2016 - 2017 North American Season

[climber511]

1 minute ago, KapMan said:

Good Question.  I got nothing...

I don't think people are thinking all this stuff though very well.  There are reasons strength sports are set up the way they are - And this is NOT the way it should be done.  If Grip doesn't get off this forum the Competition Sport aspect is going to be gone. 

[Jared Goguen]

1 hour ago, Jedd Johnson said:

No, sir, that is not what I was thinking.  Just another way to qualify, and a way to attract people and create legitimacy.

Hmmm I guess I was thinking about how crossfit is structured. Opens, regionals, and nationals. Seems like the whole point of having regional comps was to give people a chance to do well and then be able to go to nationals.

Having regional comps all around the country where the people that place lets say 2nd and 1st still may not hit there numbers to goto nationals seems silly. If the goal here is to create create legitimacy and attract people then having a structured ladder of events for people to participate in and build up to something is best i think.

[Jared Goguen]

56 minutes ago, climber511 said:

What happens if not enough competitors show up at a particular Regional for each class to qualify - very possible - especially in lighter classes that usually aren't well attended? 

Well that would be a failure on the part of the promoter then wouldn't it.

Ask yourself how many people live within 20 miles of you. If we all did the kind of promotional work that was done for the Southern Squeeze then people would show up.

There's 2.3million in my area, I should be able to find enough people to show up. Already I have found 7 new people that want to start training grip with me at my gym that are not on the forum here but rather they use other forms of social media and thats how I found them

[Jeff Parker]

I think the problem with trying to set up qualifiers like Crossfit is that there is big money in it and most that are going to the games are doing so as part of their career, either they are living off prize money and sponsorship or that by being a top games athlete it drives business to their gym.  

With no money to be had in grip, people will miss a grip contest because of a family wedding, vacation, death, even a birthday party.  If there is hundreds of thousands of dollars on the line like in Crossfit people would be sure to structure their life around grip contests instead of the way it is now, scheduling a grip contest around every other part of your life.

Seems like with King Kong we already have a type of regionals.  Many people qualify for Nationals from competing in it. WSH was in May and had I think 33 competitors from around the WORLD.  Not a big turnout.  I initially liked the sound of regionals but there are only so many contests people can attend each year.

[Jared Goguen]

2 minutes ago, Jeff Parker said:

I think the problem with trying to set up qualifiers like Crossfit is that there is big money in it and most that are going to the games are doing so as part of their career, either they are living off prize money and sponsorship or that by being a top games athlete it drives business to their gym.  

With no money to be had in grip, people will miss a grip contest because of a family wedding, vacation, death, even a birthday party.  If there is hundreds of thousands of dollars on the line like in Crossfit people would be sure to structure their life around grip contests instead of the way it is now, scheduling a grip contest around every other part of your life.

That wasn't always the case. I think first crossfit games had less then 100 people and no money on the line.

I'm trying to think 5 or 10 years down the line, you need to build a base somehow.

Edited May 26, 2016 by Jared Goguen

[Jeff Parker]

Just now, Jared Goguen said:

That wasn't always the case. I think first crossfit games had less then 100 people and no money on the line.

I think the first crossfit games was 2007 and 70 competitors.  They did not have the structure they have today with an open qualifier and I'm not sure but I don't think there was a regional either.  I think the winners got $500 which would be considered big time for grip. 

It has certainly taken off from there, but they have dedicated crossfit gyms or "boxes" paying membership fees in the millions of dollars now.  Grip is making its way into gyms but I don't see a whole commercial gym dedicated to grip with paying members happening all over the country.

[JHenze646]

1 hour ago, climber511 said:

What happens if not enough competitors show up at a particular Regional for each class to qualify - very possible - especially in lighter classes that usually aren't well attended? 

They would still be able to qualify in the overall standings for their weight class assuming a coinciding multi venue contest.

[climber511]

4 minutes ago, JHenze646 said:

They would still be able to qualify in the overall standings for their weight class assuming a coinciding multi venue contest.

Not necessarily - the comment was made that Regionals might have different events - so placement would be meaningless.  Regionals with different events - is well....................stupid. 

[Eric Roussin]

I mentioned in a separate thread that Regionals could possibly have different events. But let me explain my perspective. I like the idea of Regional Championships that would serve to qualify competitors for the NAGS Championship. These Regionals would be similar to the current NAGS contests, but would be identified as "Regional Championships". They'd all be held at roughly the same time of year (a few months ahead of the NAGS Championship). I think the title of "Regional Champ" would be an incentive to most competitors, and I think to the outside public, the progression from Regionals to Nationals makes sense and is understood.

What is the big deal if the Regional Championships are not all the same? So the results won't be comparable across the country. Is this that much of an issue? We could just say the top two or three spots in each weight class qualify for Nationals, regardless of the number of participants. Plus, with different events, it could make the eventual winners of Nationals harder to predict.

Regional Championships held on the same day, with the same events, and with results compared across venues seems like it would be the same thing as a multi-venue Nationals. The only real difference is that the Regionals would have more participants.

Of course, there should be some sort of guidelines for event selection (e.g. at least one crush event, one pinch event, and one thick bar event).

[Jedd Johnson]

1 hour ago, Jared Goguen said:

Hmmm I guess I was thinking about how crossfit is structured. Opens, regionals, and nationals. Seems like the whole point of having regional comps was to give people a chance to do well and then be able to go to nationals.

Having regional comps all around the country where the people that place lets say 2nd and 1st still may not hit there numbers to goto nationals seems silly. If the goal here is to create create legitimacy and attract people then having a structured ladder of events for people to participate in and build up to something is best i think.

I understand.  Very early stages still.  Keep the ideas coming.

[anwnate]

6 minutes ago, Eric Roussin said:

I mentioned in a separate thread that Regionals could possibly have different events. But let me explain my perspective. I like the idea of Regional Championships that would serve to qualify competitors for the NAGS Championship. These Regionals would be similar to the current NAGS contests, but would be identified as "Regional Championships". They'd all be held at roughly the same time of year (a few months ahead of the NAGS Championship). I think the title of "Regional Champ" would be an incentive to most competitors, and I think to the outside public, the progression from Regionals to Nationals makes sense and is understood.

What is the big deal if the Regional Championships are not all the same? So the results won't be comparable across the country. Is this that much of an issue? We could just say the top two or three spots in each weight class qualify for Nationals, regardless of the number of participants. Plus, with different events, it could make the eventual winners of Nationals harder to predict.

Regional Championships held on the same day, with the same events, and with results compared across venues seems like it would be the same thing as a multi-venue Nationals. The only real difference is that the Regionals would have more participants.

Of course, there should be some sort of guidelines for event selection (e.g. at least one crush event, one pinch event, and one thick bar event).

Reading this...I realized something I completely missed before.

We ALREADY have different events as qualifiers...lots of them.  

As was mentioned recently...certing the Red qualifies you...even if you can't close a #3.

As long as the "different" event results fall in line with what the qualifying "standard" is...I don't see the problem.

[climber511]

2 hours ago, Jared Goguen said:

Well that would be a failure on the part of the promoter then wouldn't it.

Ask yourself how many people live within 20 miles of you. If we all did the kind of promotional work that was done for the Southern Squeeze then people would show up.

There's 2.3million in my area, I should be able to find enough people to show up. Already I have found 7 new people that want to start training grip with me at my gym that are not on the forum here but rather they use other forms of social media and thats how I found them

Within 20 miles of me - maybe 8000 total.  One public gym - not especially big.  Different world than yours maybe?

[KapMan]

1 hour ago, Tommy J. said:

Im not gonna lie.. Every time i see a post that insinuates that NAGs discussions should be taken place behind closed doors by some "commitee" so as to avoid public opinion, it makes me not only consider never competing in a NAGs contest again, but it makes me also want to not even recognize NAGs. If NAGs is to be run privately, then it can simply be looked at as a private club type deal. With no public recognition. If you dont want to recognize public opinion, public should in turn refuse to recognize you.

 I think we can make our own way of contributing, With as tight of a community as we have we could easily put forth ideas. But in order to have some sort of legitimacy and grow the sport then you will have to have some sort of established committee to run shit.  Crossfit, Powerlifting, Strongman all have official everything, rules, structure and other things that make them legit. Being on a forum, with bros leading bros will not grow the sport, and eventually the sport will die. You are going to have sacrifice something.

[climber511]

Tommy - several contests have had monetary prizes over the years.  But the amounts were of course small.  Chad's invitation only contest down in Georgia several years back for one that I remember - maybe the biggest package I can remember?  Gripmas has had money a few times as have others.  But bigger money is going to have to come from some kind of sponsor with deeper pockets than we have been able to find so far.  So money has been tried in as much as we had to give away. 

[KapMan]

28 minutes ago, Tommy J. said:

I cant say i totally disagree with a governing body. In any organized anything, it does make sense. But lets not forget that a government in any (free world) organization, that government is not permitted to "tell" people what to do. A government is SUPPOSED to represent the public opinion. Not challenge it. and most certainly not disregard it. In fact, i would bet on the fastest way out of being on some sort of governing body position, is to make a habit of challenging the general public opinion that you are representing.

 

 I guess when i really think about it, the grip comps that attract the strongest grips are comps like Mighty Mitts, and the San Jose thing. (I'll add that both have prize money involved) Both those comps do just fine it appears. Atleast for the bigger stronger guys. and both comps are run on a tight ship with no outside influence weighing in on how the comps should run. but the trade off is, neither comp is sanctioned with NAGs? And it appears that none of the lifts are recognized by NAGs? If im wrong, please correct me. But if not, Why are those comps not recognized? Is it because they do the lone ranger thing in deciding whats what for those comps? Is NAGs pissed because those comps dont bow to NAGs, and as a result, NAGs refuse to recognize any of the performances in those comps? If so, that sounds a lot like what will happen when NAGs takes a similar stance of not accepting public opinion.

 

I cant sit and actually believe NAGs takes that stance (the stance that screams "screw what the guys on the grip board, abd the guys competing say") as a whole. Because to my knowledge, Jedd has been an authority in gripsport for quite some time. And even Jedd appears open for discussion. That i applaud. And that i also interpret as a gesture that proves he really does want to see the sport grow as a whole. 

 

My opinion (im still stuck on a way to grow the sport. NOT run it) is this- find a way to get money moving into it. And it will grow. Sort out comp organization AFTER you get enough competitors rolling in that comp organization actually becomes an issue. If it, gripsort, is going to ever become something bigger than a niche hobby, then it needs MORE competitors. Not more rules on who runs what, or how comps are run. Who cares. Just get people there. the best way to attract MORE competitors, is to make them WANT to compete for reasons other than just fun. Money.

 

im actually beginning to feel like a total asshole for carrying on about prize money. But it looks like one of the only things i havent seen tried in NAGs comps. And i have a hard time believing that prize money would fail in growing the sport.

 

as far as how to make that happen, i have no solid advice. Maybe thats something a governing bodycan experiment with to see if they actually have what it takes to lead us into success as a whole with gripsport? Once the success in growing the sport starts happening, the less its going to be questioned by the public.

 

im not 100% certain i like taking this stance.. Like i said above, i actually feel sort of like an asshole. But damn, its like one of a hadful of things that havent been tried yet.

Not even sure how to respond to this.

Not sure how having a governing body in gripsport will hurt anything. You still have to follow the rules we have now. It would be the same thing. Just on a larger scale.

[KapMan]

42 minutes ago, Tommy J. said:

If your unsure then come back when your ready to lay down some direct fire?

Who griped about following any rules? What rules? And what larger scale are you referring to? I have been around 5 or so years now in grip, and it appears to have gotten smaller just in the last 5 years. Ive seen a lot of strong competitors seemingly fade away just in 5 years. And that sucks.

 

if gripsort continues to not grow, the sole people responsible will be the people running it. Unless you think the competitors are to blame?

 

Anyone who considers themselves leaders in our sport, who chooses to blame the stall in gripsort growth on us, simply as members voicing our opinions on matters, is equivalent, imo, as if a man were to blame his kids because he couldnt pay his bills. And how ridiculous would that be?

 

Im starting to sound like a harsh bastard, but dont know how much more direct i could be? 

 

Chris, more what im getting at with the money thing is this, if you were to ask around at any various strength venue (i.e. Strongman, arm wrestling, powerlifting, etc.) and you were to ask all of the people there competing if they had ever heard of a grip competition, and a small handful say yes, the only ones they know of (here in the states anyways) are Mighty Mitts, and the San Jose fit expo grip comp. i know, because i openly yap about grip every where i go, and have asked that exact question many times to random people before i begin my schpeel about trying to educate people on gripsport, that may otherwise not have a clue. That said, what do those 2 comps have in common? They both have decent payouts, and both are held piggback to other large events/venues. Both are promoted heavily as well. Online, on forums, etc. Events like those 2 are what we need more of.

 

Surely im not the only guy who has noticed?

Relax your guns Chesty Puller.

I don't recall hearing/reading any blame on the current batch of leaders or the athletes in the sport.

Furthermore you're the one whining about a governing body in the sport which is exactly what we need to legitimize the sport.  I highly doubt Jedd, Or anyone elected  from our current pool of leadership would take a warm dump on us.

I've been saying we need to jump on board major expos and shows since this debate arose. I myself are attempting to get on board with local strength sport shows in my area that are fairly big. I wasn't attacking you at all I really wasn't sure how to answer but I wanted to try.

 

[KapMan]

16 minutes ago, Tommy J. said:

and your one to throw around the whining word.. Arent you the guy that refuses to compete because you know you wont win 1st place? Between the two of us, i would bank on you being the whiner.

I don't care about winning, even though that is the end goal. but I do care about whether I'm competitive or not.  If I lose I want the other guy to be sweating it out. I've competed once and got canned, I will compete again in July, you're welcome to come..love to meet you.

Chesty Puller is one of the greatest Marine Generals of our time. Comparable to Mad Dog Mattis. Or SGM Plumley as a certified BAMF

Chesty: http://www.badassoftheweek.com/puller.html

Mattis: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Mattis

Plumley: http://www.badassoftheweek.com/plumley.html

 

Anyways...I did interpret Chris's comment differently.

[KapMan]

1 minute ago, Tommy J. said:

Okay so that was quite the compliment. I can dig it. I prefer "the asshole" though.

 

Thank you for the invite. i would love nothing more than to make every comp for the rest of the year. Unfortunately i cant make it happen. As soon as pto starts over, in December, i will be glad to compete with who ever, where ever.

 

While earlier i attempted to emphasize that i actually began to feel out of line on the prize money bit.. Because i actually love this sport, and am eager to see it grow. Mentioning that makes it seem as though i care more about money. But i just cant find any other way to make mention of it without it being blunt.

as i also mentioned above, i have no clue how to go about that. Other than simply hosting comps strictly at bigger venues and making a point to put gripsport right in everyones face. Eventually in doing that, i like to think a sponsor with deep pockets (as Chris said, and i agree with that part) might present itself some how? Charisma will definitely be a big factor in locking down a sponsor of that caliber though. I wouldnt think an investor of some sort wants anything to do with a monotone atmosphere.

 

forgive me if im hard to follow.. I guess im just rambling on at this point.

Not at all i can be extremely stupid, ask Jedd.

I think the Prize money thing is inevitable, All major strength sports has that aspect in it. I don't think it takes too much away from the sport, in fact I think it challenges people to work harder. After all money is everything. To some people. 

[Andrew P]

12 minutes ago, KapMan said:

Not at all i can be extremely stupid, ask Jedd.

I think the Prize money thing is inevitable, All major strength sports has that aspect in it. I don't think it takes too much away from the sport, in fact I think it challenges people to work harder. After all money is everything. To some people. 

I don't know for Legends I've got $1500 on the line for prizes and only 5 entries in so far. Granted it may still be early. If the money aspect needs to go higher we will need to find sponsorship outside of the community. 

[JHenze646]

From the larger prize-money contest, how many of those athletes compete at multiple grip comps through out the year?

We can't wait for a sponsor to swoop in with buckets of money to save gripsport.

We have to be doing it so well that people take notice and want to be part of it. 

I can't speak for Mr. Rice. 

The sport needs to grow beyond a forum sport to an organization to move forward. There will be hard decisions that need made and it can't be open to endless debate or it won't go anywhere. Some decisions will be bad and people will get upset. To move the sport forward, it has to happen.

 

[KapMan]

19 minutes ago, JHenze646 said:

From the larger prize-money contest, how many of those athletes compete at multiple grip comps through out the year?

We can't wait for a sponsor to swoop in with buckets of money to save gripsport.

We have to be doing it so well that people take notice and want to be part of it. 

I can't speak for Mr. Rice. 

The sport needs to grow beyond a forum sport to an organization to move forward. There will be hard decisions that need made and it can't be open to endless debate or it won't go anywhere. Some decisions will be bad and people will get upset. To move the sport forward, it has to happen.

 

well said.

 

[Jeff Parker]

Regarding outside sponsorship, why would a sponsor like a Resturant or insurance company or retail store or brand of shoes clothing etc want to sponsor an event that has 20 or less people competing in a venue with virtually no spectators?  They wouldn't.  Sponsors are there for advertising purposes.  If a large number of people are not going to ever know that they sponsored and event they won't go.

Now put on a grip event at a large fair like the Minnesota state fair that had almost 2 million people attend in 2014 and put up sponsor banners and shirts with their name on it and I would think you could get quite a few.  The last strongman contest I competed in like 12 years ago was at a fair in my neighborhood and it had probably 20 sponsors with nothing to do with weightlifting.

I don't know what it takes to get an event put on at a large venue like the Minnesota state fair but it sure would be fun!!  I'd compete!

[KapMan]

57 minutes ago, Andrew P said:

I don't know for Legends I've got $1500 on the line for prizes and only 5 entries in so far. Granted it may still be early. If the money aspect needs to go higher we will need to find sponsorship outside of the community. 

I saw that you had some cash prizes, I'd go. but its too soon after DBCC

[climber511]

3 hours ago, Tommy J. said:

If you dont recall any blaming, see Chris's post where he says that until there is a private entity governing grip sport, that no longer hears opinions from the gripboard, that gripsport will stay exactly where its at. That IS blaming us. Unless you interpret it different, im pretty sure i read it how Chris meant it.

 

whats a chesty puller? Are you hitting on me?

Tommy - it's not that I (and the committee) don't listen but in the 3 or 4 threads going about the subject right now - there are how many opinions on what is best to do - lots and they are all different in some way?  Which ones do we try to implement - and how quickly do you think these things can happen when every opinion is different?  And for every one not implemented (or not done quickly enough) someone is going to say we aren't doing our jobs to suit "them".  That's what I mean about things having to move away from a forum - there's not a strength sport out there anywhere run this way - name me a sport that does not have a rule book - members paying dues and the things I have talked about..  And I've competed in about all of them over the years.  So yes I am and no I'm not blaming you (the GB) - I'm saying that 20 or more people cannot all have their way in running ANYTHING. 

[climber511]

Here’s something to think about.  There has been some pretty good ideas put forth.  I think “YOU” (a generic term here) should step up and make some of them happen.  A Grip Booth at the Arnold or Fit Expo is a tremendous idea – YOU should rent the booth space out of your pocket – have some informational flyers printed up to hand out and take all the items in to represent Grip Sport - man the booth for 3 days and have a blast.  If you don’t have the equipment – do what everyone has done, buy them or make them.  STEP UP.  I just read over the NAGS regulations – no where in them does it say YOU can’t do this.  No where does it say YOU can’t step up and hold a contest – promote it with the events you choose - spread the word however you see fit to do so – STEP UP.  Multi Site Regionals – STEP UP and say you’ll have one.  Qualifiers too heavy – STEP UP and get stronger.   STEP UP.   Don't just type on the  keyboard - Get Involved and actually do something that will solve "one" of the problems discussed.

 

I will always think Nationals should be at one venue - anything else can be as scattered as people want - but that's like the Olympics to me - everyone same time - same day - same equipment - it's the right way to do things "in my mind."  If others disagree, that's fine, but I get an opinion too. 

I have heard various figures quoted for a venue (room) at the Arnold - someone better have some very deep pockets to rent a room there.  Even a booth space there can set you back thousands.

Edited May 27, 2016 by climber511