Evan Raftopoulos Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 I'm just curious about this. Do you find that there's good correlation with how much you bench and what you can bend? It feels that with DO the pecs and front deltoids are working a lot like when doing bench press. I know that there is more to bending than just strength in those muscles but I think doing heavy bench press should help with bending. If you don't mind sharing your numbers with bench press and bending (even estimates) I think that would help answer this question. My numbers are not very impressive, I can bench 100kg for about 6-8 reps if alone and I can go heavier if someone is behind me, and I can bend .275 inch nail in double wraps (Still need to develop better hand pain tolerance). I can go heavier on that hammer machine and smith machine but just curious about regular bench. Thanks guys 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Jack Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 I am not a high level bender in any form, but for me I really don't think there is a ton of correlation based on the technique I seem to use. I have always been a lousy bencher due to chronic shoulder and elbow issues. When I was able to almost finish a 6" Red Nail, I was only benching around 275. Overall, I think shoulder, trap and back strength play a larger role for me. However, I do believe that if I was a 350 bencher my crush would be better. I guess it helps with the crush IMO, but has not seemed to help or hinder me otherwise. The number one strength to have in bending is mental. It trumps most others up to the highest points of elite bending. If you have ever seen a pic of Gary Hunt, I highly doubt he was a 350+ bencher. Same with Tommy. These guys are just strong all over and have the mental toughness. Look at Derek Graybill, the guy looked like he weighed maybe 150 pounds when he bent some pretty big steel. Evan, based on your overall strength, you can bend most pieces that you believe you can once you get the technique and conditioning down. Just ask Josh Grass, I told him the same in a PM to pump him up and a couple of weeks later he was bending pieces that most people take many months to accomplish. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshW Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 When I bent my first bastard I was around the 275 mark raw and 300+ with a slingshot Ej will tell you, strong upper back and traps help 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony C. Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 My bench press is complete crap at around 240 but I'm bending steel harder than reds. When I started bending, I could dumbbell bench 110s in each hand, but could not budge a red nail when it came to the crush. Now, I can finish off steel harder than reds by a decent amount but my dumbbell bench hasn't gotten much stronger. I think it's all about just grinding it out session after session on the steel that will get you stronger on the steel. That being said, being large and strong plays a huge role. I don't think it will be common for guys that don't lift weights to bend a red (yes it's possible, just not common). And of course, you don't see too many guys under 200 lbs on the red nail roster. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anwnate Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 Never tried a max bench. Only have dumbbells. Did 2 reps with 105s...whatever that translates to. How far beyond the red I am I don't know...and what wraps you use make a huge difference for a max bend. That said...I know EJ has a significant bench...and he's at the top of the lists. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Cashman Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 When I was bending frequently I reached a point were I felt like I'd tapped out my limits as far as technique and pain tolerance. I had hit a major plateau and I tried multiple techniques to bust through. Ultimately I came to the decision that I just needed to get stronger overall. I was too weak to bend big steel. So I gave up my conditioning routines and hit the weights with more purpose. I started a modified smolov bench press program. I incorporated a lot of paused presses using a bench block. I also started adding weight to my pull-ups and maxing out at 5 reps instead of doing bodyweight sets of 10-15. After a few months I felt stronger than ever, my bench hit 275lb at 185lb bodyweight, which is still weak in comparison but good for me. After bringing up my upper body strength I ended up hitting a drill rod 515lb bend at 7" in single iron mind pads. My best bend. So for me, my best DO bending occurred when I brought up my total upper body strength. Technique and pain tolerance will only take you so far. After that you need to get stronger. For most though technique will trump strength at first. But when you start reaching your limits, strength will be a factor. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucasraymond Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 (edited) I'm just curious about this. Do you find that there's good correlation with how much you bench and what you can bend? It feels that with DO the pecs and front deltoids are working a lot like when doing bench press. I know that there is more to bending than just strength in those muscles but I think doing heavy bench press should help with bending. If you don't mind sharing your numbers with bench press and bending (even estimates) I think that would help answer this question. My numbers are not very impressive, I can bench 100kg for about 6-8 reps if alone and I can go heavier if someone is behind me, and I can bend .275 inch nail in double wraps (Still need to develop better hand pain tolerance). I can go heavier on that hammer machine and smith machine but just curious about regular bench. Thanks guys I think figuring out the your weakest link in the chain is probably the best way to increase your bending ability. If you have a strong chest/upper back/etc but weak wrists you will never be able to elicit a strong contraction to bend anything with significant force. This could also be the opposite. Being flexible enough to get into a good position first then focus on weaknesses. Some of the weaknesses may be pain tolerance, poor technique, bad wrapping, etc but figuring this out first is probably more of an issue for a beginner. If I had to guess JT Straussner probably could ~335-350# when he was bending golds and actually may still have the highest rated bar bent in IM pads (not 100% sure if correct) but watching him bend shoes and nails the guy has serious pain tolerance and incredibly strong wrists while being really flexible in his shoulders. Edited December 2, 2015 by Lucasraymond 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buccos1 Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 (edited) A few years ago, at a bodyweight of 198-200, my best bench was 350 raw, and my best bend (single IMPs) was a 5/16 x 7" drill rod bar rated at 505lbs (though this wasn't an absolute max). At the time, the bending was beginning to hurt my bench, and vice-versa. I finally found a routine that worked for both, but it was tough. I think having a good bench definitely helps with double-overhand bending (if technique is examined and force applied appropriately), but exercise selection and intangibles were helping me more with bending. At that point, I was up-and-down 20-25 pounds on my bench, but it didn't have much effect on bending maxes. When my technique was spot-on, and my mental state was right, that was when I bent the bigger bars in IMPs (490+) at 7". There were a lot of times too, that nagging injuries from bench were messing up my bending, and also preventing me from going 100%. And the same nagging injuries from bending were altering my bench technique. It always seemed worse with the shorter steel, but made progressing in both difficult at times. Now, my raw bench is around 335-340 and my estimated max (single IMPs) is a 7" drill rod bar rated at 465. I am hoping to get my bench back to 350 and up to 365 at some point next year, and will likely test my max bend at some point. I'm sure there will be a positive correlation if everything else is healthy. Edited December 2, 2015 by Buccos1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acromegaman Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 I like to think that I've bent some decent steel and my bench is in the low low 200's, but I have never focused on raising my bench. When I first started bending in 2012 I started out like most struggling with a 60d and with a lot of hard headed not giving up determination I worked my way up to bending what I am now. I'm not Superman by any means but bench hasn't been a factor in my success although I'm sure it wouldn't hurt. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
righthandman Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 I've never weighed in at more than 195lbs, and never benched more than 280. Further, I wasn't benching AT ALL at the time I attained my red nail cert. I feel like having pliable/supple shoulders helps with providing enough leverage thru the kink & sweep, and a bigger bench correlates alot more directly to the crushdown. IMHO, in the world of steel bending (ALL styles included), NOTHING beats a strong wrist, and an even stronger WILL 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EJ Livesey Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 I honestly don't believe there is a correlation other than crushing power. DO bending is a combination of EVERYTHING in your upper body not just delts and pec. A strong kink will come from a strong back. Take a look at all the top benders, they have relatively thick backs and shoulders. EVERY piece of steel I have ever touched, I have been able to move on the kink. But there have been a million times the crush has stopped me. I have/had a flat bench max in the low 400s and was stronger in DO when I was in the mid 300s. Me having a strong bench killed my flexability but my crush is stronger. Main point, to get strong in bending you must bend. Plain and simple. There are things you can do to mildly help increase that strength. A marathon bending session will make you more sore than any day in a gym. That speaks volumes to me. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 I had actually had to back off from pressing and arm work to cert the red. When my chest and biceps are at their biggest, my flexibility is horrible. I struggled for a really long time to get a 7 inch bar under my chin. My first red nail bends were at or below my chest level. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diesel Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 i don't believe there is much correlation. I seem to recall that many years ago, Clay Edgin had written an article on the correlation between deadlifts and DO bending. I think this is more accurate to my personal accomplishments, as I bend with a lot of traps and lats. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
climber511 Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 I was never much of a DO bender and had a non existent bench press at the time I was bending. I never had enough flexibility to achieve the high under the chin position and I think it was why I only went so far (6' Red) - the same place I ended up Reverse - all my DO bends were done mid chest level. I think the only thing I had going for me was my wrists - my Reverse was always stopped by my arm etc strength - my wrists were still good. Big DO bends seem to be "upper body" - like the entire upper body! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
climber511 Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 I was never much of a DO bender and had a non existent bench press at the time I was bending. I never had enough flexibility to achieve the high under the chin position and I think it was why I only went so far (6' Red) - the same place I ended up Reverse - all my DO bends were done mid chest level. I think the only thing I had going for me was my wrists - my Reverse was always stopped by my arm etc strength - my wrists were still good. Big DO bends seem to be "upper body" - like the entire upper body! A 6" red at mid chest level is actually an impressive bend DO, and a VERY impressive bend reverse. Just sayin Thank you - I got tore up pretty quickly and didn't bend for very long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evan Raftopoulos Posted December 4, 2015 Author Share Posted December 4, 2015 thanks guys, it's good to hear everyone's perspective on this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Pizzo Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 When I started bending I really felt like bench press strength and bending ability had a noticeable correlation...especially since the day after a bending workout my chest and triceps were sore in a similar way from bench pressing. However I'm fairly certain there are other muscles perhaps back and traps like mentioned above that are much more important...though I'm not so sure because my deadlift isn't very strong these days...well neither is my bench lol...but especially not my deadlift. As far as my max, I'm not exactly sure since I haven't done a bench press workout or any conventional weight training for that matter in quite a long time, but I know from testing occasionally over the last two years I'm still capable of doing 275 with no spotter for at least 3 reps...sometimes more. I'm also not really sure what bend of mine would be considered my best for a comparison, but I've completed 5.5" Reds in doubles, and 3/8" g2's also in doubles...maybe one of those? I've also kinked shorter Bastards than 5.5'" but can never finish any of them off. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Ruby Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 I feel that strength will make more of a difference in braced bends. Look at the top shoe bender he dominated some shoes not thought possible and he was a pro strongman with elite level strength. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EJ Livesey Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 I feel that strength will make more of a difference in braced bends. Look at the top shoe bender he dominated some shoes not thought possible and he was a pro strongman with elite level strength. Bergmann was a monster. Rumor had it, he started bending shoes to pass the time while he healed from some injury. Pec if I remember correctly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diesel Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 i don't believe there is much correlation. I seem to recall that many years ago, Clay Edgin had written an article on the correlation between deadlifts and DO bending. I think this is more accurate to my personal accomplishments, as I bend with a lot of traps and lats. This is Clay's article that I had remembered reading from way back when: http://www.dieselcrew.com/articles-pdf/claybending.pdf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Sharkey Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 I had actually had to back off from pressing and arm work to cert the red. When my chest and biceps are at their biggest, my flexibility is horrible. I struggled for a really long time to get a 7 inch bar under my chin. My first red nail bends were at or below my chest level. Still one of the best things I've ever seen I feel that strength will make more of a difference in braced bends. Look at the top shoe bender he dominated some shoes not thought possible and he was a pro strongman with elite level strength. Bergmann was a monster. Rumor had it, he started bending shoes to pass the time while he healed from some injury. Pec if I remember correctly. That duude. Where did he go. We never saw anything other than shoes, but I heard he was working on it. The shoes were crazzzzzzzy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Rinderle Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 Technique and flexibility are 1 and 2 for DO bends. But if you have those... a big bench sure isn't going to hurt ya. All other things being equal, I'll bet on the guy with a 400lb bp over the guy with a 225 bp. Overall upper body strength helps any bend, but so many factors come into play: technique, flexibility, length of your arms, tendon strength, pain tolerance, being half crazy... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucasraymond Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 Technique and flexibility are 1 and 2 for DO bends. But if you have those... a big bench sure isn't going to hurt ya. All other things being equal, I'll bet on the guy with a 400lb bp over the guy with a 225 bp. Overall upper body strength helps any bend, but so many factors come into play: technique, flexibility, length of your arms, tendon strength, pain tolerance, being half crazy... Rindo....you're alive? Good to see you on here! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Rinderle Posted December 19, 2015 Share Posted December 19, 2015 Still kickin. Just a little slower and not quite as high. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evan Raftopoulos Posted December 19, 2015 Author Share Posted December 19, 2015 Hmmm maybe being half crazy and pain tolerance are 1 and 2 :P 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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