couple Crush, Ah La RT walks. Stuff like that. I personally enjoy odd object lifting, like the tractor weight at James place or the Dino egg someone brought to the southern squeeze. I feel some events do not need to be from the same selection that is on the leader boards.

 

Edited May 27, 2016 by KapMan

[wobbler]

I made a button battery led prototype light up "system" (it was really just tape and wires) that works on heavy grips or anything with a painted spring, attach near top of handles. Check handle to handle with a multimeter, if it's not electrically connected it would work. Coc's or most with unpainted springs were connected so it wouldn't work.

If you got fancy you could file one handle, insulate the contact and build back up with something to original size, then rate it.

Also thought about some sort of thin contact paper that would leave a mark when they touched. That would be super easy.

[Mikael Siversson]

Worth keeping in mind perhaps that the introduction of the Euro in the US was simply because the implement had been made standard in the UK and Sweden (and not because everyone in the US instantly started raving about it). There is little suggesting UK, Finland, Russia and Sweden will drop the Euro regardless of what is done in the US (as the support for David Horne and all the work he has done is very strong outside of the US and rightfully so). If you want to compare yourselves against the best in Europe in the pinch you have no choice other than using whatever the rest of the world is using.

 

[climber511]

1.  As you all know I dislike torsion Spring Grippers and have stated the reasons until you'll all sick of listening.  That said a light system would solve at least one of the problems.  Getting rid of the V shape and going to adjustable parallel handles would solve all my other issues.  I still have the grip machine with the cable handle and light system out in the garage - It would be easy enough to make up a higher quality system that could easily be standardized - and you can NOT cheat with the thing!  Setting would be a thing of the past as would any questions about closed or not closed.  A pure crush test.

2.  Pinch - as you know I like the Euro but I have some ideas I may try out in the future.  Maybe interchangeable widths rather than adjustable - I have some thoughts rattling around in my head I need to put in practice when I get some money ahead for steel.  Keeping the Euro look, design, size, material, and tilt ability so that records etc can be maintained but width changes can be almost instantaneous - challenging but possible??  I'm thinking of something  - we'll see.

3.  Axle - how many of you remember the "Fair Bar" idea?  Being in the same boat as Nate with a bad back and heart issues - I'd like to see an alternative to the heavy weights used.  But really all of my experimenting doesn't show that linear correlation between hand size and bar size that I "think" should happen.  Oh sure it happens at the extremes but after that it falls into palm size/ finger length ratios and stuff.  Plus it's a good visual event for spectators.  I guess it's a personal problem I need to figure out.  I know for Gripmas I'm thinking Tips Tester instead or Axle maybe - it's pretty hand size neutral and a good finger strength test - maybe a better pure finger test than Axle is.  It's also a lift that starts out "tall" and takes out the low back issues pretty well.  Gil and I have talked a little about this idea.  Rolling Thunders vary way too much - something like Crushers perhaps but the hand size snake keeps rearing its head still - I haven't had any luck thinking up anything on Fat bar.  the David Horne Adj one hand items are a start but not quite there for me.  Bummer.

4.  I think different promoters have the odd implement thing covered pretty well.  There's all kinds of weird stuff being used here and there - which is fun.

5.  I still think Wrist Strength tests are underutilized in competitions here - the Brits are doing better than we have in the past - I like the hammer rotation event being done in Nationals this year.  I'd like to see some sort of Wrist test become more of a standard in Grip Comps.

[JHenze646]

22 minutes ago, Mikael Siversson said:

Worth keeping in mind perhaps that the introduction of the Euro in the US was simply because the implement had been made standard in the UK and Sweden (and not because everyone in the US instantly started raving about it). There is little suggesting UK, Finland, Russia and Sweden will drop the Euro regardless of what is done in the US (as the support for David Horne and all the work he has done is very strong outside of the US and rightfully so). If you want to compare yourselves against the best in Europe in the pinch you have no choice other than using whatever the rest of the world is using.

 

The challege with the euro is the base weight which is two heavy for some classes in one hand events and the time required to change widths. You have competed in and hosted grip comps. Do you see any adjustments that might address these issues?

[Mikael Siversson]

5 minutes ago, JHenze646 said:

The challege with the euro is the base weight which is two heavy for some classes in one hand events and the time required to change widths. You have competed in and hosted grip comps. Do you see any adjustments that might address these issues?

Last time I competed was in July and the Euro pinch was not much slower of an event than any of the others. We went through it one width at a time. If you don't then yes it will take some extra time for sure.

Would be easy enough to have a second set for weaker individuals in the 1HP with a bar in plastic (eg pvc) rather than steel, lightweight spacers and lockers of plastic. Would not be as tight as using proper steel lockers but it would reduce the weight a lot and cater for more people.

 

[anwnate]

Worth keeping in mind perhaps that the introduction of the Euro in the US was simply because the implement had been made standard in the UK and Sweden (and not because everyone in the US instantly started raving about it). There is little suggesting UK, Finland, Russia and Sweden will drop the Euro regardless of what is done in the US (as the support for David Horne and all the work he has done is very strong outside of the US and rightfully so). If you want to compare yourselves against the best in Europe in the pinch you have no choice other than using whatever the rest of the world is using.

 

It's worth keeping in mind...

that a discussion about a man's brainchild, doesn't equate to bashing of that same man.  David Horne IS grip...but that doesn't stop him from improving his own products.  He's an innovator who IS responsible for Gripsport on the other side of the pond...at least.

That said.  Neither David, or his creations are sacrosanct.  Attempts at improving any known product should not be considered disrespectful to the creator.  In an effort to increase numbers here in the U.S., there has been a movement to create a more streamlined entry into Gripsport.

Can Americans be annoying?  Sure ...why not?  Are we a somewhat impatient people who tend to prefer quick scoring games over Soccer?   Yup.

In a couple of threads recently, you seem to take any comment about the Euro very personally. It also seems that you feel this forum is thereby attacking David Horne.   The extent of which this shows is a little bit odd.

I couldn't find a reference to the rest of the world dropping the Euro, but if some day, an apparatus from Russia or Australia or China...or the U.S., proves demonstratively superior to the Euro...then I imagine it will become the new standard...until it's improved upon.

Isn't that how it's supposed to work?

[wobbler]

Adjustable euro - milled plates with different widths. 12 to 3 o clock is one width, 3 to 6 is another, etc. Roll it to change.

[climber511]

Just now, wobbler said:

Adjustable euro - milled plates with different widths. 12 to 3 o clock is one width, 3 to 6 is another, etc. Roll it to change.

That idea was brought up before -but I can't remember if it was carried through or not.  It must not have been or I'm sure we'd all have seen it.  Probably not cheap to make but sounds like it would work well??  It would address the different weight for different reps issue also.  It would only give 4 possible choices though and more that that are often used.  Still a good idea.

[anwnate]

3 minutes ago, climber511 said:

That idea was brought up before -but I can't remember if it was carried through or not.  It must not have been or I'm sure we'd all have seen it.  Probably not cheap to make but sounds like it would work well??  It would address the different weight for different reps issue also.  It would only give 4 possible choices though and more that that are often used.  Still a good idea.

That is a very cool idea.  Andrew recently made a pair of 45's with four different textures.  Frkn brilliant.  I wish I had came up with either of those ideas.

[Mikael Siversson]

36 minutes ago, anwnate said:

It's worth keeping in mind...

that a discussion about a man's brainchild, doesn't equate to bashing of that same man.  David Horne IS grip...but that doesn't stop him from improving his own products.  He's an innovator who IS responsible for Gripsport on the other side of the pond...at least.

That said.  Neither David, or his creations are sacrosanct.  Attempts at improving any known product should not be considered disrespectful to the creator.  In an effort to increase numbers here in the U.S., there has been a movement to create a more streamlined entry into Gripsport.

Can Americans be annoying?  Sure ...why not?  Are we a somewhat impatient people who tend to prefer quick scoring games over Soccer?   Yup.

In a couple of threads recently, you seem to take any comment about the Euro very personally. It also seems that you feel this forum is thereby attacking David Horne.   The extent of which this shows is a little bit odd.

I couldn't find a reference to the rest of the world dropping the Euro, but if some day, an apparatus from Russia or Australia or China...or the U.S., proves demonstratively superior to the Euro...then I imagine it will become the new standard...until it's improved upon.

Isn't that how it's supposed to work?

I think you need to consider the 'first mover advantage' here. Do you think the 'snatch' event in Olympic lifting will be replaced by a new one that may have some additional benefits? Highly unlikely because of the 'first mover advantage' enjoyed by the snatch. Its there, established and has a long history. If we replace 'standard' event on a more-or-less regular basis in grip it will severely water down 'world records' and I think you will find enduring resistance replacing long-standing events for the latest fashion in grip.

Edited May 28, 2016 by Mikael Siversson

[wobbler]

4 widths until you index one plate only

[JHenze646]

1 hour ago, Mikael Siversson said:

Last time I competed was in July and the Euro pinch was not much slower of an event than any of the others. We went through it one width at a time. If you don't then yes it will take some extra time for sure.

Would be easy enough to have a second set for weaker individuals in the 1HP with a bar in plastic (eg pvc) rather than steel, lightweight spacers and lockers of plastic. Would not be as tight as using proper steel lockers but it would reduce the weight a lot and cater for more people.

 

Lots of sports have flights of athletes. Perhaps we need to view widths in this manner.

[JHenze646]

5 minutes ago, wobbler said:

4 widths until you index one plate only

I am thinking of this as a sort of gauge, correct? Wouldn't the widths of steel change the center of balance back and forth?

[wobbler]

By a couple mm, sure.

[KapMan]

4 hours ago, Tommy J. said:

While i guess im still stuck on simply wanting to see the sport grow in general, i cant say i believe that the reason gripsport hasnt grow is due to the lack of equipment.

meaning- a new grip implement likely wouldnt do anything to boost the sports overall numbers. When the rolling thunder came out, did more guys start attending comps? When David Horne came up with the euro, did comp attendence boost? Not to pick on, or show favor to those two implements for mentioning, i just randomly selected a couple of staple implements as an example. I ask those questions because i truly dont know. Both of those came about before i ever knew grip was a contested sport. Maybe someone can shed some light? If the answer is "no" to if either of those implements boosting comp attendance when they came out, then its likely no new invention would yield different results.

if i were running a business selling grip equipment, sure, id be glad to vest my time into coming up with new stuff to sell. Because it would benefit ME.

 

on a side note, id like to point out that ANY and EVERY time ANYONE makes mention of new ideas for the sport around here, it is met with fit throwing, and borderline mockery by NAGS promoters. EVERY time. And id like to ask, wtf is up with that?? some of you act like your getting your teeth pulled over hearing new ideas.

 

Aaron i know you work hard for the NAGS site. ..to be honest, between you running comps, competing, pioneering new ideas for equipment (badass equipment, no less!), AND building, and running the NAGS site, that makes YOU the #1 promoter of this sport. Most certainly in the US anyways. Bar none. I dont care who else runs what comp. That said, i would like to hear, from you, what YOU think would grow the sport? if you could only make 1 change to gripsport, NAGS, whatever, that you think would be a great way to brach this sport out? 

 

I know a mans tone can be difficult to read online. So i'll add that none of what i say is meant to be offending. Id like my words to be borderline Insightful so as to catch your attention, yes. But not unsult. That would be a bitch move. Im just getting sick of the same old played out answer by a handful of members when new ideas are thrown y'alls way. The answer that, more or less, screams-

 

"well Tommy, if you dont like the way things are done, why dont YOU try the things you mention? Because were already doing everything that can be done. How dare you suggest we do more. We each run A comp a year. And then we put the results online. What more can we do? Were tired of your opinion Tommy. We think gripsort is as good as it can be right now. We want you to just shut up about your opinion on things or go try the things you suggest yourself."

 

...that is exactly what i feel like the stance is around here when new ideas are offered.

 

Granted, i would get tired of hearing about good lift bad lift opinions too. And i would get tired of opinions on what implements should be contested too. I would get tired of comp rules getting cried about too. But i care about none of that. I feel no need to have a say on those topics. Im only offering opinion (at this time) in regards to the sport growing in general. 

and heres the thing, yeah, im tempted to start my own organization, and risk my own money in the pursuit of doing my own thing. But dammit, i mention the things i mention TO you guys because I want to see NAGS grow as bad as i want to see the sport in general grow. Yep. You read that right... With as much back and fourth as i do with you guys on occasion, i actually want YOU to do well in continuing to promote. You guys have done enough stuff already that warrants respect from us non promoters. Enough respect that i/we even bother running new ideas by you guys (NAGS). In my opinion, it would be total disrespect to not mention possible ways of growth to NAGS. Again, i personally, would like to see the current organization here grow WITH the sport. Which in simpleton terms means- you guys have to continue to be the front runners.

 

oh man... Im sure im creeping up on pissing NAGS off bad enough that you guys are gonna request that Bill ban me, if you've not already. Lol! But im gonna continue on, just to get stuff off my chest.

 

promoting- is not holding a comp once a year so you can have your pet lifts recognized and posting the results online. "Promoting" would be more along the lines of what media does with the news/current events/sports/a million other things. Getting out there and educating people on gripsport, etc. ..on that note, and it seems like im complimenting Jedd left and right the last few days, but Jedd is a fine example of what "promoting" really is. He gets his face out there via the interwebs, runs his own site dedicated to grip, etc. THATS more or less what this sport needs more of above anything else. Not new grip toys. Not new comp "rules". Not new events to contest. Not new scoring methods. Etc.

 

The Arnold idea i threw out was just right off the top of my head as an example, and everyone dicided to pick that apart. It wasnt the only good venue i could request gripsport/NAGS make a showing at.. But i used that one randomly. There are indeed much cheaper venues of the same type caliber as the Arnold. The Ronnie Coleman classic, the Branch warren classic, the Europa, etc. take your pick.

Then there is social media.

Im not even remotely a social media guy. And even i understand the significants of making good use of it (social media) as a way of truly promoting the sport. Or promoting anything, really. An example of this is youtube. Youtube is easy. And doesnt cost anything to exploit its benefits. And a fine way to get well know on youtube is to do collabs with bigger youtubers that have a large audience on a daily basis. And in turn grow your own channel bigger with more subs, i.e. A bigger captured audience due to simply getting out in front of more people. Which, typically, also doesnt cost anything if you find a cool youtuber willing to help out. Big J from Big Js extreme fitness was one guy that truly wanted to help put grip on the map via his youtube channel. He was more than willing to do dedicated grip vids with dedicated grip guys, to help further educate his audience on the significance of training your grip. Meaning, he ALSO wanted to see it grow. For free, because he loves training grip. He even made sincere attempts to do a collab with Jedd. For free! It just didnt happen for whatever reason.

Sorry to highjack the thread.

man i really hope you guys understand my love for the sport, and eagerness to see it do well/grow. I learned in the military that "bitching" or problem solving goes UP the chain of command. Not down it.

Well damn chesty!!!

 I pretty much agree with all you've said.

 

My short time on here an lurking on threads I've seen the same thing. New idea pops up, old elite shit on it. Some not all. Especially when it comes to the Euro. As if that can be the only conceived device to test pinch. If you can't handle a certain width then you probably should just train it. If the width is 54 mm and you prefer 60, oh well. train it. Get stronger at it. Seems many contests do the same thing, Some variation of grippers, thick bar and pinch. Because that's like the only thing grip sport is about right We have so many different implements that test a facet of grip, yet we limit ourselves? We can't even be innovative and fun at our contests. For me the Medley is the funnest part, there is so much stuff to grab and offers so many challenges and no can bitch and complain about hand size, you either pick it up or you don't.

The Arnold idea was awesome, Eric brought up a very good point though and that's something I didn't even think about. For the life of me I can't remember what the guy said though. Something about return on investment and the probability of a numbers increase is unlikely. All I can remember without looking back is that it was a good point.

 

Edited May 28, 2016 by KapMan

[Lucasraymond]

Jedd and I teamed up with Promera/Concrēt at the Arnold this year to show gripsport specific lifts....it was a ton of fun but minimal to no follow up from ppl that attempted the lifts

[Andrew P]

I purchased FBBC with the intention putting equipment out I wanted for contests. 

So far I think I've improved the 1 handed events with a loading pin to height product. 

Repeatable rolling handle. 

and more is coming but it takes time and money and the return of sales for grip equipment frankly sucks. 

The 2-3/8" barbell is nearly ready that should take back strength out a little more and it's what Herman Gorner used. 

[Jared Goguen]

God damn can we please have one thread without a Euro debate?

[anwnate]

59 minutes ago, Jared Goguen said:

God damn can we please have one thread without a Euro debate?

Ha!  What fun would that be?  

Seriously though...that's a good point.

19 hours ago, acorn said:

... I would love to hear what some of you other folks think could make a grip contest better equipment wise. Better as in easier to run, more streamlined, more interesting to watch, whatever. You tell me. Would love to hear some new ideas...

This...is exactly what this thread was created for.

[Jared Goguen]

Just now, anwnate said:

Ha!  What fun would that be?  

Seriously though...that's a good point.

Would it be okay to have "The Great Euro Discussion" thread and make it sticky? One spot, all Euro talk. Make it free for all, I don't care but the topic and a select minority keep jacking threads with it.

[Squeezus]

11 hours ago, anwnate said:

It's worth keeping in mind...

that a discussion about a man's brainchild, doesn't equate to bashing of that same man.  David Horne IS grip...but that doesn't stop him from improving his own products.  He's an innovator who IS responsible for Gripsport on the other side of the pond...at least.

That said.  Neither David, or his creations are sacrosanct.  Attempts at improving any known product should not be considered disrespectful to the creator.  In an effort to increase numbers here in the U.S., there has been a movement to create a more streamlined entry into Gripsport.

Can Americans be annoying?  Sure ...why not?  Are we a somewhat impatient people who tend to prefer quick scoring games over Soccer?   Yup.

In a couple of threads recently, you seem to take any comment about the Euro very personally. It also seems that you feel this forum is thereby attacking David Horne.   The extent of which this shows is a little bit odd.

I couldn't find a reference to the rest of the world dropping the Euro, but if some day, an apparatus from Russia or Australia or China...or the U.S., proves demonstratively superior to the Euro...then I imagine it will become the new standard...until it's improved upon.

Isn't that how it's supposed to work?

 

1 hour ago, Jared Goguen said:

God damn can we please have one thread without a Euro debate?

Mikael is no impartial observer in the Euro debate. He doesn't bring it up ever, but I recently read an interview where David Horne directly credits him in the joint creation of the Euro. So he is just defending his device that he made with David. No harm in that.

That said, I would like to see this discussion remain civil and constructive. Gripsport as we know it is young and small. There is a lot of room for growth. Don't knock it til you try it and all that.

[anwnate]

1 hour ago, Andrew P said:

I purchased FBBC with the intention putting equipment out I wanted for contests. 

So far I think I've improved the 1 handed events with a loading pin to height product. 

Repeatable rolling handle. 

and more is coming but it takes time and money and the return of sales for grip equipment frankly sucks. 

The 2-3/8" barbell is nearly ready that should take back strength out a little more and it's what Herman Gorner used. 

You seriously have.  The loading pin/bar is a thing of beauty...bullet proof and badass.  The idea that you can add weight to the top of it without moving the bar...was a stroke of genius...and really speeds things up.  Can't wait to use it in 2 weeks for the comp.

The only thing I could think to adjust on it was adding a tiny bit of weight up it's arse...to have it come in at exactly 3kg.  #screwdecimals

Keep those improvements coming!