Feedback About Flask Event At Southern Squeeze

[acromegaman]

An all around great device! I will definitely be buying one of these.

[Evan Raftopoulos]

I haven't tried the Flask but I have an fbbc 2" pinch block climber pinch style and also with a hook that I've been training for pinch grip pullups. I believe it offers the same benefits as the Flask that people described above except that the edge is not round. I guess the round edge might be more 'ergonomic' (fits better) for the hand? and better mimic 2x45s lift as Gil mentioned. Would love to try it out one day.

[Mikael Siversson]

Based on the competition results the 'flask' seem to so bear little resemblance to pinch lifting steel plates. Bob, one of the top guys in plate pinching produced rather modest numbers with the 'flask'. In contrast he is a WR holder in the 1HP on the Euro. The Euro set up has become so popular because it is one of very few hand size neutral events. These fixed implements have come and gone, mostly, I dare say because they are not hand size neutral and therefore not an optimal way of testing pinch strength.

If you are a WR holder on a 'flask'-like implement it could simply be because someone stronger than you did not have the opportunity to pinch at their strongest width.

[Mikael Siversson]

If you want to excel in pinch lifting steel plates (Classic feat) you should not train on an implement where you get an 'air tight grip'. You might be highly disappointed when attempting to lift wide and awkward plates. This thread reminds me of an Australian (cant remember his name) who excelled in pinching a super shiny pinch implement cleaned by some detergent.

The biggest thing for me was the smooth edges of The Flask compared to the sharp Euro. Unlike the Euro, I could get an air tight grip on The Flask without worrying if the webbing around my thumb was going to get ripped off.

Edited January 20, 2016 by Mikael Siversson

[Mikael Siversson]

If I were you I would hold back on my enthusiasm. You outperformed Bob by some 15% on the flask. You don't find that strange given that he can pinch lift 2x25k? To me it strongly indicates that we are dealing with yet another wonder implement producing anomalous numbers, poorly correlated with pinching rough and uncomfortable steel plates and Euro set ups.

Liked the flask that much?

Yes I do, I just can't go back to training on the euro after using it.

Is the flask just luckily your ideal pinch width?

It's not just that. It is everything from the texture, how easy I could get chalk on there to something I can't put into words.

Edited January 20, 2016 by Mikael Siversson

[bencrush]

If you want to excel in pinch lifting steel plates (Classic feat) you should not train on an implement where you get an 'air tight grip'. You might be highly disappointed when attempting to lift wide and awkward plates. This thread reminds me of an Australian (cant remember his name) who excelled in pinching a super shiny pinch implement cleaned by some detergent.

The biggest thing for me was the smooth edges of The Flask compared to the sharp Euro. Unlike the Euro, I could get an air tight grip on The Flask without worrying if the webbing around my thumb was going to get ripped off.

Mikael, I think Vince was his name, if I remember right. That's just what popped in my head when I read your description of him.

[bencrush]

Boom! Vince Basile.

http://www.gripboard.com/index.php?showtopic=5839

[Mikael Siversson]

Thanks Ben that sounds familiar.

Instead of throwing around poorly supported arguments it would be beneficial for the discussion to give concrete examples.

The two top guys in the 1HP in the 83k class is Bob and myself. We are also arguably the two strongest of the light guys in plate pinching. Bob has done 2x25k and I have (at -74) done 4x10k. The correlation between the Euro and loose steel plate pinching in this case is as strong as it can get.

With the flask Bob did 33k which is VERY poorly correlated with his phenomenal 1HP Euro and plate pinching numbers.

Edited January 20, 2016 by Mikael Siversson

[Jared Goguen]

With the flask Bob did 33k which is VERY poorly correlated with his phenomenal 1HP Euro and plate pinching numbers.

It was also a lot of people first time touching it, so that can be a factor.

[Mikael Siversson]

I believe strong is strong in plate pinching loose steel plates. I pulled 4x10k first time I ever tried it.

In other words training on the Euro had massive carry-over to plate pinching.

With the flask Bob did 33k which is VERY poorly correlated with his phenomenal 1HP Euro and plate pinching numbers.

It was also a lot of people first time touching it, so that can be a factor.

Edited January 20, 2016 by Mikael Siversson

[Squeezus]

I believe strong is strong in plate pinching loose steel plates. I pulled 4x10k first time I ever tried it.

In other words training on the Euro had massive carry-over to plate pinching.

With the flask Bob did 33k which is VERY poorly correlated with his phenomenal 1HP Euro and plate pinching numbers.

It was also a lot of people first time touching it, so that can be a factor.

To Bob's credit, he was having an off day at the competition. Although he got close, he didn't lift my 2-45's or his inch (both easy feats for Bob) during the medley either and his vbar numbers were lower than at previous events as well. I guess it's possible that we just have more gravity in Tennessee. I am confident that he will put up big numbers on the flask in the future.

I think you should try out the flask, and then let us know how tou feel about it. Based on the reception it has gotten from everyone who has lifted with it, I believe you would like it a lot and you can shoot for putting another record under your belt.

[Mikael Siversson]

I should, in all fairness, state that I am partial as the Euro is, to some degree, my 'pet' implement. Many years ago I had a disagreement with David Horne regarding 'pinch standard' in grip competitions. David preferred a fixed width implement around 50mm whereas I preferred a much wider around 70mm. As a compromise and in order to bring forth a uniform standard in European grip competitions David came up with an idea of a pinch implement where you could adjust the width. He sent me several drafts of various prototypes before we agreed on a final version. No one else was involved in the discussion and that's how the Euro was born.

[Mikael Siversson]

I don't think you can fully compare Bob's pinch/Inch feats when he is fresh as opposed to attempting these feats in a fatigued state as the medley is typically at the end of a competition.

I believe strong is strong in plate pinching loose steel plates. I pulled 4x10k first time I ever tried it.

In other words training on the Euro had massive carry-over to plate pinching.

With the flask Bob did 33k which is VERY poorly correlated with his phenomenal 1HP Euro and plate pinching numbers.

It was also a lot of people first time touching it, so that can be a factor.

To Bob's credit, he was having an off day at the competition. Although he got close, he didn't lift my 2-45's or his inch (both easy feats for Bob) during the medley either and his vbar numbers were lower than at previous events as well. I guess it's possible that we just have more gravity in Tennessee. I am confident that he will put up big numbers on the flask in the future.

I think you should try out the flask, and then let us know how tou feel about it. Based on the reception it has gotten from everyone who has lifted with it, I believe you would like it a lot and you can shoot for putting another record under your belt.

[Lucasraymond]

Something that Chris mentioned above was a pretty good idea, the ATB comes in three or four different diameters that you can use, if you did the same for the flask And made three or four of the most popular euro widths I think that would answer the adjustability part. Maybe even competitors could bring their own flasks to competitions to u

What is it about the edges that they don't tear thumbs? Given that in both cases (Flask and Euro) it is metal versus skin, I can't imagine that it's anything about the properties of aluminum as compared to steel. More likely, the edge on the Flask is just rounder in nature and I'm not clear why a similar edge could not be put on Euro plates.

Matt my thought is if you aren't causing some sort of skin roughening or close to tearing you are not performing enough wrist flexion to dig the thumb into the edge of the implement. Some people prefer a sharper edge to get more of a bite, others more rounded for fear of tearing. Also is the edge of every flask consistent, because perfect consistency would only happen with a router of some sort but changes if someone wants to to be different 'sharpness'. As far as the Euro if people are not filing the edges down then that is their mistake, my Euro is more rounded compared to Jedd's which I like to train on but I lift more on Jedds because I get a better bite, sometime at the cost of skin.

[KapMan]

Maybe its me, but I honestly don't care what width the device is, as long as its comfortable in my hands. Strength is strength. You should be training different widths imo anyways. You're only limiting yourself if you stick with your preferred width.

[Lucasraymond]

Maybe its me, but I honestly don't care what width the device is, as long as its comfortable in my hands. Strength is strength. You should be training different widths imo anyways. You're only limiting yourself if you stick with your preferred width.

Yes and no....in time you may understand the width can make a big difference of amount lifted and whether or not you with cut....loose plate pinching is on a steel surface so consistency with steel IMO is the best way to go. The speed of the Flask is great and the best part about it. I think it is a good implement to put in for beginners that havent had much experience with the Euro as they may not have found a width that is optimal. I have switched between 50mm and 52 for !HP and 52,54, and 58 for 2HP over the past two years and finally feel most comfortable at 54-58mm 2HP and 52mm 1HP.

*I also recommend training with various widths but with that comes the risk of skin tears which Kody (now Jedd and I) use leather web protectors (David Horne makes them also) when pinch at non-optimal widths plus it makes it harder as the bite is not as good at skin.

*It should become an optional event to the Euro if people don't want to run the Euro (which does take time, especially when people do not know their optimal width- NAGS 2014)- but still consistency is going to vary among implements no matter what

Edited January 20, 2016 by Lucasraymond

[KapMan]

Maybe its me, but I honestly don't care what width the device is, as long as its comfortable in my hands. Strength is strength. You should be training different widths imo anyways. You're only limiting yourself if you stick with your preferred width.

Yes and no....in time you may understand the width can make a big difference of amount lifted and whether or not you with cut....loose plate pinching is on a steel surface so consistency with steel IMO is the best way to go. The speed of the Flask is great and the best part about it. I think it is a good implement to put in for beginners that havent had much experience with the Euro as they may not have found a width that is optimal. I have switched between 50mm and 52 for !HP and 52,54, and 58 for 2HP over the past two years and finally feel most comfortable at 54-58mm 2HP and 52mm 1HP.

*I also recommend training with various widths but with that comes the risk of skin tears which Kody (now Jedd and I) use leather web protectors (David Horne makes them also) when pinch at non-optimal widths plus it makes it harder as the bite is not as good at skin.

*It should become an optional event to the Euro if people don't want to run the Euro (which does take time, especially when people do not know their optimal width- NAGS 2014)- but still consistency is going to vary among implements no matter what

Totally understand the concept brother. I just think folk shouldn't limit themselves to just one preferred with and instead explore a spectrum of widths. In all honesty as far as pinch goes I really like my 2 3/8 block I made at random. It cuts my webbing up like a sushi chef on speed, but that doesn't bother me. It seems my skin isn't as prone to tearing or cracking as most are so I can shift between different widths without much worry.

I also agree with your opinion as to using the flask as a introduction implement. Cool idea by all accounts. The flask is sanded in a way that adds great texture that IMO is perfect for pinch. The difference between plate pinch and the flask is as night and day. The grip was much better on the flask than steel plates. I've never messed with a euro and I can't wait to.

[climber511]

I have to view this as a "different" event and "not a replacement for" the Euro. The fixed width simply brings too many issues with it. Those people who use 54mm already will be fine - everyone else who uses a different width isn't going to like it regardless of speed of the event. Moving either up or down from ones preferred width cuts way too many pounds for those of us who have spent the time to determine our personal "best width". Newer lifters who don't yet know how to take advantage of how the different widths affect them probably won't notice much.

[climber511]

Something that Chris mentioned above was a pretty good idea, the ATB comes in three or four different diameters that you can use, if you did the same for the flask And made three or four of the most popular euro widths I think that would answer the adjustability part. Maybe even competitors could bring their own flasks to competitions to use?

I like this idea. There are only a couple common widths for the Euro. This would be a good compromise.

At Gripmas we had people who requested the following widths :

48-50-52-54-58-64 and one who would have gone even wider. This the beauty and the curse of the Euro .

[Chez]

Something that Chris mentioned above was a pretty good idea, the ATB comes in three or four different diameters that you can use, if you did the same for the flask And made three or four of the most popular euro widths I think that would answer the adjustability part. Maybe even competitors could bring their own flasks to competitions to use?

I like this idea. There are only a couple common widths for the Euro. This would be a good compromise.

At Gripmas we had people who requested the following widths :

48-50-52-54-58-64 and one who would have gone even wider. This the beauty and the curse of the Euro .

The beauty of compromise is that someone will be willing to move up or down a mm or two to speed things up . Just playing with you Chris

Edited January 20, 2016 by Chez

[John McCarter]

I'm just throwing this out there.

1) The Flask will never replace the Euro. They are two different tool and offer clearly something different the other won't!

2) Train the tool you want but remember, there is no one end all tool.

3) If you're bringing in some type of "bro-science" please provide actual evidence to support any claim instead of what you remember. And not just what you have done, it has to be measurable in someway where everyone can reproduce said claims.

4) Actually have both in some way so you can make true claims about the two tools and not some crap answer based on a personal preference and then somehow dismiss any other tool that comes along and you think it will take away what you have worked for.

5) The are not the same tool!

6) (For the people who went to the contest) Take into consideration that physically someone cannot always perform at their optimal levels of strength when you factor in travel, sleep, nutrition, and if they are at 100% or not, will they have any chance of an off-day. (Was any of these aspects considered before a bro science approach was added?)

7) How can anyone prepare for a contest where there is a new event that has never been contested before, how do you train exactly for it when you don't have the said tool?

[KapMan]

I'm just throwing this out there.

1) The Flask will never replace the Euro. They are two different tool and offer clearly something different the other won't!

2) Train the tool you want but remember, there is no one end all tool.

3) If you're bringing in some type of "bro-science" please provide actual evidence to support any claim instead of what you remember. And not just what you have done, it has to be measurable in someway where everyone can reproduce said claims.

4) Actually have both in some way so you can make true claims about the two tools and not some crap answer based on a personal preference and then somehow dismiss any other tool that comes along and you think it will take away what you have worked for.

5) The are not the same tool!

6) (For the people who went to the contest) Take into consideration that physically someone cannot always perform at their optimal levels of strength when you factor in travel, sleep, nutrition, and if they are at 100% or not, will they have any chance of an off-day. (Was any of these aspects considered before a bro science approach was added?)

7) How can anyone prepare for a contest where there is a new event that has never been contested before, how do you train exactly for it when you don't have the said tool?

I had wrote something here and decided it really wasn't worth it. The train of thought derailed and blew up.

Edited January 20, 2016 by KapMan

[Cannon]

Please keep in mind I didn't enter into this thread in order to establish any sort of "versus" argument. I was just legitimately curious about The Flask since people who attended the contest seemed to like it, but initially were not really saying why. I'm not sure where it started that anybody thinks one thing will replace another; that wasn't the point.

In general, thanks for the discussion about the merits of the Flask.

[Squeezus]

I don't want anyone to get upset about the flask one way or another. Nobody is forcing anything on anybody. I think the Euro is a great training device and has been the foundation of many strong pinchers. That said, I will keep using the Flask in my contests and training because it is extremely easy to use and is more accessible to newcomers and women and my main goal is to get more people, in my region as well as globally, into grip training and gripsport. I was very pleased with the reception from the competitors and the ease of use from an event promoter perspective. If you are curious about what the fuss is all about, perhaps grab one for yourself (they're pretty affordable) or come to a contest that is using it. You might just like it.

To address a couple questions raised earlier:

• The edges are not perfectly rounded by any kind of special machine. They are made by hand and examined with care for accuracy. I assume the same is the case for the Euro plates that are rounded by the folks that purchase them. The only difference being a lack of a standard for the rounding on the Euro plates.
• You cannot tell the difference between the surface of a chalked Flask and a chalked Euro unless the Euro is heavily pitted and corroded.
• You don't have to worry about whether your pinch gains are due to increased seasoning with the Flask. It will feel the same regardless of age or climate, the only change will be how you apply chalk to it and to your own hands.

[Lucasraymond]

I don't want anyone to get upset about the flask one way or another. Nobody is forcing anything on anybody. I think the Euro is a great training device and has been the foundation of many strong pinchers. That said, I will keep using the Flask in my contests and training because it is extremely easy to use and is more accessible to newcomers and women and my main goal is to get more people, in my region as well as globally, into grip training and gripsport. I was very pleased with the reception from the competitors and the ease of use from an event promoter perspective. If you are curious about what the fuss is all about, perhaps grab one for yourself (they're pretty affordable) or come to a contest that is using it. You might just like it.

To address a couple questions raised earlier:

• The edges are not perfectly rounded by any kind of special machine. They are made by hand and examined with care for accuracy. I assume the same is the case for the Euro plates that are rounded by the folks that purchase them. The only difference being a lack of a standard for the rounding on the Euro plates.
• You cannot tell the difference between the surface of a chalked Flask and a chalked Euro unless the Euro is heavily pitted and corroded.
• You don't have to worry about whether your pinch gains are due to increased seasoning with the Flask. It will feel the same regardless of age or climate, the only change will be how you apply chalk to it and to your own hands.

Would you consider making 3 different widths for the contest or no? 50, 54, 58? Or does that open a can of worms for people wanting every available width...you could make them all the same weight by adding welds (or lead weights) to the apparatus so not effecting weight and changing that. Just a thought to possibly resolve and discrepancies. You by no means have to do it as it would be no different than having an axle deadlift as the width doesn't change due to preference.

*I think it is a great idea and I am looking into buying aluminum plates that go on the Euro for lighter weights for competitors that are unable to lift the steel plated Euro

*Only hesitation with aluminum is the fact it is soft so if a weight or something steel hits it; it will cause a blemish and hopefully not in an area where hand placement but definitely makes a consistent texture

Edited January 20, 2016 by Lucasraymond