Jump to content

Discussion about NAGSC attendance.


anwnate

Recommended Posts

One place at the same time with the same equipment is the ideals setting I think. It is the goal. Currently though it is not working and no growth is being noticed. I'm not sure how long it is sustainable at this time. 

We need interest, we need more people competing and we need more exposure. 

That means for a time the field would need to be watered down. Don't think of it in quite that light but in more of getting people into the sport and trying to make progress. Create excitement. Not an environment of well only (aribitrary numbers here) 30 people qualify but of those one 20 can travel and of those nobody feels like they can compete against the top 5 so they don't bother. 

People need to believe they can compete, they need to believe they can get better and that they will compete one day. Not many people get motivated when they get blown out of the water by so much they mine as well have stayed home. 

Biggest thing is money.  Events are no cheap to hold. Travel for people is not cheap. Even if everyone organizing remains completely unpaid volunteers some things cost money. Want more money there has to be more people. Things have to come back to the masses to a degree before that money can come in and growth can happen. 

Typing on my phone so hopefully this makes some sense. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This years nationals is a bump in the road. There are more comps by more novice promototers this year than the past few. There are new companies pumping out grip equipment. Things are going to happen, good things.

  • Like 6
Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 hours ago, anwnate said:

Well...that's great and all...but let's tack on another $500-600 dollars for airfare for the people in the West (i.e. Matt Cannon, Aaron Corcorran).  Can you get a break buying early...sure...let's make it $300-500.  Does any of this strike you as a tiny bit "unfair"?  Just sayin. 

Just making a suggestion of how to save a decent amount of money.  Not sure what you're saying, exactly, with the "unfair" statement.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I know that we have multiple sponsors that do contribute but usually they are implements, grippers, etc; should we ask for a monetary sponsorship instead?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 hours ago, KapMan said:

So really it comes down to attraction, accessibility, and prizes. But even then Strongman has Nationals at a different venue every year and I think America's Strongman is also at different venues. Not sure about the crossfit games or anything. 

Guys, I think it is awesome that people like Andrew and Jedd (and many others) do so much to get things organized and that Andrew is willing to host in OH.  Thank you!  What is hard for me (apart from my poor timing when I finally qualified to attend - on me 100%), and is iterating what a few people have said, is getting to OH, in particular.  Cost is part of it, but it is also time, with 3 kids under the age of 7.  There's no direct flight from Salt Lake, and you can fly almost anywhere from here, direct, including Asia and Europe.  By the time I take two flights, rent a car, etc, it is a full day...on both ends.  What if the event were held somewhere neutral, call it Vegas (just an example), or somewhere you could take your wife or kids for the weekend?  Somewhere easy to get to, where almost anyone can fly direct and take a taxi/Uber and arrive at the event...

Sure, logistics become complicated with varied implements and needing to transport them, but if the disciplines were streamlined somehow, I think it could work.  With such an extensive network of Strongman and Crossfit groups out there, tying into that and utilizing what they already have could facilitate things to a degree.

I don't know what the dynamic is with Odd and his events, but they're always in bigger cities, and tied into larger fitness events.  If you want brands to get on board for sponsorships and use incremental marketing spend at a grip event, there has to be non-competitor attendance.  I wholesale for MusclePharm outside the US, and a number of large sports nutrition brands, and they are hit-up daily for this, that and the other event...the only places money gets spent are those that provide foot traffic and visibility.  There has to be ROI for the brand.  Despite best intentions and efforts, it is going to be really hard to get money to chase a small stand-alone event.

In my opinion, an event of "Nationals" caliber needs to be:

  1. In a large-enough city to offer easy access, and secondary travel appeal
  2. Somehow affiliated with a larger fitness/lifting/strength event

This creates a platform that opens the door to sponsorships -- then prizes -- growth/recognition/etc...which seems to be the goal.  I'm willing to leverage my contacts to help bring this about.

If a push for this type of scenario cannot feasibly take place, I think Eric's recommendation for a King-Kong-type format is appealing and more likely to expand reach of the sport, until it can gain more critical mass.

 

  • Like 7
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Bryan Hunsaker said:

Guys, I think it is awesome that people like Andrew and Jedd (and many others) do so much to get things organized and that Andrew is willing to host in OH.  Thank you!  What is hard for me (apart from my poor timing when I finally qualified to attend - on me 100%), and is iterating what a few people have said, is getting to OH, in particular.  Cost is part of it, but it is also time, with 3 kids under the age of 7.  There's no direct flight from Salt Lake, and you can fly almost anywhere from here, direct, including Asia and Europe.  By the time I take two flights, rent a car, etc, it is a full day...on both ends.  What if the event were held somewhere neutral, call it Vegas (just an example), or somewhere you could take your wife or kids for the weekend?  Somewhere easy to get to, where almost anyone can fly direct and take a taxi/Uber and arrive at the event...

Sure, logistics become complicated with varied implements and needing to transport them, but if the disciplines were streamlined somehow, I think it could work.  With such an extensive network of Strongman and Crossfit groups out there, tying into that and utilizing what they already have could facilitate things to a degree.

I don't know what the dynamic is with Odd and his events, but they're always in bigger cities, and tied into larger fitness events.  If you want brands to get on board for sponsorships and use incremental marketing spend at a grip event, there has to be non-competitor attendance.  I wholesale for MusclePharm outside the US, and a number of large sports nutrition brands, and they are hit-up daily for this, that and the other event...the only places money gets spent are those that provide foot traffic and visibility.  There has to be ROI for the brand.  Despite best intentions and efforts, it is going to be really hard to get money to chase a small stand-alone event.

In my opinion, an event of "Nationals" caliber needs to be:

  1. In a large-enough city to offer easy access, and secondary travel appeal
  2. Somehow affiliated with a larger fitness/lifting/strength event

This creates a platform that opens the door to sponsorships -- then prizes -- growth/recognition/etc...which seems to be the goal.  I'm willing to leverage my contacts to help bring this about.

If a push for this type of scenario cannot feasibly take place, I think Eric's recommendation for a King-Kong-type format is appealing and more likely to expand reach of the sport, until it can gain more critical mass.

 

I like the idea of having it in a place you could also enjoy some family time. Brilliant. I have to bring my kids with me when I train and now when I compete so I like this idea very much.

Edited by KapMan
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, Bryan Hunsaker said:

Guys, I think it is awesome that people like Andrew and Jedd (and many others) do so much to get things organized and that Andrew is willing to host in OH.  Thank you!  What is hard for me (apart from my poor timing when I finally qualified to attend - on me 100%), and is iterating what a few people have said, is getting to OH, in particular.  Cost is part of it, but it is also time, with 3 kids under the age of 7.  There's no direct flight from Salt Lake, and you can fly almost anywhere from here, direct, including Asia and Europe.  By the time I take two flights, rent a car, etc, it is a full day...on both ends.  What if the event were held somewhere neutral, call it Vegas (just an example), or somewhere you could take your wife or kids for the weekend?  Somewhere easy to get to, where almost anyone can fly direct and take a taxi/Uber and arrive at the event...

Sure, logistics become complicated with varied implements and needing to transport them, but if the disciplines were streamlined somehow, I think it could work.  With such an extensive network of Strongman and Crossfit groups out there, tying into that and utilizing what they already have could facilitate things to a degree.

I don't know what the dynamic is with Odd and his events, but they're always in bigger cities, and tied into larger fitness events.  If you want brands to get on board for sponsorships and use incremental marketing spend at a grip event, there has to be non-competitor attendance.  I wholesale for MusclePharm outside the US, and a number of large sports nutrition brands, and they are hit-up daily for this, that and the other event...the only places money gets spent are those that provide foot traffic and visibility.  There has to be ROI for the brand.  Despite best intentions and efforts, it is going to be really hard to get money to chase a small stand-alone event.

In my opinion, an event of "Nationals" caliber needs to be:

  1. In a large-enough city to offer easy access, and secondary travel appeal
  2. Somehow affiliated with a larger fitness/lifting/strength event

This creates a platform that opens the door to sponsorships -- then prizes -- growth/recognition/etc...which seems to be the goal.  I'm willing to leverage my contacts to help bring this about.

If a push for this type of scenario cannot feasibly take place, I think Eric's recommendation for a King-Kong-type format is appealing and more likely to expand reach of the sport, until it can gain more critical mass.

 

Bryan - there hasn't been a big rush of people willing to host Nationals over the years - Jedd - myself, and Andrew is it.  I guess what we need is for people to come forward and offer to host it next year - at a place of their choosing.  Las Vegas might be fine if someone lives close enough to arrange a venue - has and can transport all the equipment etc to and from.  But using Jedd as an example - he lives in Pa - getting all the weights - axles - hammers - Euros etc out there is going to be tough.  Where ever it's held is going to have to be relatively close to where ever the promoter lives and has all the equipment for the comp.  And usually others bring equipment as well - Andrew is picking up a few items from me tomorrow to be used at Nationals - something done for almost all the contests I have ever attended.  Flying with an Axle - Euro and plates - and a Saxon bar is going to be a real pain. There is often equipment from 6 or 8 people at a given comp.  It can be done of course but things besides accessibility will come into play.

Edited by climber511
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ya know there's alot of gripping about travel and money. Maybe there should be a non contest year so everyone can just save. (im in that pool of gripers) As far as transporting gear, in the end if we are to grow some MFers are going to have to suck it up regardless where it's at and just rent a truck out. You can even rent a uhaul trailer for a few days.

Past few days we've been good at coming up with excuses for this and that, but not solutions. No matter where the contest is someone, will have to make the sacrifice play and spend a little more then someone else. If you want it bad enough you'll make it work. All these big orgs started somewhere and I'm sure had and have some of the same issues we are having right now trying to figure this out. This the problem with the Bros leading Bros.

Edited by KapMan
Link to comment
Share on other sites

All these big orgs started somewhere and I'm sure had and have some of the same issues we are having right now trying to figure this out.

Key word here is ORG - short for organization.

 

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

One of the things to keep in mind if this becomes more organized and and incorporated costs to compete are going up. For strongman it's common to drop $50 for the org fee and 75 to 100$ for the contest. 

Nationals is only $50 right now and the most I've done for a local comp was $15.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On May 28, 2016 at 8:40 AM, KapMan said:

Ya know there's alot of gripping about travel and money. Maybe there should be a non contest year so everyone can just save. (im in that pool of gripers) As far as transporting gear, in the end if we are to grow some MFers are going to have to suck it up regardless where it's at and just rent a truck out. You can even rent a uhaul trailer for a few days.

Past few days we've been good at coming up with excuses for this and that, but not solutions. No matter where the contest is someone, will have to make the sacrifice play and spend a little more then someone else. If you want it bad enough you'll make it work. All these big orgs started somewhere and I'm sure had and have some of the same issues we are having right now trying to figure this out. This the problem with the Bros leading Bros.

Having a non-contest year is kinda silly; what about the ppl that can afford to go each year! I save money for this trip each year, one to compete but also spend time with friends! 

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Lucasraymond said:

Having a non-contest year is kinda silly; what about the ppl that can afford to go each year! I save money for this trip each year, one to compete but also spend time with friends! 

What about the people (seems to be the majority) who are seemingly struggling to make appearances? If you can afford it, cool. It was just an idea as I keep seeing people, myself included talk about not making these key events because of money. Just trying to think of everyone..not just the elite guys.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

25 minutes ago, KapMan said:

What about the people (seems to be the majority) who are seemingly struggling to make appearances? If you can afford it, cool. It was just an idea as I keep seeing people, myself included talk about not making these key events because of money. Just trying to think of everyone..not just the elite guys.

Wouldn't let me edit

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, KapMan said:

Wouldn't let me edit

 

i don't think being elite means you have any more money than anyone else.  The United States is very big country - even if we come up with a 10 site Regionals - there is going to be quite a bit of travel involved for almost everyone - which means while the problem may be better - it certainly is still going to exist.  Even in Britan, as small as it is - we constantly read about money and travel issues keeping people from competing. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 hours ago, Andrew P said:

One of the things to keep in mind if this becomes more organized and and incorporated costs to compete are going up. For strongman it's common to drop $50 for the org fee and 75 to 100$ for the contest. 

Nationals is only $50 right now and the most I've done for a local comp was $15.

A couple of unpopular things may be required for growth, including higher fees - both for a National-caliber event, and perhaps for membership to NAGS as an official association.  Strongman makes us pay every year for membership dues just to be eligible for nationals, and to compete in qualifying events.  The Salt Lake FitCon event that ran in tandem with our grip event, cost $100 to compete in, and opened the door for 2 qualifying national's spots.  I don't love how NAS is run, in some respects, and a lot of the money kicks back to the person that runs it, but it does provide a more robust framework for hosting competitions, providing prizes, etc.  Part of that $100 went to NAS just to have it be an NAS event.

I'm sure there is some degree of overhead to running an official association, but if some level of dues were levied for NAGS membership, and qualifying competitions placed a higher price-tag on participation, funding would be in place to have association-owned equipment, and perhaps to even subsidize participation in Nationals, or give back to winners as self-funded prizes. 

A token due from a lot of people (whatever the amount may be...much like belonging to the GB) could prop-up the organization without it being overbearing to the individual, and that could be a starting point to ease other problems, including facilitating other locations, and even finding sponsors via promotion on social media, etc.

On ‎5‎/‎27‎/‎2016 at 7:43 PM, climber511 said:

Bryan - there hasn't been a big rush of people willing to host Nationals over the years - Jedd - myself, and Andrew is it.  I guess what we need is for people to come forward and offer to host it next year - at a place of their choosing.  Las Vegas might be fine if someone lives close enough to arrange a venue - has and can transport all the equipment etc to and from.  But using Jedd as an example - he lives in Pa - getting all the weights - axles - hammers - Euros etc out there is going to be tough.  Where ever it's held is going to have to be relatively close to where ever the promoter lives and has all the equipment for the comp.  And usually others bring equipment as well - Andrew is picking up a few items from me tomorrow to be used at Nationals - something done for almost all the contests I have ever attended.  Flying with an Axle - Euro and plates - and a Saxon bar is going to be a real pain. There is often equipment from 6 or 8 people at a given comp.  It can be done of course but things besides accessibility will come into play.

Just going the LV route for the sake of discussion...you've got Nick Best down there who I'm sure would be open to helping us do something, and likely has many implements, already.  I could bring stuff down from Salt Lake, even though it is a 6 hour drive.  You'd pull the California people with just a 3 hour drive, and maybe even Odd would roll-in and co-promote it, bring an Inch, etc. (a discussion for another day, I'm sure, but we should find a way to tie his efforts in, unless there is something I'm not aware of).  I don't think flying around with bars makes sense, either, but shipping LTL is pretty easy, and not that expensive.  Maybe with a larger, official organization, Sorinex would throw-in a Saxon bar, and Ironmind would give an axle.  Maybe those could even be prizes.  If the venue is big enough, and the opportunity tangible for those companies, I'm sure something could be worked-out.  I'd be happy to find a supplement sponsor even if it is just free product for people.  Taking it further, you've got the Olympia every September and NAS is always there...perhaps we tie-in with them, share the costs, and setup shop in a high-traffic area at a legit trade show.  The Arnold is absolutely overrun, but we could be accommodated at the Olympia.

I don't want to take-away from any efforts, or anything anyone does.  There is an awesome group of people here, going to great lengths, daily, and likely incurring personal expense, both monetary and in terms of time away from family, to promote this sport.  I do think, though, that with a more official framework (including money raised), and some networking, we could do some really cool things!

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, climber511 said:

i don't think being elite means you have any more money than anyone else.  The United States is very big country - even if we come up with a 10 site Regionals - there is going to be quite a bit of travel involved for almost everyone - which means while the problem may be better - it certainly is still going to exist.  Even in Britan, as small as it is - we constantly read about money and travel issues keeping people from competing. 

 

Yeah I know:( That's why I suggested what I did. trying to think of everyone, but then my dumbass wrote ELITE like some how you get paid more in grip for having an elite total. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

not many people know what I do and to what extent exactly. But I'm sure there are more guys like me. I'm what you call essential personnel. That means I have to show up regardless of weather, holidays or any excuse you can think of. And sometimes I gotta go protect some assets; these could be people, they could be things or information. So it's not the money, traveling or the qualifying that's the issue. It's the time off that's the huge issue for me. Money is easy to make, my time is worth more than money right now. That's my reason. 

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah I know:( That's why I suggested what I did. trying to think of everyone, but then my dumbass wrote ELITE like some how you get paid more in grip for having an elite total. 

Yeah twice nothing is still nothing for Jedd and those guys :)

 

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, KapMan said:

Wouldn't let me edit

 

Instead of buying a 3.5" and 4" crusher use that money to go to a contest

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Lucasraymond said:

Instead of buying a 3.5" and 4" crusher use that money to go to a contest

If I didn't already commit  to saving for those two items that would of been the plan.  But a promise is a promise. I don't fault on my word. But I see no reason to explain myself to you. It was an idea for the masses. Don't like it that's fine.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, KapMan said:

If I didn't already commit  to saving for those two items that would of been the plan.  But a promise is a promise. I don't fault on my word. But I see no reason to explain myself to you. It was an idea for the masses. Don't like it that's fine.

Luke isn't arguing your decision to invest in grip equipment. He is arguing the importance of gaining experience in a competitive environment.

He knows you, personally, have something to gain by being there or he wouldn't spend his time encouraging you.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, JHenze646 said:

Luke isn't arguing your decision to invest in grip equipment. He is arguing the importance of gaining experience in a competitive environment.

He knows you, personally, have something to gain by being there or he wouldn't spend his time encouraging you.

That is correct Josh; I would take the experience of a contest versus buying equipment! 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Lucasraymond said:

That is correct Josh; I would take the experience of a contest versus buying equipment! 

Then I apologize.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm an equipment junkie - one of the worst on the GB maybe.  And after it all I have come to believe that most of the things we all either want or already have are not necessary to develop strong hands.  To train specific events for competition maybe more items but the ultimate path to increasing ones strength is knowledge and consistently showing up to do the work.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, climber511 said:

I'm an equipment junkie - one of the worst on the GB maybe.  And after it all I have come to believe that most of the things we all either want or already have are not necessary to develop strong hands.  To train specific events for competition maybe more items but the ultimate path to increasing ones strength is knowledge and consistently showing up to do the work.

I like the gear though. I want my cake and to eat it too.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Unfortunately, your content contains terms that we do not allow. Please edit your content to remove the highlighted words below.
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy policies.